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Original poster

Is this abusive?

39 replies

adventangelicat · 17/12/2023 10:40

My bil has I think problems with anger and I feel like it is getting worse and worse. He has 5 dc and shouts and yells at them all the time. He frequently tells one of them in particular that he is “useless” and an “idiot” - we went on holiday for them for a week in October and I dont think a day went by when he didn’t call his child a name like this. There is also a lot of roughhousing and play-fighting with his dses which sometimes crosses the line and becomes too rough imo.

SIL tends to play the good cop role and appease everyone and seems mortified by his behaviour at times. He is rude to staff if we go out for a meal and when something went wrong on holiday he was swearing on the phone to the travel agent, which achieved nothing. I was the one who got it resolved without swearing at anyone. He constantly talks about himself and how great he is. Last time we saw them it seemed worse than ever and then SIL made a joke about how he had stopped her going on a trip with her sister and the oldest two dc which to me seems controlling.

There is talk of another holiday with pils too and I have told dh that i am Not prepared for us to go, as I find bil increasingly unpleasant and difficult to be around. Dh agrees that we are not going but won’t tell his dps or bil the actual reason. I do actually worry that if this is what he is like in front of us, what is he like behind closed doors. I worry for my nieces and nephews of the impact on them of having him be so angry all the time. Not sure what I am asking really, just needed to get this off my chest.

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 17/12/2023 11:04

Is he your husband's brother? Could you encourage him to address it or develop a closer relationship to your sil to help her?

Outliers · 17/12/2023 11:10

Doesn't sound like the nicest guy. Abusive? I'm not sure that's a very strong word in my world

User1775 · 17/12/2023 11:18

Yes it is abuse to call your child useless or an idiot. It is abusive to 'roughhouse' them and cross a line. This is emotional and physical abuse. Have you ever done anything about it? My father is/was like this. I started challenging him robustly when I was in my twenties and he did not like it but it did stop him abusing DBs.

Watchkeys · 17/12/2023 11:49

Outliers · 17/12/2023 11:10

Doesn't sound like the nicest guy. Abusive? I'm not sure that's a very strong word in my world

How does calling a child 'useless' and an idiot sit, in your world, then? Faint praise?

It's verbal abuse, @adventangelicat . Unless you're willing to report it to social services, there's little you can do, apart from try to open dialogue, and let them know that you're there to listen and support if they want to open a dialogue.

Is SIL or BIL your husband's blood relative?

Original poster
adventangelicat · 17/12/2023 11:50

He is my dh's brother

OP posts:
Outliers · 17/12/2023 11:54

Watchkeys · 17/12/2023 11:49

How does calling a child 'useless' and an idiot sit, in your world, then? Faint praise?

It's verbal abuse, @adventangelicat . Unless you're willing to report it to social services, there's little you can do, apart from try to open dialogue, and let them know that you're there to listen and support if they want to open a dialogue.

Is SIL or BIL your husband's blood relative?

Show quote history

In my world - offensive, but abusive is something different entirely. "Useless" and "idiot" don't even cross the threshold, especially when taken out of context.

CherryBlossom321 · 17/12/2023 11:58

Yes, he’s an abusive twonk. You can contact charities like women’s aid regarding how to manage situations with friends and family where abuse is suspected, and they can also advise on how to safely support victims whilst the abuser is still living in the family home.

hellsBells246 · 17/12/2023 12:08

Outliers · 17/12/2023 11:10

Doesn't sound like the nicest guy. Abusive? I'm not sure that's a very strong word in my world

Of course it's abusive to call your child stupid or useless.

Of course it's abusive to shout and swear at people.

Of course it's abusive not to allow your wife and Dc to go on a trip they want to go on.

Watchkeys · 17/12/2023 12:10

@Outliers

In my world - offensive, but abusive is something different entirely. "Useless" and "idiot" don't even cross the threshold, especially when taken out of context

In my world, turtles are made of custard.

Convincing, isn't it?

OP, it's better to listen to the NSPCC than posters on MN. What's happening is verbal and emotional abuse.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/emotional-abuse/

Emotional abuse

It can be hard to know what emotional abuse is. We’ve got advice on the signs, effects and how to report it.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/emotional-abuse

Outliers · 17/12/2023 12:19

Watchkeys · 17/12/2023 12:10

@Outliers

In my world - offensive, but abusive is something different entirely. "Useless" and "idiot" don't even cross the threshold, especially when taken out of context

In my world, turtles are made of custard.

Convincing, isn't it?

OP, it's better to listen to the NSPCC than posters on MN. What's happening is verbal and emotional abuse.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/emotional-abuse/

Enjoy your turtles.

It's an open forum, so it's healthy to stomach dissent. I just don't think the words in isolation are abusive.

Outliers · 17/12/2023 12:20

hellsBells246 · 17/12/2023 12:08

Of course it's abusive to call your child stupid or useless.

Of course it's abusive to shout and swear at people.

Of course it's abusive not to allow your wife and Dc to go on a trip they want to go on.

Show quote history

I don't agree. But I'm just a stranger on the Internet.

furtivetussling · 17/12/2023 12:28

Outliers · 17/12/2023 12:19

Enjoy your turtles.

It's an open forum, so it's healthy to stomach dissent. I just don't think the words in isolation are abusive.

Show quote history

In isolation, perhaps not. But this is frequently, and combined with "shouts and yells at them all the time"?

Your boundaries are way off.

Dery · 17/12/2023 12:33

If this is your DH’s brother, can he speak to him about his behaviour,

TheAverageJoanne · 17/12/2023 12:35

Outliers · 17/12/2023 11:54

In my world - offensive, but abusive is something different entirely. "Useless" and "idiot" don't even cross the threshold, especially when taken out of context.

Show quote history

Try growing up in a family where your father calls you those names and more including a little nothing and a twat and limit yourself for 20 odd years because of it and then say it's not abusive.

hellsBells246 · 17/12/2023 12:40

We're all strangers on the internet, @Outliers - but that behaviour is abusive.

Would you like to be treated like that by your father, who's supposed to love and protect you? Don't you think it could have lifelong consequences?

Outliers · 17/12/2023 12:49

TheAverageJoanne · 17/12/2023 12:35

Try growing up in a family where your father calls you those names and more including a little nothing and a twat and limit yourself for 20 odd years because of it and then say it's not abusive.

Show quote history

@hellsBells246 I genuinely experienced far far FAR worse from my parents.

Which is partly why this all strikes me as relatively benign.

northernlight20 · 17/12/2023 13:01

its emotionally and verbally abusive.for the people who experienced worse and dont see this as abusive, i feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need because your views on this is very fucked up.

cerisepanther73 · 17/12/2023 13:03

@Outliers

Why is it such a strong word Abusive in a situation as this?

This is very kind of reason that charties such as Women's Aid and others change the wording from Domestic Violence to Domestic abuse
as it used to confuse 😕 Domestic abuse victims and survivor's and general public
as they naturally assumed abuse was mainly to do with physical violence,

Being constantly shouted or often and called belittle put down names ect

is a form of abuse that 🤔 is like drip drip effect
if you are told you are stupid you will never get anywhere sworn at by either parent or family member or members amagine what that does to your sense of self esteem cofindence over time,

amagine how that makes you feel that the one person who is primarily Carer tells you this,
You will obviously start to believe that,
as you are a child and they are an adult,

You can't turn to that parent about any problems you have growing up as you can't trust them with your feelings as they usaully mock and belittle and dismiss and gaslight your feelings as a joke as being nothing worth caring about

So your father the abusive bully mistreats you exactly the same as the school bully and for the same reasons as the school bully too,

And you are questioning the word Abusive in this situation,

How many women and men grow up emotionally abusive households with abusive fathers and then they marry their partners who mistreat them exactly the same way as that@Outliers ?

Watchkeys · 17/12/2023 13:06

@Outliers

I genuinely experienced far far FAR worse from my parents. Which is partly why this all strikes me as relatively benign

Objective truth isn't based, for all of us, on your personal experiences.

Outliers · 17/12/2023 13:08

cerisepanther73 · 17/12/2023 13:03

@Outliers

Why is it such a strong word Abusive in a situation as this?

This is very kind of reason that charties such as Women's Aid and others change the wording from Domestic Violence to Domestic abuse
as it used to confuse 😕 Domestic abuse victims and survivor's and general public
as they naturally assumed abuse was mainly to do with physical violence,

Being constantly shouted or often and called belittle put down names ect

is a form of abuse that 🤔 is like drip drip effect
if you are told you are stupid you will never get anywhere sworn at by either parent or family member or members amagine what that does to your sense of self esteem cofindence over time,

amagine how that makes you feel that the one person who is primarily Carer tells you this,
You will obviously start to believe that,
as you are a child and they are an adult,

You can't turn to that parent about any problems you have growing up as you can't trust them with your feelings as they usaully mock and belittle and dismiss and gaslight your feelings as a joke as being nothing worth caring about

So your father the abusive bully mistreats you exactly the same as the school bully and for the same reasons as the school bully too,

And you are questioning the word Abusive in this situation,

How many women and men grow up emotionally abusive households with abusive fathers and then they marry their partners who mistreat them exactly the same way as that@Outliers ?

I don't feel as passionately about this person's BIL or this topic in general to provide a comprehensive response.

It's just my opinion, and I'm more than happy for everyone to disagree with it.

Outliers · 17/12/2023 13:08

Watchkeys · 17/12/2023 13:06

@Outliers

I genuinely experienced far far FAR worse from my parents. Which is partly why this all strikes me as relatively benign

Objective truth isn't based, for all of us, on your personal experiences.

Same applies for you and everyone else.

Thus, it's just my opinion.

Watchkeys · 17/12/2023 13:23

Yes, @outliers Your opinion is based on your experience. My opinion is based on how the NSPCC define abuse. Our opinions are not the same. As you say, we are all entitled to our own opinion. We are also entitled to say that other people are objectively wrong in their opinions, and back it up with information from an official body.

It's sad that you feel that calling a child an idiot isn't abusive. It's sad that you think that context is relevant to that in any way. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience as a child.

HerMammy · 17/12/2023 13:27

Your DH should be taking him aside and tell him to stop being such a cunt to his family. Why do so many stay silent and not speak up, I certainly would.

Butchyrestingface · 17/12/2023 13:36

@Outliers I genuinely experienced far far FAR worse from my parents.

Which is partly why this all strikes me as relatively benign.

I too experienced maltreatment from one parent. The physical stuff (from both parents, tbf) would be considered abusive by today's standards and might even have been by the standards of the 1980s. But what stayed with me down the years, was not the hitting but the emotional abuse, which can be far more insidious.

Just because this parent isn't breaking the child's bones, doesn't mean that repeatedly verbally abusing them isn't incredibly damaging.

Outliers · 17/12/2023 14:03

Watchkeys · 17/12/2023 13:23

Yes, @outliers Your opinion is based on your experience. My opinion is based on how the NSPCC define abuse. Our opinions are not the same. As you say, we are all entitled to our own opinion. We are also entitled to say that other people are objectively wrong in their opinions, and back it up with information from an official body.

It's sad that you feel that calling a child an idiot isn't abusive. It's sad that you think that context is relevant to that in any way. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience as a child.

I don't develop my views or how I think purely based on institutional definitions. Fine if that works for you.

And I wasn't saying you can't opine on opinion. I was saying I'm not arguing my opinion is an objective truth.