Feeling awkward/mean excluding a friend

[Livelifelaughter]

I have a group of friends that I holiday with. One in the group isn't particularly fit, she won't do much that is active and the rest of us like to hire bikes, go on a hike etc, go for a run, swim in a lake. Usually this isn't a problem as we will go on a City break. However, we have been doing more active trips which we invite her to...the trouble is we seem to go through a charade of her saying how excited she is to go and then backing out. In the last couple of years it's happened a lot. She will never say it's because she doesn't like the activity. An example is that a few of us went hiking in Iceland, she made an excuse not to come saying she would have loved to go hiking there. It's really annoying, there's a list of things she would "definitely do" but has turned down, such as Hiking Mont Blanc, Skiing. Because she doesn't say that it's not her thing or similar we go through looking at hotels to include her, working around dates to include her and then she will say she can't go, not that she has changed her mind but that she can't go often with no reason or a fairly lump one.
Anyway, now we are arranging trips without her and I feel quite mean about doing so. I don't really know how to deal with it.. Any suggestions...

This is true but somewhat harsh. This is her friendship group supposedly. Friends support you in solving your problems, they have your back

She's an adult. Friends have your back when you talk to them about your problems. If you're in denial, that keeps it your problem. It's not up to others to take responsibility for you, if you don't talk about what's wrong. OP has tried saying to her 'This probably isn't your thing', giving her the option of saying 'I wish I could do it but I have xyz issue', but until she does, it's not up to anybody else to involve themselves. You may think that's harsh, @eatreadsleeprepeat , but that's how adult life works. We are all responsible for ourselves, and hopefully safe in the knowledge that our friends will have our back if we go the them with a problem.

Maybe she doesn’t particularly want to get fitter? Maybe she’s just signing up to the holidays because she wants to go on holiday with you all still.

She might be thinking – ok I guess I can just ‘train’ in order to participate in the holiday with my friends. Then having to later cancel when inevitably she hasn’t become a whole different person with different interests and a different body.

Whatever the motivation, you’re excluding her. It’s obviously not that important to you as a group that she feels included.

People can say ‘oh but why doesn’t she just say so’, but I mean – you all know this as a group already. And if she already isn’t being considered at the planning stage she may well not feel like she is in much of a position to voice her thoughts about it – no doubt she already senses she’s on shaky ground.

Do you do other stuff together apart from the holidays? How do you all know each other?

People can say ‘oh but why doesn’t she just say so’, but I mean – you all know this as a group already

Well, no, they don't because she keeps actually telling them that she wants to do the whole holiday. Are they just supposed to override her words because she's dropped out before?

This thread is bananas. Pretty much everybody would accept that it's annoying when someone keeps saying they'll do something, then lets you down. But not in this situation?

Do you ever do anything she would enjoy?

You're not trying to include her at all

She's possibly embarrassed as she knows she can't keep up, and it's just not her thing ( which is why less fit). If she was into running, gym etc. She'd be fitter, but clearly she's not. Accept that and it's fine not to invite her to hols including activities she'd rather not do. You are actually probably making it more awkward for her by inviting her to things that are not her vibe, so don't. City breaks only.

I agre with @Watchkeys this is all a bit nuts. Some people on here think we she be planning the holiday around what the friend wants to do even though there's no element of her doing the planning, or most of the group go on a trip they aren't really keen on doing to keep the friend happy.
@Nanny0gg seems to think we do nothing to accommodate her...erm we do other things together like city breaks, day trips... cinema, you know normal things.
The friend is a grown adult, not a child we "take" things to or an elderly frail person...
Then there's the group on the thread who suggest we ask what's really wrong....we'll bit hard when she says she can do X y z but still backs out. I agree with the poster who said being fit probably isn't her thing and that's fair enough.

Also agree with pp who said it's probably just an opportunity to go on holiday and she has the intention to get in shape but then doesn't really prioritise it or isn't in to that part.

Having read the replies I think two things

1. Be firm about the commitment from her and obviously everyone saying it takes a lot of time and effort to book hotels etc and plans route so if you say you're going please commit. Ask for some form of deposit. But plan the trip and then mention so it's not behind her back.

1. Ask her to plan and organise something she would like to do.

Have you been direct with her (sorry if you've already said this)? Have you said 'Look, Beryl, we want to go on a skiing trip and we're worried because the last 3 times we organised something, you pulled out at the last minute and it buggered up the plans. Are you absolutely sure this time?'

That might be worth a go. But definitely money upfront, even if it's just a down payment. That makes sense for the whole group anyway, doesn't it?

You sound utterly insufferable op tbh with an empathy deficit. I hope she finds better friends.

It sounds as though she wants to stay part of the group and do stuff with her friends, so agrees to things that, realistically, she knows she can't or won't want to do. You've clearly worked all of that out for yourself, so it's no mystery why she keeps pulling out. I think you need to look for things you can all do (e.g. the city breaks) but if you want to do something more adventurous as a sub-group, be honest with her. If you value the friendship, I mean.

I feel your pain . A few friends and I like to walk , regularly 6 - 10 miles and another friend of a friend insists on coming along but can't keep up so one person is always left to bring up the rear with her or on route we have to find a cafe / pub to leave her and a couple of times have to take her back to the car .
I wish people would just accept their limitations .

I can't believe you're in your 50s when I read your posts I think 20s.

You're old enough to know what you're doing, your comments about her being average and you're all above average because you put the effort in sound smug and condescending. If this was about looks people would say the same but because it's about fitness it's okay.

You say your fine with fitness not being a priority to her but then you call her average like it's a bad thing.

This.

I really don't think you should give up your active trips - it's amazing you're so fit in your 50s (same age as me).

If she doesn't come or drops out, I'm not sure what the issue is - just make sure everyone is paying for themselves.

I have a couple of groups I go away with and for various reasons we all now book our own travel and generally get single rooms. If someone can't come or has form for saying they will come then dropping out, then nobody else's finances are impacted.

I think I'm a bit like your friend @Livelifelaughter although I'm not a persistent canceller.

I've got a group of friends who love walking.
I don't. I don't mind going for a walk but I don't want to walk 20 miles, rain or shine which is what happens on our weekends away.

I sometimes do the walk and sometimes don't depending on how I'm feeling and what the weather is like.

I've had some miserable experiences where I've really struggled to keep up - they walk faster than me and I think there's an unwritten rule that one person takes it in turns to keep me company.

In the end I choose to go away with them because otherwise I wouldn't see them. We all live miles from each other so it's not easy to meet up often.

Can your friend come on the holidays with the understanding that she doesn't have to participate in the activities?

Maybe when planning the trips, the trick is to explore and clearly state the bail out option when planning.

So if you're planning a hike up Mont Blanc or whatever you say "And if anyone doesn't want to do the full hike, there's this lovely looking hostelry a couple of miles up that you can get the cable car directly down from and enjoy the spa at the hotel for a couple of hours." That might work as long as she doesn't expect others to compromise on their activities.

I do get it - I love skiing and sometimes go with friends, but for various reasons I'm slower and less able to keep going for long periods than they are. We agree on a cafe to meet on the slopes, I do what I'm capable of and we meet there at various times. Everyone is happy, but I don't expect them to babysit me and nor would I want them to.

I think you’re misunderstanding the ambitiousness of their trips! The usual approach to ‘hiking Mont Blanc’ is 170 km, goes through three countries, with a lot of ascent and descent, and takes a week or ten days! It’s not like climbing a small individual mountain with a cafe halfway, or choosing easier ski routes.

Ah ok - you can tell I've never hiked up Mont Blanc ( and nor would I want to).

Maybe the best compromise is that you come up with dates and options without her then open up to the full group including her. If she wants to and is free to join- great here's the links for the flights and the hotels for her to book her place. If it doesn't suit - oh well unfortunately those dates suit the rest of the group.

It is frustrating- we arrange a trip and one of the group only attends every 3-4 years as she says she can't afford it.But our trips are fairly modest and she could join our monthly savings plan and put in £30 so the majority of the costs would be covered. She is quite restricted on dates so sometimes we end up with a less than ideal date as we are trying to include her and then she doesn't come.

If you're hiking up Mont Blanc could you not suggest she gets the cable cars up to the top, then she can still be part of it. She can sit in the restaurant up top enjoying the view from the viewing platform whilst you hike up. I found all that just from Google by the way.

There are alternatives and maybe you could suggest them instead of excluding her.

There are alternatives and maybe you could suggest them instead of excluding her.

Or may be she could suggest them herself?

The problem, it seems, is not that this friend can't do the activity, but that she insists that she can and will, then drops out at the last minute.

If she was honest about her capabilities, maybe they could reach some sort of compromise. "I don't fancy the hike, but I could join you for a couple of days sightseeing at the end of the week."

Exactly which simply suggests that op prefers bullying by exclusion rather than genuinely seeking a way for the whole group to enjoy a trip instead.

They are an aging bunch of hikers in their 50s not Olympic athletes!!

You would think they would have the maturity and emotional intelligence not to indulge in mean girls politics at this advanced age. This thread is thoroughly depressing and makes me glad for my lovely friends!

I'm no understanding the mean girl politics here.

They are in their 50s so may have a limited length of time to enjoy these more active holidays. Say 5 out of the 6 are capable and want to do the adventure holiday, should they not go because the 6th person can't/won't?

It’s not an either or situation though is it.. that’s too black and white. We have a few mates that have had hip replacements etc at a young age - and just work around it. They go to the spa, sightseeing and swimming etc. We discuss as group what everyone wants to do to get the most out of it like normal adults and book something that suits everyone! This works well in Switzerland, Austria, Norway, Sweden etc. it’s about communication.

Having limited time to enjoy these things and being older means we should value our dearest friends and adventures together more, not playing stupid games lile a 15yr old. I am fitter than you nonsense.

The fittest person in our group died of cancer - that’s when you are really value decent friends.

As I understand it, the OP means ‘hiking Mont Blanc’, not climbing it, which takes ten days or so, and dipping in and out of three countries. It’s not like climbing Snowdon/Yr Wyddfa in a few hours while someone less fit takes the train and meets them at the cafe. Even climbing Mont Blanc is a multi-day trip and needs serious fitness and generally a guide.

If this is the level the OP and her friends function at, for holidays they train seriously for, their uncommitted friend has no business on those trips without training. No guide would take her up Mont Blanc. She’d be endangering herself and others. She clearly realises this herself. What’s annoying the OP is her saying she wants to and then pulling out when she hasn’t trained and they’ve altered dates and found accommodation that includes her.

It’s not remotely ‘mean girls’ — that’s the whiny element of Mn, which sees ‘cliques’ every ten feet. They just like different leisure pursuits. I hill walk and climb with friends, but most of the group have moved way beyond me and become ultra-fit, doing triathlons and ultramarathons. I choose not to devote my time to that which means we see less of one another because I can’t function at that level. We’re still friends!