December 2023 - So we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support

No other surgery available. That's part of the issue I think.

Surgery say receptionists are "signposting" not triaging...its just semantics

About a year ago I confronted my mother for the first time about abuse and I began laying the foundations for going no-contact with my entire family of origin. Not too long after my extremely supportive fiance (now wife) told me about this thread and that I might find it helpful. As I am from the U.S. there were a few moments of confusion where she had to explain to me what exactly a ‘Stately Home’ was, how Mumsnet was not just for Mums, and what the heck all these acronyms meant!

My initial thought was that maybe there would be a few nuggets of wisdom here but that this wouldn’t be exactly for me because “Sure I was abused but it wasn't all bad and definitely not as bad as other people.” For my whole life my family of origin claimed they could not have been abusive because of the opportunities and experiences they gave me during my childhood. For decades I validated their choices and actions because other people had it worse and I believed, because they constantly told me, that they were doing their best. They were my family and the “only family I'd ever get”, right?

Then I reread the title of this thread and I understood. It was like shedding a weight off of my shoulders that I didn’t know I had been carrying. Having the tiniest parts of my squashed soul validated as my partner read aloud the words “nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you” is a moment I will cherish eternally.

I am sharing this because I know there are many people like me who are just watching. I want to encourage those people to take the very worthwhile steps to move forward. It’s painful, difficult, and above all else terrifying. But more so than anyone, we are all well accustomed to fear. Fear is the abusers greatest weapon, they want you to be afraid. Afraid of losing them, afraid of the consequences, afraid of the pain, afraid of doing the wrong thing, afraid of speaking up, afraid of our reputation, afraid of losing time, or relationships, or money, or access, or something precious, and most importantly they prey upon our fear of the potential. They want the fear of what we believe about what may happen to be far greater than any other belief.

It was so difficult for me to admit the overwhelming sense of fear that I felt as a child, it was even harder to admit that I had carried it into my adult life as a man, who thought of themself as brave and independent. I disguised fear as a multitude of other emotions, I covered the truth of the terrors that were inflicted upon a child in a stoicism that fed into my abusers' deniability.

Without the support of my wife I would never have realized that my situation was in fact abusive. I hate the word “grateful”, it was used as a weapon in my childhood, but I am very grateful for her showing me this thread and the recommendation of ‘Toxic Parents’. I would highly encourage reading 'Toxic Parents', it helped me immensely. Many times the examples of abusive situations and excuses were so familiar it was like reading a script that had been written by my family of origin. It was effortless to read the words and hear their voices echoing the excuses that rung over and over in my ears for decades. Parts of the book were almost a transcript of the day I confronted my mother for the first time about the abuse. The book will probably be very hard for you. I had to take it one chapter at a time in very small doses as I bounced back and forth between fury and grief. The book contains descriptions of situations that are far more terrible than I could imagine experiencing, so please know that there is help and love out there and no abuse is too large or too small. But ‘Toxic Parents’ is a book about healing and realistic hope and at times it also made me laugh. When I got to a point in my development where I saw my abusers for who they were, the pain of what they did was still there, but their antics, pettiness, and predictability comes across as truly ridiculous. I cannot express enough how important this quote is: “Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.”

Since reading the book I have gone no contact with my entire family of origin, started with a psychiatrist and a therapist, started my PhD, and have gotten married. I get to determine who my family is and that makes me not so afraid anymore.

🤗🤗 @BeaBear and welcome. I hope you find what you need here xx

BeaBear

Welcome. My best wishes to both your wife💐 and yourself💐

@BeaBear
Very eloquently put and it resonates so much with me . Thankyoi for sharing and welcome.

@BeaBear your post resonated a lot with me. Especially, when you said:

“I covered the truth of the terrors that were inflicted upon a child in a stoicism that fed into my abusers' deniability”

I went through life as a child and young adult being stoic which served my toxic family well. Until my body completely freaked out in my mid 20s leading me to understand why I was so fearful and miserable via therapy, yoga and meditation. I needed an intensive amount of all three to heal.

Wishing you the best

@BeaBear welcome to the gang. Tons of wisdom and support here borne out of really hard childhoods and adulthood experience of toxicity.

Fortunately, my childhood was good - not without difficult moments as I was the family rebel lol - but my partner’s (him) childhood was dreadful. I have some — only some - insight into the male experience of survival.

I think family abuse is a taboo subject because if . Lots of us have the ‘it wasn't that bad, they didn't beat me’ ‘they did their best’ ‘their own childhood was terrible’ ‘my childhood was privileged’. Inevitably. The abusers do such a number on us that we absorb that messaging.

My partner Mr Monkey spoke those words, although his vile mother THE HAG beat him on an almost daily basis, and it’s been a long journey for him to identify his experiences as abusive and to get therapy. He’s been worried that he's weak and conforms to the a ‘gay boy’ (his family are horribly homophobic, he's not) by letting his feelings out. He's felt disloyal and guilty.

He's now calling it for what it was - physical and emotionally abuse.

Slightly banging my head on the table as he's decided to ‘pop in’ to see The Hag this evening after work. Admittedly, it's to explain to the witch that she's going to the memory clinic for her dementia at the end of the month. I'm going to suggest he do it nearer to the 30 Jan as the bitch will forget and what's the point as the Hag just sits in her disgusting flat seething with rage so she's not going to miss any appointment. Why ruin the weekend with 20 minutes of her fury?

Welcome to the gang!

Monkey I think there are two sorts of “my childhood was privileged” though. There’s “I wasn’t too hungry and owned clothes even though I was getting the crap beaten out of me every day” but in many ways my own childhood WAS privileged. Expensive private day school and HORSES not to mention my parents quietly climbing the property ladder until they now own two houses worth over £1.5m and are having a massive family fight about buying my grandparents’. The problem is that there can be an underside to all those types of privileged. It would be a bit complicated to explain what went on about school but I was expected to be effortlessly perfect, often told off for other children’s misdemeanours until I learned to keep quiet about them and a frequent one to throw at me from my mother is that I need to repay the school fees (my dad, who actually earns the money). Good luck to her with that as unfortunately my mental health problems are way too severe to have any earning potential right now. Having horses - and when I wasn’t at school or uni I looked after all three of them, not just my own, meant no time for friends or holidays, and my mother managed to weave quite a lot of mild abuse in.

There was an end to that message but this stupid bug - anyone else getting it? Replaced what I was writing so many times I just have given up.

@BeaBear yes the script! Once seen can't be unseen. I think the fear of our childhoods instill adult fear. NC was the last resort for me, I was told I would be an orphan and out the will/inheritance. The funny thing is I never had a family to fall back on if things got difficult [unlike my siblings] so the realization that I had been an orphan my whole life was hurtfully shocking but freeing. Everything I have is from my own endeavors. My siblings stayed very close to parents, both live alone and seem unwell and unhappy. I moved far away, happily married nearly 30 years, run my own very successful business, semi retired.
My siblings are the golden children but it hasn't brought them happiness. Despite my hurt I think I got the better deal.
The truth is narcs/toxic people do not change, walking away is an act of love for our soul. Those who remain enmeshed within the family drama will remain victims, it is a choice to accept abused or walk away.
We are responsible for our own solutions and happiness. Lovely post thank you.

@MonkeyfromManchester my DH is a dementia nurse. The hag will get a mini mental state examination which gives a score then if needed a longer Addenbrookes assessment that takes about 30m of questions. In Scotland if scores are bad they are referred for a CT scan. Then seen by Psychiatrist who will give diagnosis of dementia if there is one on basis of tests and scan result. In Scotland if diagnosed you automatically get one years post diagnostic support from Alzheimer Scotland link worker to help with benefits,social stuff that is on in the area.She might just have normal cognitive decline associated with ageing? I'm thinking is she early 80s?
I'd make sure your DH does not take on Power of Attorney for the hag or he will never escape. The state steps in if no family do and the persons best interests are upheld.It is very common for adult children to not want to be involved with elderly parents.

Pm me if you have any queries xxx

Welcome @BeaBear . I too am No Contact with my entire Family Of Origin. Both my parents are dead now. The death of my dysfunctional mother 18 months ago (who was violent and abusive towards me throughout my childhood), was a relief.

I have a highly toxic narc sister and 2 dysfunctional brothers - one a hopeless alcoholic and the other who has serious MH issues. Brothers were also violent towards me as a kid.

Walking away from all of them was the beginning of my healing process.

Toxic people never change. If anything, they get worse as they age.

@SarahC50 that’s amazing, thank you. ❤️

A friend talked Mr Monkey out of POA for those reasons. My lovely older neighbour who at 88 is a year older than the Hag (and far more positive about life) has just had the memory tests - done at home, wonder if that’s to see how they manage? - and then the scan.

It’s hard to tell with The Hag with her forgetfulness and hearing with what’s selective and what’s not.

Hearing is definitely selective. We get a lot of “speak up, SPEAK UP” screaming when it’s something she doesn’t want to hear but has bat level hearing when I muttered FFS in my kitchen 15 ft away from her which elicited screaming “I HEARD THAT.” Memory is selective as she uses her memory to forget things she doesn’t want to remember, as a distraction technique, to become ‘justifiably’ angry, to blame her sons for not looking after her properly or to get negative attention.

EVERYTHING is a struggle with her. Nightmare.

@MonkeyfromManchester it sounds like MM is really struggling with breaking free, hence the "popping over".

I do hope that he will not be cleaning and clearing up her filthy lair so that the outside agencies can see how she is living. The big clear-up he did recently would have masked the reality of her deliberate attempts to lure in MM and SM to be her 24hr carers.

The problem for MM is once he’s in her physical presence it’s going to be so much harder to walk away. Could he make an appointment - real or imagined - so he can breeze in and say “nice to see you - I’ve got 45 minutes until my Dr’s appt/tea with a bereaved friend/church service/local political party meeting but let’s have a quick cup of tea until I HAVE TO RUSH OFF”

@Sicario he’s definitely struggling with it. It’s a negative cycle. The joy of the trauma bond! I think if we lived at the other end of the city rather than 10 minutes walk away (and near his wider - albeit lovely - family) it would be easier to drop the rope. Hoping to win the lottery this weekend…

the carers are seeing mouldy food in the spare room again, binning it but logging it. I wish he’d taken photos of the lair in November. Hideous.

She won’t let carers wash her clothes (logged) but Mr Monkey is refusing to do it, so memory clinic people will see her in her usual filthy clothes.

email to the social worker this morning!

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau DEFINTELY! I’m just glad the Hag can’t get to our house anymore. NOT that she would be at all welcome.

He was getting good at ‘right, I’m hanging up / going now’ line when she started the verbal abuse. He needs to preferably just bin her.

hooe you’re doing ok.

@beabear welcome x

So my mums hubbie is in a nursing home. One of his sons flew home yesterday and the plan was for him to come to me for the night for a catch up and I drop him to my mums this morning for 10am. My mother was seething that he was coming to see me first and was not home when I dropped him off. He is currently in a cafe trying to contact her and she is not answering I believe out of sheer spite.
The interesting thing is she has refused to tell him the nursing home his father is in so she assumes he relies on her cos she loves that control but I have given him the name of it and he can still see him but his other siblings who I am not in contact with have sent him messages recently saying they dont know anything about their dad and my mum seems to be keeping them away from him but telling me and anyone who will listen that they have been told everything and have not bothered to see him.
I feel sick for his kids plus by accident she put her husbands bank statement into my ds xmas gift and it shows her transferring money to herself from him. How sick really is she? How is she my mother? I feel a bit ill today.

Oh this SODDING bug. Off to start a thread on site stuff.

Welcome to the thread @BeaBear your post resonates with my experience too. I'm non contact with parents and very low contact with other members.

@BeaBear
thankyou for your post it’s good we have men here too and from a different walk of life.

i agree it takes a lot to stand infront of an adult parent who’s abuse ruined your life for decades as to us it was normal.

i grew up watching my alcoholic father beat my mother up weekly - police in our house - blood everywhere me running out the house aged 3 walking miles at 1am to a relative as I was so scared.
my father passed away 30 years ago next month he stole money from me we hadn’t spoken in 3 years before that.
sadly my burger too used drink to cope with our abusive childhood and passed away 2020 a lovely man aged 54 my dad was 53 same illness same circumstances.

my mother had been abusive to everyone I made excuses as her childhood was y boos but I’m not abusive but I found I made excuses for her decades of her screaming in my face - Christmas Eve was my last starve she wished me dead said she doesn’t lie me and lots of awful things all envisage her ex friend had wound her up
This ‘mother ‘ had walked in ICU where I’d lost my baby in late pregnancy I had sepsis 8 blood transfusions to say
most couple split up after this infront of my then 15 year old daughter

that was 8.5 years ago and still I allowed her to make me walk on egg shell I have chronic ibs as anxiety as my life choices were made as my childhood

so good on your wife and well done you

hugs from the UK
💫

Ah @MonkeyfromManchester I recognise the pattern of almost breaking free and then something pulls you back in. The elastic on the final bit where you're low contact seems to be extra stretchy and strong somehow.
I agree that Mr Monkey needs a time limit or he'll potentially not be able to escape!
@Genuineweddingone your mum is a real controlling person isn't she? No doubt if the son had gone straight to her late last night that would have been wrong too. You can't do right for doing wrong! I hope he gets to see his dad and that he's able to share the intel of where he is with siblings. I'm not so sure that the bank statement was a mistake, was she trying to pick a fight with it perhaps? I'd put it in an envelope and send it back so it's out of your home.

@Parentalalienation I have sent it with my stepbrother back to her. I have given him the name and number of the nursing home and he had contacted them, confirmed he is there and is currently now meeting with his dad and is going to talk to his siblings and organise a meeting while he is here for the few days. We dont know where my mother is still as she has not contacted him knowing he is flying back out of here on sunday morning. A narc scorned eh? I just cannot believe her spite I cant. How can she withold that information? I mean I know she is nasty but this is all pure evil. It just defies everything I beliebe in.