What’s a “normal” level of anger?

[wishfulthinking2]

As the subject says... I’m trying to get my head round what’s normal when it comes to anger.

DP seems to be very stressed recently and as part of that he seems easily angered which is putting me on edge. I'd really appreciate some objective opinions though as I'm aware that I'm not a remotely angry person (I don’t really even like raised voices) so there's part of me wondering whether I'm being overly sensitive.

Some examples of things that are happening:

• If something breaks, spills, is lost etc., it's very common for DP to start swearing, shouting and looking peed off. On a bad day he may also start being rough with whatever it is, banging things about etc.
• For example, last week DP was already stressed and then couldn’t get a zip on a bag to close. From the next room I could hear DP getting annoyed, raised voice, saying for f's sake this f'ing bag is sh*t, followed by loads of thumping sounds as he presumably started banging the bag on the worktop to try and force the zip to work, and finally heard the bag being thrown (literally) into the bin.
• If something in life isn’t going to plan, it’s again the same as the above. Swearing and a raised voice is common, e.g if we take a wrong turn on a journey. If it’s particularly bad though then he may start slamming doors etc too. For example I avoid doing DIY with him as if it doesn't go to plan the furniture will get thumped about, there’ll be swearing, I’ve seen tools being thrown back in the toolbox, a bag get kicked etc.

The anger isn’t directed at me, it’s at the object or thing that’s going wrong - but if I speak to him while he’s in that mood he does tend to get snappy with me, so I normally just try and leave him to it. 5-15 minutes after he’s been like this he’ll normally have calmed down and want to carry on like nothing happened.

If I do bring up something that's bothering me or even just go quieter because I’ve been upset by one of the behaviours above, DP seems to get annoyed with me. It’s not unusual at all for him to roll his eyes, shake his head, or sigh and say something like “oh, now what”. He tells me I’m going on at him when I may have only been speaking for a few minutes. Leaving the room and ending the conversation in response is quite common too. It’s like because he’s already stressed I’m adding extra stress that he can’t deal with.

These things aren’t happening every day but are often enough that I feel tense when things start going wrong. I’ve tried to speak to DP and told him that I'm finding it hard as I feel like life / me are annoying him a lot… but he normally just says something along the lines of “so what if I’m getting annoyed, I am allowed to feel annoyed”

I have no idea how to even respond to that as of course he’s allowed to have feelings… I just know that it makes me feel tense and uncomfortable when DP starts to behave that way. I’ve tried to explain that to DP too but he then says “so you’re allowed to be upset by it but I’m not allowed to be annoyed?”… at which point I get totally confused.

Am I letting this bother me more than I should?

Don’t know but I think I’m with the same man 🤣 I’ve never seen anything so accurately describe him. It really bothers me, especially now we have a toddler who often copies and recently he seems to struggle with our toddler’s behaviour (he can be a nightmare at times) but instead of dealing with it calmly he will make the whole situation worse by getting so stressed out by it

Same here

Very frustrating and an utter turn off I can tell you that

He's triggering you fight or flight instinct and no it's not an over reaction. He needs to work on managing his frustration. I'd walk out of earshot every time. Explain to him that you accept he's allowed to be angry but you're allowed to be distressed by it and so you will be going elsewhere until he's calmed down.
Although I'm not sure I could live with this if it was a permanent way of being.

Too much and around a child who is already copying I'd be having strong words.

My exH was like that.

Note the 'ex'.

You end up being on edge and walking on eggshells all the time, and the aggressiveness with inanimate objects is concerning. The worry is that it might be you next. My ex progressed to punching walls in a blinding rage and yes, he did eventually start to hit me as well.

Sorry to hear you're in the same situation @vwd and @coxesorangepippin. I agree that it just makes the whole situation worse - I also have a challenging DC and now instead of just having DC to worry about I'm worrying about DP's reaction to the stress too!

@Pashazade I am starting to wonder if I can keep living with it - not only is it making me tense when things are going wrong but it's making me reluctant to speak at times too as I can't be bothered stressing him out more and dealing with any fall out.

@FruitBowlCrazy - I'm so sorry that happened to you, I hope you're doing well now. I did find out over Christmas that DP used to punch walls when he was younger which isn't great as it made me realise this is a longer-standing issue and not just current stress levels. His family have never mentioned it before, I think it just sort of slipped out

Me ex was like this too. Note the ex!

I felt tense and on edge whenever things started to go wrong as I'd be waiting for him to start. He never hit me and I'd think 'but he doesn't hit me so it's not that bad'.

Having been out of it for a while, I can absolutely see how much impact it had on me. It is not nice to live on the edge or having to work out what you can do to minimise him blowing up at things. You're not responsible for his behaviour.

I'm another one whose ex you could be describing.
Banging about, smash something if he couldn't work something, shouting and balling.
Mine would also scream in frustration like a toddler, full on screaming 🙄
Really unattractive and I too walked on eggshells.
Note he's an ex, we're still living together at the moment and he's still screaming but it doesn't affect me anymore, I just eye roll and think "what a wanker" 😂
My advice, get out now

I’ve tried to explain that to DP too but he then says “so you’re allowed to be upset by it but I’m not allowed to be annoyed?”… at which point I get totally confused.

He's a violent, angry impatient man with a short fuse. He's also incapable of talking to you in an emotionally intelligent way or empathising with you.

What's the point of him?

Yet another here who you could be describing my ex to a tee.
He never hit me, but other emotionally abused behaviour I was too blind to see at the time came to light when he became my ex.
He'd easily get violent with objects of his frustration, often damaging them in the process. This included a number of very expensive objects.
After years of putting up with it I was a ghost of myself from walking on egg shells so as not to do anything, or for us to come into contact with anything that could frustration him.
He always admitted he had " an anger problem", but point blank refused to get help with it.

I will never put up with behaviour like that again. I feel so much younger and "lighter" now I'm not worrying about him getting frustrated at a shoe lace keep coming undone or such stupidity

Bet he manages to control the anger around everyone else?

Was he like this before DC? Is this another man angry that he isn’t getting all the attention anymore?

I would probably start planning to leave OP so DC could grow up without this angry man thumping around the house. Does he ruin days out for you all?

Unless you think he would try anger management and you would feel safe asking him about it? But it sounds like he wouldn’t?

💐

I couldn't stay with someone like this or even be friends with them

Even if it's not intimidating, it's annoying, tiring etc and you will be walking on eggshells.

Tbh I do think it's a sign of worse things being possible.

If they can't see anything wrong and just say "everyone gets angry sometimes", that's worse. Do I get angry? Yes. Humans do get angry sometimes.

Do I chuck stuff about? No. Do I punch walls? Hell no.

DP seems to be very stressed recently and as part of that he seems easily angered which is putting me on edge.

and

These things aren’t happening every day but are often enough that I feel tense when things start going wrong.

were enough to make me say, that this level of anger is too much.
You shouldn't be 'tip-toeing about' in your own home.

Once you got on to
and now instead of just having DC to worry about I'm worrying about DP's reaction to the stress too!
and
I am starting to wonder if I can keep living with it - not only is it making me tense when things are going wrong but it's making me reluctant to speak at times too

Then that is getting into the territory of Emotional abuse, and for the dc to witness that, is also abusive.

You should not have to live like that, and you need to have that discussion with him that you are not prepared to live in fear of saying something, and of course, mean it.

Thank you so much to everybody for sharing your experiences and thoughts, it really helps to read them through.

I definitely recognise the descriptions of trying to manage things to minimise any blow-up's, to avoid things that could cause frustration etc... when DP is stressed I often find myself considering what the right thing to say or not say is to avoid making it worse and will try to deal with anything stressful myself rather than passing the stress on. I have wondered whether I'm creating the eggshell feeling by doing this and whether I need to just try to carry on like normal and let him storm out etc. if he wants to... but it's hard to do that when it ends up just taking over the whole evening if it does blow up.

I'd say he has some control of the anger in front of others... I don't think I've ever seen him throwing or slamming objects in front of anybody else for example (although I guess I wouldn't have seen it if I'm not there!), but he does sometimes show his stressy / snappy side in front of others if something isn't going to plan.

He has vaguely acknowledged in the past that he gets angry easily and stressed easily... but he's never taken any steps to do anything about it. I think I could try suggesting anger management during a calm conversation - I don't honestly think he'd do it, but it might still be worth suggesting to at least feel like I've tried everything.

I would be prepared to say and mean that I can't live like this anymore - it helps to have that conversation just from talking it through on this thread and being more sure that I'm not over-reacting or being difficult by having an issue with the behaviours.

To provide a full picture - DP does pay his share of the bills, does his share of the housework, doesn't drink or take drugs, has given me no reason to think he's unfaithful, can be kind and generous when he's not stressed... so there are positives too. I'm not saying they cancel out the impact of the angry behaviours at all but feel like it's relevant to mention as I guess that contributes to why I hope things will get better.

Even murderers can have a nice side, so don't be tricked into thinking that his milder side makes up for bad behaviour. Good behaviour doesn't make points to spend on bad behaviour.

You're not overreacting or being difficult. You can't cure his behaviour by adjusting your own. You can make yourself as small and compliant as possible and all that will happen is you'll be diminished and he'll continue to railroad everything with his behaviour.

Look at how unfair he is being - he's allowed to let the smallest thing send him into an orgy of unpleasantness because of his feelings. But are you allowed to affect his day with your feelings? No, your feelings are unacceptable to him.

Some people have a worse temper than others. That's true. Anger isn't inherently wrong. It's a normal human emotion. What's wrong is letting that emotion affect others very badly and then telling them to put up and shut up about it. He doesn't even have the good grace to apologise. He'd rather walk off and blank you, which is incredibly disrespectful to you.

I think you should leave. He's already proven himself to be thoroughly unpleasant. It doesn't matter that he's nice some of the time. He should be considerate of your feelings ALL the time.

You are not over reacting, tell him he needs to stop this and he needs to learn some emotional regulation skills

Thanks @WolvesDiscoandBoogaloo - that's really helpful as I've never thought of it that way around the double standards of him being able to shout and thump about whenever he wants to, but I'm expected to not have an emotional reaction to it and if I do it's "ridiculous" or I'm "making a big deal of everything". I stopped showing if his behaviour bothered me as I quickly realised that just made things worse and didn't get me anywhere.

I honestly don't know if he's meaning to shut me down or whether he just can't handle stress at all - which includes the stress of my emotions and how that makes him feel. I think that's part of the confusion as I've always wanted to be empathetic if he's just genuinely struggling and hoped things would improve if stress reduced. But I think I'm realising now that there's no magical point when that's going to happen so I need to start speaking up again.

Does he even feel bad about it?

I know his behaviour is awful but I couldn't help laughing at him too. Honestly a grown man having a strop because he can't work a zipper. Oh no nothing can go wrong in his life, the world owes him. What an idiot.

It is 100% a double standard. That's a massive power imbalance between the two of you, which is dangerous territory.

He might well be stressed. But I'm sure you find his behaviour or other things stressful and you don't take that out on anyone else.

Maybe on the odd occasion, everyone might get a bit snappy. But decent people don't feel entitled to take their moods out on other people regularly.

@SleepPrettyDarling - At face value he doesn't seem to feel bad about it - he nearly always just wants to carry on like him losing his temper never happened and if I do say something he reacts like I'm in the wrong and creating a problem by making a big deal out of it. (Which is why I really wanted the sanity check of this thread).

There's only a couple of occasions where after he's calmed down he's shown signs that he knows he shouldn't have behaved that way, and normally then he becomes quite insecure - asking if I still love him, still want the relationship etc. In those moments if I say to him about his behaviour he becomes very uncomfortable and acknowledges what he's been like but struggles to talk about it - so I do wonder if deep down he knows and that's why he feels worse when I bring it up.

I think the problem is that some of his behaviours are not that weird or unusual or even unacceptable, and so it becomes a bit of a slippery slope as you try to find the line.

eg, getting a bit frustrated - swearing under his breath in another room when he can't get something to work etc, not that big a deal. Probably not ideal, but unlikely, as a standalone, to be a huge issue in itself.

But then it gets murkier - throwing things? Definitely not okay and of course, whether he means to or not, it puts you on edge because what if he throws something at you etc?

Swearing and getting visibly angry when you try to raise an issue - again, definitely not okay. I mean, obviously, it's hard to say if the things are fair or if you're doing it in a confrontational way, but broadly speaking, I think it's likely that he's very quickly shutting you down.

The only upside is that it sounds like ehe's had this issue and it's not just you. Hear me out - I know it doesn't sound like an upside and I concede, it's a SMALL upside. But here it is: it suggests he genuinely has an issue with anger management rather being about wanting to control you. Which means IF he is willing to do the work, he can get through this. DH had extensive therapy before we got married after I told him I wasn't going to marry him if he didn't get in control of his temper. He went back a few years later when he threw something and I pointed out that had our then2 year old walked through the door at that moment, he could have been badly hurt. We have had no problems since.

As a peri-menopausal, stressed woman, I have been lightly considering seeking some therapy myself. HRT has made me less volatile, but I can feel my irritation levels being high and I'm conscious it's not fair on DH or the DC. There are better ways to express my frustration at having to ask everyone to do the same thing 400 times!

If he's not willing to get help in managing his emotional reactions then I think you should think on how you feel about living like this full time from now on. With not talking about his outbursts, not acknowledging them and not letting them effect you. Not letting them effect you may mean leaving the room/house when he does this. And in return he should not question your reaction to his outbursts. I'm honestly not sure how feasible that is long term though.

In my experience he was not willing to help himself, even though he acknowledged there was a problem.
There were only so many "I'm sorry, please don't leave me" pitty parties I could take from him after an outburst and him realising I had to remove myself from the space for my own wellbeing.
I found the atmosphere during and afterwards knacking. Never mind the constantly on edge feeling of the potential of an outburst.

I do think some people could learn to control their outbursts, but they have to want to. Noone else can make their emotional reactions less impacting my experience.

I had a lot of that behaviour with my ex. I very rarely said anything because then he would turn on me. It often felt very performative and as if he was saying “look at me having problems, come and offer sympathy and help”.

I took to distancing myself and just acting like I was deaf, but in the long run that didn’t make the marriage any better.

Ive just come from a Finding Freedom meeting this morning. The course leader said we all have feelings, good and bad, but it’s how we decide to act that is the difference.

So with his argument you could say back “you are allowed to have feelings of anger/frustration - but you don’t need to act angry/annoyed/frustrated” I’m allowed to be annoyed at your behaviour, and if I choose to tell you calmly that I find it stressful, that is a reasonable action on my part.

The feelings are Ok, but we can choose how we act.