Not 'bad enough' to leave

[Idontknow010101]

I'm in a relationship of convenience I guess, for want of a better way of putting it. Been together 13 years. He has great qualities - in terms of the house he does equal amounts, he has a positive relationship with my child and is a decent stepfather, he has looked after us practically and financially over the years and continues to do so. We get on well, can laugh together and like each others company, even if we do take each other for granted. But I cant help feeling something is really missing for me. The emotional connection. the care and empathy when I'm low or anxious (which happens from time to time) I couldnt feel more alone. He seems mainly oblivious about it, and when I let him know and tell him how I'm feeling, he can say some comforting things (which I've guided him about over the years) but again seems oblivious and disinterested. It makes me feel like we are quite mismatched and I wonder sometimes about a more emotionally fulfilling and secure relationship.

Has anyone else felt this? I feel like it must be quite common, just based on how men and women are socialised.

Be careful. As above, seems to me, most of what requires fixing is the very stuff men are poor at fixing. I doubt I could deal with you either. That's men, most men. We don't do that well.
I won't even consider advice on you current state, yet I am qualified on what happens next...

Now you're bored and upset. That I'm afraid that would be life. Women are dumping us in droves, and right or wrong.... many woman think what's ahead is their 20s in repeat, and make the big mistake.
Finding the replacement won't be easy. The dating market is 'orrible, 'orrible. You're not in your 20s, a bit of slap and new frock won't cut it. You're not 22 and hot, you will struggle. Your friends will lie to about how attractive you are, and the few desirable men you want will have the options you were used to in your 20s. It won't be slap and new frock that got him the date. He'll have worked damned hard. He has options, and why would he want you? If he's desirable you will be sharing him.

If your current fella is half what you say he is, think long and hard. He sounds decent, and life is boring. You're unlikely to find the same, let be better.

If you'd be happy forever single, dumping him has merit. Be minded, his replacement is a rare item. Whatever you get will have more baggage, more hassle. Dating now won't be forever, forever upgrades to better and better men you had in your 20s. Each the placeholder to ever better quality boyfriends.

Before I get accused of misogyny, please understand the reality. Else give it a year and you'll be uttering the famous words "Where have all the good men gone?".... and "I don’t need a man". You'll find some decent men, the sort you're planning rid. But common-sense tells you, the rest will be left-overs.

This when you standards have gone up, not down.

If you want it good in the dating scene now, be 22 again. Else, us men do better and it's still not good. It's 'orrible out there. Think on.

@SomeTrashBloke I agree I won't find a better man, and I don't want another man. I don't want an 'upgrade' (which I find a horrible term, that I've only ever heard men use)

I have spent my 30s and 40s so far, being grateful my 20s were over. The men I dated in my 20s.. with my youthful looks etc, treated me so badly, and I let them, because I had very poor self esteem.

I am 41 now, I am not so slim and not so pretty but I feel more confident than i ever did at 22 and I question staying in an emotionally unsatisfying relationship. We get one life and it is not 1955, thank God. What is more liberating than a woman wanting to please herself?

I've seen it so many times, from school onwards - the top 5-10% of men get to date the top 80% of women. They treat them very badly - women allow this. For this I apologise, such that the 'humped & dumped' bottom-rung still think the top men are in their league. Yet women love the bad-boys. Men are told women want a nice man. It's a lie. The 6' 7" buff vampire has hearts a flutter, not the nice.

I find women want to be on the right side of our monster. I think it's primal.

Yet you have to give her a higher position she has to climb to. You can't be nice, bad-boy & nice works. Nice doesn't. God knows why, but women like it when men have options. I suspect that's the root of the OP's prob. Her fella is nice. This will see him rid.

As for what is more liberating than a woman wanting to please herself, I'm not sure. If, if... that's what you want, nothing. Only I'm not sure we always want our own way.

As for the word 'upgrade' shall we insert 'better'?

@SomeTrashBloke - OP has repeatedly said she doesn't want another man. That is not what she is after. She wants peace. No anger, no resentment.

@Idontknow010101 - think carefully about your future wants. Is it something you can find yourself, or only through therapy, or only through a relationship? If it's something you can give yourself (no more resentment) then certainly start looking at how you can leave. If it's something that only another person can gift you (companionship) then start looking to see if a new friend or hobby can fill that hole first. It might even be a gift (building resilience) that only you can give via workshops and therapy.

Men are not good at this, most of us fail to think on the same emotional level, and it's not that we don't try. It's that we can't. I don't ask my wife to fix the central-heating. We have a small fraction of your emotional intelligence. I doubt the fella even grasps the issue. We need actions, give us an action, this over a emotional-riddle and we're on it. Let me design a jet-engine.

Sadly, I think the OP is going into the greengrocers for a pound of sausages, and until she goes to the butcher, her fella gets the exit sign.

Not bad enough to leave...but not good enough to stay

@Idontknow010101 - you can absolutely be on your own if this is what you think you want.

But the sweeping statement about what most women feel like in hetero-relationships is projecting your feelings and expecting all other women to be like you.
Not everybody is the same.

Most women don’t compromise their emotional needs for economic security.
You seem to be feeling somehow superior to other women because you have decided to ‘liberate’ yourself vs rest of womenkind.

Not everybody needs their male (or female) partner to serve as their counsellor and constantly monitor their emotional state.

There are people with different levels of reliance on other people for their emotional wellbeing. Some - tend to rely on external sources (expect if from other people) - while other are more self-reliant and take responsibility for their own MH and emotions.

You are on a rather extreme edge of that need where the only acceptable level for you is one lesbian relationship you have as an example.
And you seem to only want emotional support in one form - and that is within a romantic relationship.
While many people use a variety of ways to get emotional support in their lives - including friends and family. Not because - they settled for inferior men - but because no one person can meet all of anybody’s needs. We are social creatures - and this is why we have friends.

Can i ask - if counselling has shown you that you can be self sufficient with your emotional needs - what is stopping you from enjoying your relationship the way it is? Where - by your own account your OH is a good and hardworking man who is there for you in so many ways.

I also wonder - if you asked your OH - what sort of partner have you been to him over the years - what would he say? Have you cared about his needs or has it always been about you - as your posts seem to read.
The other poster who cared for her ill husband - who then did not reciprocate —- she has a point.
But in your case - your relationship seems unbalanced. You took a lot, and seem unhappy he is not giving you more.

@SomeTrashBloke I absolutely see what you're saying, but I wondered if you have any suggestions for a solution?

I am on a similar position to the OP, though not identical, of course.

My DH is great at 'doing' anytask he's asked to do. Want the washing done? He's probably already done it or will do it if you ask. Want the fence fixed? Ditto. Want the car washed or the bins put out or a child taken to a destination? He's great at it.

What if I want someone who I actually like spending time with or doing things with because they connect with me in some way? What if I want the adult that shares my living space to show some reaction when I am sad? Or to share their own feelings? What if I want to laugh with him rather than create a task lists of ways he can prove himself to me?

Saying "men can't do that stuff so be grateful for what you can get" is really crap. I do have male friends (and female ones!) that I have that connected relationship with, but society and my DH and my wedding vows say I'm not allowed to cultivate those relationships because it would be unfaithful to my DH. What if I want to share jokes with someone that's not my DH? What if that someone happens to be male? What if I want feel calm at the end of the day because I am either alone or with someone who I feel calm around, rather than hiding in bed every evening to avoid conversations with someone who I don't want to talk to?

"Men" may be unable to connect emotionally in this way. That doesn't make it any easier living with someone who expects (and who society expects) to have that connection with you when it just isn't there.

Any suggestions what you should do then?

Oh my god @SomeTrashBloke where to begin? Your attitudes are soo part of the problem?

If you only see women as a sexual object then the meat market where 20 year olds are privileged is logical. But women - PEOPLE - are so much more than what they look like!

The OP wants a partner who respects her as an equal. Who supports her, especially in bad times. Who empowers her because they think well of her.

Instead she has someone who is undermining her, is uninterested in her as a person and does not care what her feelings are, nevermind has any compassion or sympathy with them.

Life is too short to be constantly chipped away at by a partner that is uninterested in you. They may as well have an AI robot as a partner. What would be the difference?

I'd leave @Idontknow010101 Whatever else is out there, single or dating, at least you won't be constantly dragged down by someone treating you as though you don't matter.

Better to leave and be lone than lonely in an unfulfilling marriage.

Women cope far better alone than men do. Please don't listen to advice that doesn't come from a place of understanding what you feel, need, want. People can change. Yes, even men. However they have to want to, they have to want to try and they have to put the work in.

Don't blame yourself for changing. We should all change and grow as we age and what we wanted at one age, what we'd accept at one age, doesn't mean it will always be that way.

I've rarely felt so revolted over something another poster has typed on here but @SomeTrashBloke wins the prize. Unnecessary comments, total lack of understanding, appearance of reading comprehension skills lacking and just awful attitude.

@Idontknow010101 and everyone else in the same boat. I know you are all capable of making your own decisions. You don't need anyone's permission. If you want to leave, if you feel something it is real, if it feels too bad to stay then start thinking about leaving. If it feels too good to leave but there's something then discuss it. If not with your partner then a therapist. Therapy is an incredible tool for processing thoughts. I have found my therapist has been incredible for helping me make sense of my experiences and thoughts and I do most of the talking. I'm free to be free, to think, to meet me again.

I'm going to go from a huge house and garden with no real money worries to moving 100's of miles away to a much smaller house and garden, will most probably have to go back to work for the first time in 23 years but I will be away from someone who was so so bad for me.

It is your life and you must do what you feel is best for you. Not what family, friends or society thinks. You.

@SomeTrashBloke bloody hell, are you the full pound of sausages?!

you know there are some women who can fix their own central heating, design complex machinery and not be an emotionally useless blunderbuss, all at once, right? I know, mind blowing.

@MMmomDD didn't mean to project, this view is based on my experience of relationships and the ones I see and hear about.

I disagree that my needs are on the extreme end, or that I have taken a lot? What has given you that impression?! I have a good group of friends and family who I do lean on for support when needed, (and I am not someone who regularly does this - my friends would probably say I should offload more!) however there have been crisis moments over the years, as happens in life, where I've felt let down by my partner and I realise i want more. I've justified it so far with the argument you make - you can't get all your needs met in one person. But I find myself at a age and stage where that doesn't seem to work anymore, in the same way.

Funnily enough I asked my partner today what he got from our relationship and whether he was happy with it. He said he was and that he feels supported and bolstered by me - he's recently started a new job and it's required a fair bit of adjusting in the home, which he recognises. So your impression of me isn't quite right. I also certainly don't feel superior to other women, at all. I am in awe of the women on this thread who have taken brave steps to do what is right for them. And I feel only compassion for others that find themselves in the same predicament as me. To the others who are happy, I'm envious!

Your point about enjoying my relationship the way it is, is the question huh, and one I don't have the answer about yet.

Thank you @BirthdayRainbow , that's it - I've changed so much, for the better I would say. I'm nowhere near the person I was in my late 20s when I met him. He has changed a little bit.. I don't even want him to change though, he is who he is and none of us should change for anyone. Just not feeling a good fit anymore

Thank you @AutumnFroglets that's really thoughtful advice.

I'm reading it now. Just got to the one about 'off-the-table-itis'. That, in a nutshell, is why my marriage is dead in the water. My DH never wants to address any issue beyond the most immediate and practical, such as why is the boiler on the blink again. Absolutely anything else is off the table. He knows it makes me deeply frustrated and unhappy, but he doesn't care, even when it comes to obvious things like the house falling apart from utter neglect or the fact that if he had his way, we'd only ever leave the house to go shopping, and never go on holiday.

@SomeTrashBloke You a bit lost perhaps? I think you're looking for the incel boards on Reddit. Much more your style, mate.

Be careful. As above, seems to me, most of what requires fixing is the very stuff men are poor at fixing. I doubt I could deal with you either. That's men, most men. We don't do that well.

I would agree that the first half of @SomeTrashBloke‘s post read well.

a bit of slap and new frock won't cut it. You're not 22 and hot, you will struggle.

How rude! The glaringly obvious thing is that most men wouldn’t dare put on a bit of slap or wear a new outfit in order to attract a potential partner. There are a plethora of gorgeous women past their twenties out there looking fabulous and I’m one of them! Let’s face it, the vast majority of men let themselves go well before women do at the same age.

He'll have worked damned hard. He has options, and why would he want you? If he's desirable you will be sharing him.

There are women that have also worked damned hard, and, therefore, also have options, so wouldn’t want your sorry arse either! Especially, any so-called man spouting that kind of sexist rubbish. Unfortunately, for misogynistic men like SomeTrashBloke, most women now work, can vote and have great earning power leading to many options in life. Which means we don’t have to put up with the type of ish women in previous generations did.

Women are dumping us in droves

Yes. And why do you think that is!?

and right or wrong.... many woman think what's ahead is their 20s in repeat, and make the big mistake. Finding the replacement won't be easy. The dating market is 'orrible, 'orrible.

Yes, if you are not able to weed out the red pillers such as this one!

Don’t let emotionally immature men and misognistic pp put you off leaving if that’s what’s best for you. Empathy is huge for me, and I could not be in a relationship with anyone who couldn’t feel empathy for me or others. I’ve ditched female friends for their lack of empathy towards me.

Relationships are not always plain sailing. It can take a lot of ongoing work to get to a point where there is continuous mutual understanding and respect. DH and I had an issue this week where a communication failure occurred on his part. We had to resume talking in order to push through. There was openness, honesty, and willingness for growth and change otherwise we’d still be detached from each other today. Along with our kids sensing the toxicity in the atmosphere and negatively affecting their development.

DH and I are nearly 30 years in and we still need to talk, talk and talk some more. We got together young and have obviously both changed over the years. We have three children, one an adult. We’ve always both worked and have very busy lives juggling it all, including DH being a multiple business owner. The key is we both still like each other, are still friends, are still physically attracted to each other and have a lot of love for each other.

I would recommend couple/marriage counselling if your partner is open to change. If not, leave and also consider counselling just for you if you haven’t already embarked on it.

There’s always a better future out there for you. And it’s okay to want to be single. Well, at least maybe until you find someone who ticks all of your boxes one day. If never, then that’s fine as at least you’ll be happier without someone else dragging you down.
I’d rather be single than have to wade through the swamp of the dating pool that I hear is out there, esp. OLD (our adult DD is in her late 20’s).
I.e., I would not want the hassle of training another man up, so I’d rather be single, happy and at peace alone.

Never go to sleep on an argument. If that’s not possible, you’ll need couple counselling or in some cases you’ll need to leave.

you know there are some women who can fix their own central heating, design complex machinery and not be an emotionally useless blunderbuss, all at once, right? I know, mind blowing.

Yes. And the women who can’t, can afford to pay someone else to do it! Shocking!
I’ve always done more of our home DIY than DH and we pay other people to do the rest of it. My Mum is the same. We’re raising our DD’s and our DS to be able to do absolutely everything! Shock horror!

Touché!

This is absolute bollocks and the kind of thing that means men can just continue being substandard humans with abandon, because people will happily give them excuses to do so and say “that’s just men”. It absolutely isn’t too much to ask for to want an emotionally switched on partner. Maybe OP is absolutely fine to be single if she doesn’t meet one! I know I’d rather be single than in an unfulfilling relationship. I’m sorry your bar is so low - doing their fair share of housework and having compatible personalities is the absolute bare minimum needed for a relationship!

I’ve dated a string of dodgy specimens but one thing all my longer relationships had in common was they were emotionally supportive and happy to talk about feelings and have deep chats. My current partner is way more empathetic than me, does all the cooking and housework, is attuned to my needs and endlessly supportive. I wouldn’t accept any less.

I will answer UpsideDownside’s Q when I’ve a mo’

Meantime… I am not having a pop at any of you. Nor did I try to offend. I did not say I see woman as a meat-market. Nor as a sexual object. However, I did point to dating reality.

You'll be very aware of the counter-point to how a woman looks. Walk a woman in a public space, and 80% of all men are left unseen, a man under 5’ 8” is just not there. My son does well, a part of this, his 6’ 4” frame, it shouldn’t be about what he looks like. It is. Women like to pretend how a man looks does not matter. It seems to matter more.

UpsideDownside’s Q

Likely applies to the OP too.
I suspect your partner doesn't truly 'get' it. Some men do, I know one man with emotional intelligence to top any woman I've met. That's rare.

Most men struggle, thus we can thkweam and thkweam but in all seriousness, to return to the analogy, if we can't get sausages, don't be blaming the greengrocer. Is it a bit carp you won't fix the lawnmower? Probably. (generalisation-alert) most woman are not going to... but that's how it is. However you do want him to move towards you, that's not unreasonable provided you give him in er, 'central-heating' lessons, and you walk in his shoes too.

You're going to laugh, but because you will completely blitz him on this front, don't think just because he doesn't get it, he doesn't care. It'll be hard enough anyway, the more you barrack him for not getting it, the more he's likely to switch off and let you get on with what he doesn't understand. You see for us, we don't do emotional stuff much. That's not the same as not caring.

If you really want this, I suggest you start afresh and put your er, 'central-heating' requirement in a format he can get a grip on. Thing is (generalisation-alert) women think in emotions, and men think in logical sequences. Neither is better or worse - your problem is, he will struggle to think in your format. And the more male he is, the more this will be true.

I said don't laugh, I got my wife to draw a flow-chart. It took a while , finally the penny dropped. It had another function, what it also did was make her see where her requirements were not thought through.
How so? Because that was the part where the flow-chart would not work . It went full circle to her. It was the stuff she was reflecting off me. What this device broadly did was have me grasp her point.

What it also did was make her grasp why I'm not her. Be careful here, as women take male roles, 'standard issue man', can't really follow. It's not his job to make you happy, it's your job to make you happy. Provided he's not trying to make you unhappy with all this, which I doubt, he'll be simply confused.

Most of what you say, has been going wwwwaaayy over his head, to the point that he no longer listens because he can't 'hear' anyway. Walk in his shoes.

@SomeTrashBloke if you are an example of men’s ability to be rational, logical and solution focused then god help the human race and your poor wife.

@SomeTrashBloke you've lost me completely, at the sausages and lawnmowers. I can only assume you are too much man for me.

Be careful here, as women take male roles, 'standard issue man', can't really follow.

I don't think you are even 'standard issue' yourself which is why you are struggling so much on this thread (and apparently in your own relationship). I hope your wife finds these boards soon and realises she's got a duff one.

WTF was that!?

Ladies, let’s be thankful that we haven’t saddled ourselves with one of these.

Happy New Year! All the best for our searches for deep emotional connections, happiness and peace.