Help me communicate one thing with PDA partner

[Bunnyhair]

Edited to add: apologies for massive post!

I’m looking for advice from PDA and/or autistic people, or people in relationships with PDA / autistic people. Please don’t comment if you have no understanding of PDA, or have strong ideas about people using autism as an ‘excuse’.

I need help communicating something important in our relationship to my DH who is extremely sensitive to perceived criticism. I want him to stop offering to do things he will not do.

Background: my DH and DC are PDA. I didn’t realise DH was PDA until our DC was diagnosed. There was a lot that puzzled me about his behaviour but I could see that he had good intentions. Seeing what our DC has struggled with since birth, and his huge distress and frustration when he can’t do things he wants to be able to do, helps me understand what is going on fundamentally with my DH that he has been trying to work around for 40-odd years.

Life is extremely complex at home (to say the least) and I bear all the mental and practical load for everything. DH works at a job he dislikes to support us financially, as I can only work very limited hours around DC’s needs. Work takes all of his spoons. He needs to recharge in the evenings with his special interests, and often comes to bed late and sleeps late in the mornings.

The issue troubling me today is that DH said last night, ‘please don’t do any cleaning up, I’ll do it before I go to bed.’ I expressed thanks for this, though I knew he would not do it, and I’d come down in the morning to a mess. Which is exactly what happened. It happens a lot.

This gets to the core of an issue that is causing a lot of resentment for me.

There is seemingly no gentle enough way of saying, ‘thank you for offering to clean up - it means a lot to me that you recognise it needs doing, and that you don’t expect me to do it all myself. But I am going to do it, because it’s important to me that it gets done in a particular timeframe.’ Even this feels to him like an attack and makes him angry and defensive.

I have tried saying, ‘oh don’t worry, I’ll do it, it’s no trouble,’ but that doesn’t sit well with me and feels dishonest. I don’t want to give the impression that I want to do all of everything in the house single-handedly, that I somehow enjoy it. I don’t.

I have tried waiting until he gets up in the morning (invariably 2 hours after DC and I do) and saying, in the warmest tone I can muster, hey thanks for volunteering to clean up last night - it would be great if you could sort the kitchen. But this is both a demand and a reminder of something he hasn’t done, which can feel to him like a violent character assassination.

If he sees or hears me doing the washing up and remembers that he’d offered to do it, even THAT feels like an attack to him and he’ll have a go at me for not trusting him to do it when he’d said he would.

All I want is for him not to offer.

I want him to be able to sit with whatever discomfort it causes him that he can’t do this stuff, rather than making it my issue to manage, or requiring me to collude in the pretence that he can.

I don’t want to sneak around quietly doing the dishes and letting him take credit, like he’s Santa Claus. I want us to be able to be clear and honest about who does what and why. With no judgement! But with due acknowledgement and appreciation for what each of us does.

I have tried and tried for years, since learning about PDA, to say, I get it that you have executive function issues. I get it that you literally cannot do something if it feels like a demand or an expectation. What bothers me is not so much that you don’t do the thing, but that you insist that you will, and often insist that I don’t crack on and do it myself (presumably because seeing me do something you know you should be doing feels like a criticism / indirect demand?) - and then become extremely indignant and offended if I remind you even in the gentlest manner.

He is 100% not doing this on purpose. He wants to be able to do the things. But he can’t. And he can’t accept this about himself.

But I just want the fucking dishes done. I don’t want the extra emotional labour of relieving him of his guilt about not doing the dishes.

Can anyone suggest to me how I might communicate this to him in a way that won’t get his hackles up? Or do I just need to accept that this is another thing he can’t do, and work on letting it go?

It doesn’t come across in this post but we have a good relationship in so many ways. He supports me to pursue my interests and friendships and is loyal to a fault and extremely funny and an enormously loving and dedicated father. But daily life is a massive struggle and we are all on our knees with exhaustion.

I don’t think this will help OP, who is already struggling to work beyond her limits

@NDandMe a list would be perceived as a demand. In the case of the child in my class, even things like them KNOWING that it's lunchtime is perceived as a demand, eg They see that we are packing up and getting lunch boxes from the cloak room (ie 'it's lunchtime'). They will either fight/flee/freeze - usually at lunchtime they 'freeze' and can't move off their chair (literally clinging onto the legs and sort of hunching down to say 'don't touch me'). There has been no spoken demand, but they know from the actions of the children that there 'is' a demand..to eat lunch. This child will 'avoid' eating as it is seen as a demand...sometimes for a couple of days 😢 But then other days they will calmly pick up their lunch box and go to the hall 🤷‍♀️

I think you are being very accommodating by stating you wish to find a way not to lets his moods permeate you.

That makes me feel sad for you as you are essentially making sure everyone’s else’s needs are accommodated without actually anyone considering what your needs are.

He is lucky to have you but you should understand that his reactions border on the abusive side and that will impact and penetrate you regardless of what you do.

Was this meant for me? You're right, it 'should' depend on need but in reality LEAs who 'don't acknowledge' a condition just throw the EHCP referral back at you when it's sent in. We've been trying for 3 years and keep re-referring but are getting nowhere 😢 It's heartbreaking (and so bloody infuriating!) The SEND provision in the UK is appalling right now!

@OldBeyondMyYears oh my goodness, it is so heartening to hear from a teacher who understands and is trying everything. You are a star. My DC masks at school so nobody believed us for ages - but it all comes bubbling out at home. Thank you for making so much effort with your pupil - they will be able to sense it from you. PDAers are like emotional sniffer dogs, and can recognise when someone is trying to connect on their level. You will be making a difference.

OP, you have a great understanding of your partner and child's needs. You also have a good understanding of your own.

In short, your post seems to be about wanting your partner to understand your needs and asking how to communicate the in a way that won't be perceived by your parent net as a judgement or demand.

My suggestion is to have a 'content free' discussion about this. Perhaps saying the you'd like to problem solve with him/co-produce a way to manage conflicting needs (situations where his needs and your needs conflict). You can ask him what would work best for him in terms of trying to work through this.

Hopefully, this can then provide a framework for bringing the content - eg him wanting to do the tidying up, but you wanting the tidying up done is a specific timeframe.....and/or any other or subsequent conflicts of needs/interests at play.

@Bunnyhair This looks to be a useful site with strategies and lived experiences.

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behaviour/demand-avoidance#Support%20strategies

I think you have your answer here. You do need to get better at enduring his moods.Whether he thinks so or not, your wellbeing is just as important as his. Just do the dishes. Let him be in a mood. Ignore it. Sit in the discomfort. Yes it will be difficult for a while but eventually he will get used to it.
I do understand - I have a couple of ASD/?PSD in my life and have ADHD traits. You matter just as much as everyone else and you need to look after your own mental health, because by the sounds of things no one else is going to. Could you get a therapist for yourself that understands autism /PDA.?

Now being a lazy manchild with no self-control or standards is becoming a medical thing? (still not clinically recognised)
Poor mug you are

If this even was real, if he had a bit of drive, willpower, and held himself to higher standards, you would be a bit further down the road than the initial clash of him not doing it, and having to sit on it in silence for fear of meltdown

You ve been together for years, you are parents, it s a repeat situation that played out a lot of times it seems. If you had a decent partner in front of you who is decided to pull his weight, PDA or else, you both would be way further into finding coping mechanisms, solutions, etc.

Taking myself out, best of luck to you, it must be hard and you do so much to make it right

@NDandMe have you been on https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/ it may help with strategies

@OldBeyondMyYears yes sorry it was for you. That’s awful, you’re right about the state of the SEND system ☹️

I'd already done the 'this is how I learned to do it with ADHD' post. I do concede that once we got to the point that she tolerates neglect of animals that could easily result in a protracted and exceedingly painful death, my sympathies instantly evaporated, but there you go.

This is tricky. At the time he offers to do it he probably genuinely believes that he will do it. So asking him "not to offer to do things he wont do" is impossible.

Can you do something like having clear tasks that are yours and clear tasks that are his? Then you can simply say "no it is my job". Try to give him the tasks that don't matter so much to you when (if!) he does them. Or a fixed routine for certain tasks so that they have to be done at a set time no matter which of you does them?

wanting thanks and appreciation for stating the intention to do it,

Right. So you need to stop feeding him with thanks and appreciation for offering to do it. That is reinforcing his behaviour. The thanks and appreciation only come after he has done it. You can even say to him that you will thank him when the job is done (in a calm neutral voice) if he complains that he is not getting praised for offering to do it.

I suspect that some of your attempts to feed him with positive feelings are counter productive.

If this means he leaves nearly everything to you then maybe he's not a viable life partner. Whether it's his fault or not.

Could you say 'Ok, well we'll do a bit each. I'll do some now, you finish it later.'

Then clean up the kitchen to your satisfaction after which he can just neaten things up a bit to feel like he did do something?

I'm afraid I can't imagine loving a man enough to put up with this shit. With a child you have to, with a partner you don't.

Then clean up the kitchen to your satisfaction after which he can just neaten things up a bit to feel like he did do something?

I personally wouldn't do that. I would do that for a little child, who is learning something positive from doing the neatening up, and who could be expected to do a little more of ithe job by themselves each time as they grow up. But what is an adult learning from it?

No, he won't have that because he wants to be thanked sincerely for his offer, even though she knows he won't fulfil it.

Yes, I am impacted. But there is not anything he can do, and we can’t separate for all sorts of logistical reasons, but also because we need each other to make our DC’s life work. I couldn’t do it without DH. He knows instinctively how to de-escalate and accommodate and soothe our DC a lot of the time, and I just don’t. I have to really work at it.

He is not like a lot of the autistic fathers I read about who are very triggered by their autistic DC. He does a lot of the emotional heavy lifting with our DC and a lot of the playing, and can withstand the sensory seeking hitting and biting and the endless vocal stimming which I find very difficult to be around for extended periods.

Our family setup precludes much romance or intimacy. But we do Ok with me managing the practicalities (which DH can’t) and DH managing a lot of the more challenging aspects of caring for our DS (which I can’t). I suppose maybe what I am wanting from him is just a clearer structure - just let me do the fucking dishes because that’s my job. You do the endless compelled YouTube and Lego. Job’s a good un.

I suppose maybe what I am wanting from him is just a clearer structure - just let me do the fucking dishes because that’s my job. You do the endless compelled YouTube and Lego. Job’s a good un.

Well there you go - my job, your job! 😀Make sure he gets plenty of thanks and appreciation for his Lego skils 'n' YouTube tolerance.

I assume as a child with PDA he or she is autistic and autism is certainly recognised as a condition, so I don't really understand this. The child clearly needs additional support. Does school not have the capacity to redirect one of the school TAs to be in your room more? I would expect this in my area, and would certainly expect an EHCNA would be agreed as there is clear evidence of SEN.

Anyway.
OP.
Could you do the "higher authority" thing?

Long term shared goal - keeping the family together, well and happy

Short term issue - kitchen gets very messy, understandably, catering for everyone's needs. This is part of meeting the needs of everyone in the family and is absolutely fine, PROVIDED that it gets unmessy every day as well.

Higher authority - kitchens should be clean enough and hygienic enough to work in to keep all family members safe and ensure any authority who might pop in would have no issues about how our family is working

Suggested solution- OP will do a main clear up before going to bed, so she does not ever have to worry that a visiting adult would report them to social services, and this will help her feel much more settled. DP can then do a final sweep round, wipe sides etc (because it won't matter much if he doesn't, but we don't say that bit out loud) before he comes to bed.

More generally, assurance that you understand him. Does choice within a boundary work? (Eg wipe sides with me now, or wipe sides a bit later in your own time)?

"The issue troubling me today is that DH said last night, ‘please don’t do any cleaning up, I’ll do it before I go to bed.’ I expressed thanks for this, though I knew he would not do it, and I’d come down in the morning to a mess. Which is exactly what happened. It happens a lot"

Stop thanking him, just say 'okay'.

I do do this! I have suggested a clear division of labour but that again feels like something I am ‘imposing’ that he constantly has to mess with. But I think maybe I just need to try not to let it get to me.

i think it just strikes at something very difficult at the core of my marriage and family life: that my own desires and needs will only ever be experienced by the people I share most of my life with as a demand and an imposition.

I understand - two of my daughters have PDA. It's very hard because for the person with the PDA it's a nervous system disability and they go into fight or flight.

Declarative statements always work better than questions and making the demand indirect. Another thing that you could try is writing a note - this helps my older dd.

It's never easy, I empathise.

What works for people in relationships, or what they value the most and what they are willing to sacrifice for this, differs significantly between people.

The OP posted a long list of the things her partner does that enrich her life. I'm guessing that these outweigh the challenges/problems. Her narrative /understanding of the challenges are also tempered by framing them as being linked to neurodivergence rather than selfishness. The OP also has a good understanding of her needs and her limits and the post is about seeking constructive advice for addressing an issue that she isn't happy to continue tolerating. This sounds like a healthy approach to her relationship with her partner.

I would not be happy in /stay in the relationship that she describes, regardless of PDA. This does not mean that either she or her partner are in the wrong, or shouldn't be together - it just wouldn't work for me.

It's nice to think that people who experience extreme anxiety when perceiving demands and/or who are hyper sensitive to perceived negative judgement can be in relationships with strong partners who have limits and boundaries and gain a lot from the relationship.

Re-referring is the wrong direction, the rejection needs to be appealed. The law states that an assessment of need should be carried out if there is indication that a child has sen. The bar for assessor, legally, very low. The senco at your school should know all this but many of them don’t actually understand the process.

apply for assessment when it’s refused appeal. If it’s still refused go to tribunal. Don’t keep referring, they’ll just keep refusing.