I've lost my friend to a narcissist

[Thingumabob]

A good friend, one of the very few I have, has started a relationship with a narcissist. There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he's a narcissist; he has all the traits: arrogance & utter self-centredness he imagines he conceals behind a facade of likeability and bonhomie that I find sickening. He's helping her in her career, and is also working to separate her from her friends - at least, those who don't buy his BS.

I'm dumbfounded because my friend is the last person I'd ever imagine falling for a narcissist. She's smart, funny, warm - and so emotionally intelligent; 3 months ago I'd have laughed at anyone who suggested she might give this guy the time of day. But he's clearly found a vulnerability, as narcissists do.

My problem is, what do I do? Half of me wants to run 10 miles from all this, but I can't as we all work for the same company. And half of me wants to rescue her, but I can't because she's drunk too much Kool-Aid. I tell her straight he's a narcissist. We've both known him for years, and identified him as a complete asshole, but now she tells me I don't understand him. I've lost my friend, haven't I?

how difficult it is to make or keep good friends, an issue I'm having direct experience of right now, hence this thread.

could it be that this very thread answers why you find it difficult? Your friend, an adult, has made the decision to embark on a relationship with this man. They see each other inside work and outside work.

You despise the man and have a very difficult working relationship with him. And you just can’t get over your friend likes him, really likes him. I suspect you see it as a betrayal.

When in reality - i very much doubt she gives a hoot

@plumberdrain You're forgetting that my friend despised him too, for many years, because he is, in actual fact, despicable. I think I've made quite a few references to that, plus I've given some idea of the kind of guy he is, but since that doesn't fit your notion that everyone else is just fine & I'm the only one at fault here, you ignore it. They say the tabloid journalist's mantra is "First simplify, then exaggerate." Yours as a MN poster seems to be "First disbelieve, then blame." I suppose it makes you feel wise.

But she doesn't find him despicable now! That's the point. You either make your peace with it or lose your friend.
It is worth bearing in mind many people are totally different at home than how they are at work. He could be lovely behind closed doors.

I wouldn't consider someone who didn't bother to call me directly, let alone visit me at home, when I was off long-term sick a good friend at all. I'd call them a work colleague I was on friendly terms with in the office.

I also wouldn't be surprised if your friend has secretly always liked him and just went along with the "isn't he awful" chat because it was part of the office gossip culture to slag him off behind his back. You don't just switch from despising someone to dating them.

this

You're forgetting that my friend despised him too, for many years,

and now she most definitely… doesn’t!!

because he is, in actual fact, despicable. in your opinion. Not hers

You are so dismissive of your friend’s ability to make her own decisions on someone

out of interest… did you come back from your 3 mo the sick leave to discover they were together?

I've made quite a few references to that,

it is irrelevant what your friend used to think

what is relevant is what your friend thinks now. However you are utterly dismissive of this reality

It is becoming very clear why you have struggled so much in life to make and maintain friendships as per your other post.

You are dismissive; think you know better; and very defensive. Oh and despite the majority of posters telling you otherwise / you are doggedly arguing that we are all wrong

Agree. It doesn't matter what your colleague said about him previously, she's clearly got to know a different side of him – or she secretly disagreed with your opinion of him all along but didn't dare speak up because she feared she'd be on the receiving end of the same vitriol. Keep your enemies close, etc. You can keep dismissing her choice all you want but she's not going to dump him just because you think she should.

@Thingumabob seriously. I said upthread that if he's telling lies about work related things it is bad and you need to protect yourself from that. Your colleague (because that is what she is, you have virtually no contact as friends) is unaccountably now loved up with someone she had despised for 20+ years. You are not going to change that and the angrier you get about it, the worse it will reflect on you, honestly. She doesn't want to hear your opinion that he is a narcissist, she doesn't want to hear anything other than that he is Sir Galahad and if he is actually Hannibal Lecter, it won't change that position.

The only thing you can control here is your response and terribly, overtly angry and critical is not going to work. Step away from her (at least for now) make sure anything that he says about you at work that is incorrect is challenged. There is nothing else that you can do.

She possibly fancied him all the years you were slagging him off,but played along with disliking him.

Or maybe she thinks he just needed "the right woman " and that's her.

@plumberdrain What is it with your banging on about my friendship 'only' being in the context of work? So what? I've known this person for 30 years. I went to her wedding; I visited her in hospital when she was ill; we've been through thick and thin together. Could you just accept that, in a post that says 'A good friend', that she is just that? Sure, I was disappointed she didn't call when I was off sick, but that doesn't mean she wasn't, isn't or is no longer going to be my friend. This is what some people's friendships look like; sorry we don't live in the same street and pop in on each other for a cup of sugar; busy lives, distance & lack of money mean that sometimes this is what you've got.

Majority? Just under half of the posts on this thread are suggesting I may be reading it wrong, but the majority of them are yours, @plumberdrain so you fell just short of giving full support to your own opinion and calling it the consensus.

So far on this thread asking for advice re losing a good friend to an unpleasant guy - the sort of guy there are literally thousands of threads about on MN - responses have included:

• You're wrong
• You don't understand narcissism
• You're angry
• You're possessive
• Are you sure she's a real friend?
• You're letting your friend down
• It's your fault for not calling out his behaviour
• It's your fault they're together
• You're being rude
• You're unqualified to judge him
• You love drama
• You don't have a problem
• Butt out
• He might be a nice fun guy
• Your nose is out of joint bc noone called when you were ill (gleaned from another thread)
• Stop banging on about Narcs, I'm bored of them
• Stop slagging off her bf
• You're the narcissist
• You're dismissive
• You're pathetically jealous
• You flounced
• I doubt your friend gives a hoot

I dunno, is that about average for MN these days?

But thank you @pickledandpuzzled @Atethehalloweenchocs @Uricon2 @Quitelikeit @Theunamedcat @RosaCaramella @HebeJeeby @GoldDuster @Spirallingdownwards @Pinkbonbon @TotallyForgettableForNow @Bookworm1111

^^ this a thousand times this.

My ex isolated me from friends. Makes it sooo hard to leave when you have no support. When I finally left people who knew us came out and said they could see he was abusive and wished they could have helped. Just being present and available when she finally recognises him for what he is and needs to check it out is what you have to do. Grey rock him don't set him off stay present and non offensive.

Also if she ever does ask your opinion on something tell her you don't think he's behaving great but get her to ask on here rather than outright slag him off yourself. She may take a few incidents to leave him and may struggle to stay friends with you if you have full on said leave he's horrible. Mumsnet will tell her strait and will say it with so many voices it can't be chalked up to one person's dislike of a partner.

Okay, in the light of your response here, I have a question, OP: how did your friend break the news to you that she's now dating a man she knows you absolutely detest? Not a trick question, I'm genuinely interested now you've said exactly how long you've known her.

Edited to add: Especially as, after 30 years of knowing each other, she must realise it's going to impact the two of you getting along in the future. So how did she word it?

I've known this person for 30 years. I went to her wedding; I visited her in hospital when she was ill; we've been through thick and thin together.

and also

our relationship takes place almost entirely in the context of our shared workplace. We don't live close to each other. So yes, during my illness we texted but didn’t meet or speak, sadly.

So you can see why your view of the friendship is somewhat… contradictory

I visited her in hospital when she was ill;

whereas she didn’t call you let alone visit you when you were off on sick leave for 3 months

Do you perhaps view the friendship differently as to how she views the friendship

and likewise you view this man differently as to how she views this man

@Bookworm1111 She cried, and apologised. She said, I know you think he's an arsehole, and I know you're right, but I can't help it. He's been really nice to me and the sex is amazing. I hope this doesn't mess up our friendship.

I said, of course not. And I've done the grey rock thing. But now she's trying to persuade me that when he lies about me to my boss, I'VE got it all wrong.

So she does acknowledge that what you've said about him is correct! Might've been worth saying that in your OP, as it makes the criticism that she might not feel the same pretty redundant.

I would bat her line about not ruining the friendship back at her every time she tries to persuade you about his lies. Just say 'You know how you don't want this to mess up our friendship? Then please stop talking about this.'

You mentioned that you went to her wedding. Does that mean she's divorced now? How old are they both?

i love that you throw in She cried, and apologised. She said, I know you think he's an arsehole, and I know you're right, but I can't help it. He's been really nice to me and the sex is amazing

which is also just a touch contradictory to

We've both known him for years, and identified him as a complete asshole, but now she tells me I don't understand him.

and

We have both known this man for many years and, until a few months ago, we completely agreed he was a waste of space.

@Bookworm1111 my OP included this:

'We've both known him for years, and identified him as a complete asshole, but now she tells me I don't understand him'

Yes, @plumberdrain it IS a bit contradictory, isn't it? She thought he was an asshole, even as she fell for him, now she thinks the sun shines out of it, weird, huh? Well done for catching up, this is pretty much my whole problem, as explained in my first post - which btw you're not helping with at all, being obsessed with 'sniffing out inconsistencies' like a latter-day Columbo.

@Bookworm1111

😳 Bloody hell, plot twist!

Forget him being an arsehole, I couldn't be friends with her for THAT. I could not condone a friend cheating on their husband, no matter how much I cared for her.

you said when she told you she said she knew he was an arsehole!

she edited it out

but clearly it is bollox and the Op is just adding a load of stuff because we don’t all agree with her 😂

Thingumabob·Original·Today 20:43
@Bookworm1111 No, not divorced, they're both married & playing away

Why did you post this and then edit it out?