SAHMs - does the fact you don't work 9in the paid sense) affect your r/ship

[micegg]

I just ask out of curiosity really. I am currently on mat leave with DC2. I returned to work on a PT basis when DD1 was 10 months but our circumstances have changed since then and I am seriously thinking of giving work up for a few years. Its early days but so far DH thinks its a good idea. I am hesistant because DH does tend to (occasionally) express jelaousy at me working PT let alone not at all. I am also uneasy on relying on him for money when my mat pay stops. How do you deal with these issues? On the other side of it, since returning PT my career had nose dived whereas DH has taken off. I have to admit I have been a little at times at the opportunities he has had. Its not a major problem but just something else to consider.

PPH you are right, when we flew the nest, my Mother died. I know this sounds awful as she was ill all of her life, but it was as if she gave up, she had done what was needed and that was that.

Of course it wasn't. I need her now as much as I needed my Mum when I was little.

PPH I have A level French and would get sod all response if I spoke it where I live, as it is Flemish or nothing here. Yes, I am learning Flemish actually, and teaching English on a voluntary basis, and am a class rep and run a youth club for 168 kids and organise a book group and mark GCSEs and am thinking of taking over the PAC for a large international school, and doing my masters, and I can stick a broom up my rear end and sweep the floor with it as well, but the point is choice surely? I can choose to work or not, and I choose not to at present.

I could like many of the ex pat mums here choose to do sod all with my days except have tennis lessons and drink coffee - if it is not a drain on the state, and it isn't on the expat packages, why do women have to do paid or voluntary work? If the situations were reversed and I was the one with the salary, my DH wouldn't work - he'd go gliding all day, or fiddle with the car. I have a rich and fulfilled life but it doesn't mean that I want to go back to the 60 hours a week that my teaching job took. I think it is sad that women have to be defined by what they do as opposed to who they are. I think by teaching in the state sector I have contributed to society. Now, I'm having time off and enjoying it.

I'm also well aware of what retired people do in the voluntary sector - I have to book times to speak to / see MIL as her diary is crammed with meetings for charities and school governorships. I don't understand however, why it is sad if retired / non-working people don't do charity work. Maybe they have time to take up a hobby like painting, or learning to fly, or growing vegetables, or going on courses they've always wanted to do. If I spend the next three years out here doing my masters instead of the things I do for DSs school at the moment, does that make me sad? I am not proposing to do it because it will give me a professional advantage, as my subject is not taught in the English speaking schools here, but because I want to do it and it interests me.

As to the point that a non-working mum doesn't benefit a teenager I disagree. My DS says I am much less stressed since I stopped teaching, and that I have more time for him, which is true. We get on much better than we did before, when I was juggling like many women, a job, a house, a child, commuting etc. We have time to talk at length, to chill out together, to go to places and see things, without me saying I need to do my planning/marking etc.

I suppose it is each to their own. I never thought when working that I would enjoy being a SAHM, but I am, and feel no guilt at curling up with a book for a couple of hours, or meeting friends for lunch. My DS knows that my life doesn't revolve around him, but the change in our relationship since I've stopped working points to the fact that something had to give, and I'm glad it was my job.

Oh god Scatty and wall of silence that is tough
I know a lot of mothers of friends who went sort of bitter and cross when their children left home and were having a great time and earning money in London or wherever. Like they felt cheated of their time or something. Truly depressing.

I think women often lose their nerve about going back to work. You have, say, three kids and that oculd be a decade out of work. And your industry will have moved on and there are always young, childfree people willing to work all sorts of hous. And they are a bit nervous and don't know where to find help.

Plus some people can make a life out of homemaking. They say they can anyway and I see no reason to disbelieve them.

Well, it makes working a bit easier as my Mother always wanted me to be something rather than her.

To refer to OP I have a credit card that I buy everything on from groceries to shoes for the boys and everything in between. DH pays that every month but he knows he can trust me not to be frivolous and any major purchases are discussed.

I have child benefit paid into my own account and I use that for cash withdrawals for things like coffee at play centres and paying my son in, those odd pounds that they require at school for baking ingredients, world book day etc.

I don't feel like I am a kept woman, I worked full time before my ds1 was born and then returned to work part time after my maternity leave. I am lucky that DH earns a great deal more money than I am capable of and so as I can be a sahm then I will be.

To answer the other "a sahm forever" comments, my mum worked and I know times have changed but when we were poorly we were handed over to neighbours to be looked after as she could not have the time off work. It was also heartbreaking to be stood waiting for someone to turn up to school to collect me because my Mum/Dad had been stuck in a meeting or traffic. So as it stands I do not have any intention of returning to work even when my youngest goes to school.

I do not imagine for one minute that I will sit on my backside all day watching the likes of Jeremy Kyle, or doing "lunch" to fill my time. I am planning to enjoy myself and if my children need me then I am there. My DH's mother was a sahm and he is 100% behind me not returning to work.

I have witnessed in the last few months alone a number of my friends returning to work and inevitable juggling of work, collecting children from school and childcare arrangements and the stress levels increasing that they did not have when our children were in preschool.

My friend has just given up her well paid job to work in a school to enable her to have the same holidays as her children. She was tired of taking holiday from work to look after her children for a few days and not having the benefit of enjoying time with her DH and being a family because when she was back at work in those same holidays he was then home looking after the children.

I love being a sahm. I do not resent giving up my job to look after my children.

have not read all of the thread, I work 4 days dh works full time he earns about a thirf more than me. 50% of each of our salaries goes into a joint account for mortgage, bills dds stuff. The other 50% go into our own bank accounts me for clothes, hair, petrol etc. We take it in turns paying for meals out, although dh is v v generous.

Me being a SAHM has never been an option either in real terms or hypothetically if dh earned enough to pay for everything. I would love to just work 3 days but it's not financially viable at the moment.

Because of this I feel there is equity in our relationship, we both do the housework and childcare equally. We're very very busy.

The 2 friends I have who're SAHMs are not good adverts for it TBH. They're frazzled and resentful whilst at the same time too scared to return to work. I appreciate it's not like this for everyone but it's just the examples I've seen.

Personally I could NEVER be totally financially dependent on a man, I do think it's about role e input and attention she models as well, my Mum worked hard and neither me nor my sister ever felt hard done by in terms of the attention she gave us. I did and still do admire her for the energy she devoted to us, her home and her career and see it as something to aspire to.

My friend is a SAHM her dh works 6 days a week running his own business, I think he'd be quite keen for her to do some sort of work but she prefers not to. On Sundays they both feel they're entitled to a "day off". He sees this as an opportunity for golf and a lie in, she sees it as a day to herself without doing all the care for dd. It causes huge problems between them.

TBH I can see both sides, she's made a commitment to bring up their family and keeping a lovely home but he's facilitated it. And everytime I text her she always seems to be shopping!

Our "days off" are spent looking after our dd, sorting the house out and doing stuff as a family. Every six weeks or so one or other of us may go to see a friend for the day or something similar. That's how we get our "me" time.

Joint account, you manage all money, and sit down and explain all the things you do that enable him to get paid until you believe he truly values you and sees your contributiont o your family as being just as important as his.

I don't think that if you resent it it is at all a good solutions for anyone.
I choose to stay at home for now but I don't resent it at all.
It also helps that dh did stay at home for a few months and fully understands what is involved.

I think it is always a balance of what you feel is best for your kids and what you can be happy with / live with.

otherwise it is a monumental waste of time

Was about to post argumentative reply to you pph as I have no intention of returning to work. By the time kids are at secondary and it would be practical for me to do so I very much hope that dh will have retired as well. But I then saw your acceptance of voluntary work as an alternative to paid so qualify. As a SAHM who does a great imitation of a 50's wife at the moment, enabling dh to concentrate on work exclusively, I can't do anything that puts any pressure on him with regards to childcare. But I still manage to fit in running the local pre-school, and when I get rid of that next year will be running the school cookery club (see how 50's I am) and hopefully joining cod as a mag.

Haven't read the whole thread but to answer the OP - no it's not an issue at all. The money I spend on stuff for me (and I'm not exactly high maintenance) is money I have earned through childcare, accountancy, cooking, cleaning, companionship, the extras involved in OT and SALT exercises for 2 of the DCs, gardening etc etc.

He has a career which involves working away for much of the week, and I enable him, through my choice, to become successful. It's our money, we're a team and I have absolutely no qualms about spending some of it on Bobbi Brown foundation .

It was an issue for me so we have changed the way we do things with money.
each month the taxcredit child benefit and another amount get transfered into "my" account not for family stuff but for "me".
I don't spend it all most months in fact it is lovely that I know I could agree to go away with friends for the weekend without having to think about the money.

I have decided that out of that money I am going to pay a cleaner 2 hours a week to free up time for me to go swimming with DS2.

I did feel a little beholden to DH - now I don't.

In answer to the OP - Yes.

Our decision for me not to return to work was made when we were financially in a position to make it viable. To begin with it was fine, DH paid money into my bank account and wasn't really concerned about how I spent it (although I was sensible with it).

Things have changed more recently and our finances have been severely stretched. I was unable to return to work because the change coincided with me being pregnant with DS2. I am now in a position where I feel that I have to justify every penny that I spend to DH - even if it is on groceries (which it almost always is).

I used to be fairly independant, financially and socially, and I find the current situation quite stressful and it has definitely affected my relationship with DH quite a lot....

Especially as his family now seem on a mission to find me a little part-time job

Its not an issue until he decides he`s had enough of his loyal supportive wife & wants a Divorce.

We had the whole shared finances thing & me being a SAHM & supporting H in his demanding job where hes often away for days on end & regularly in the evenings making it hard for me to do any more than a part time job to fit in with school hours wasnt an issue (or so I thought) until H suddenly decided hed had enough of being a family man after 9 years.

All of a sudden im a lazy cow & a leech & not entitled to anything.

no, but it affects me. adversely.

I am never going back to work and can't actually see why it is anyone elses business.
i worked for 18 years before I became a SAHM and the things I do now quite manage to fill my time.
I have things within my circumstances that i suspect might be sufficient 'justification' for those who seem to have such a problem with a woman choosing to be a mother and a run a home. But it remains extraoridnary to me that people can make judgemants about someone regardingtheir children and their home life as sufficiently important that one parters devotes their full time to it.

Why do these threads always result in woment bashing women.
To think someone who knows fuck all about me is making a 'moral' judgement on how I live my life leaves me very .

agree pagwatch, i couldnt give a flying fck what any stranger thinks of my life/choices/circs.

peacelily - I think you make a good point about how it is easier to share parenting and things like housework equally between you when you are both working outside the home as well. I have definitely seen resentments building up more among friends where one parent is at home full time. It's as if there's a competition between who has it hardest. Whereas when you both work outside the home, I think you're more inclined to see yourselves as equal parents/providers.
Scattybird - your comment
'my Mother always wanted me to be something rather than her' is a really interesting one. I think part of the reason I've always worked (P/T when kids were little and then F/T) is that I didnt want my children to think I had aspirations for them to do well at school, go to University and get good jobs, while I was sitting at home. I think this would give them a rather mixed message.

I firmly believe it is all about choice, and perhaps that choice can include any or all of the following - full or pt work, charity work, further education, volunteering at school, running preschool, PTA, developing a hobby which may (or not !) lead to an income in time, eg garden design, writing, photography.

Even though I'm a sahm of 4 and still v. busy with their needs, I can see the blue sky ahead and don't want them to be my life's sole work, with a resulting redundancy when they're all gone. I don't want to turn in to my Mum !

My mother tells me that froma young age she wanted nothing more than to be a sahm - fine up to a point - but was rather nastily, to my mind, openly resentful at having to work 9-5 for a few (7 or 8 ?) years when i was 11-18 or 19. She is very old fashioned and used to gripe to me - yes at age 11 - that "X doesn't have to work, Y keeps her at home", etc. During my mid teens she'd go on and on about "not being there" when I got in. I could easily cope for an hour fgs ! Then my father took early retirement so there was a year when she worked and he didn't. She was massively resentful, and used to insist on lifts there and back twice a day to the job which was a mile away. A mile is to be walked, surely, or there was a bus to the door.

She is not even 70 now and openly admits she is lonely (Dad died 2 years ago). Getting off the phone is the aural equivalent of prising a toddler off your leg; trying to say goodbye can take minutes even if I insist several times I've got to go now. She has never learned to drive, has given up gardening which she used to enjoy - partly failing health but partly apathy i think. I find her pitifully needy and always did tbh. I have encouraged her to join a book group maybe, or let me get her onto the internet "Oh no all that's too fast for me", but to no avail. Sadly she is hard work, fussy and demanding when she visits, though she's fond of the gcs. It's as if she just wants to be looked after, and boy does she let you know it.

It's very important to look outwards and keep a spark of enthusiasm for something, but it so doesn't have to be paid work ! I've wanted to write for a long time and this year have been trying to produce some printable work. That will develop further, I hope, as my children grow. Youngest is at preschool and we're not planning any more, so that's my new horizon looming for now.

I think it varies very much from person to person: and how much work/occupation matters to you, how you feel about your partner's career, and so on.

I'm with PPH. I do find, at the same time, that I am making some decisions about the number of hours I work that differ from my partner's - but ultimately, having my own career matters very much, to both of us. And if I'd chucked it in, that would matter - detrimentally - too.

And I bloody shudder at the idea of the Inferiorettes, much as I love them, constituting my life's work.

Mrspanic - what a thought provoking post. I can see parallels with my own mother - although she wasnt as extreme. She also told me that she wanted nothing more than to be a SAHM. I agree that was fine up to a point, but it got to the stage when my siblings and I were all at school and for years she still didnt work. We could afford to live on my father's income, but there wasnt a lot of money spare, and tbh I did feel resentful at not always having new clothes, never having a holiday abroad. That may sound shallow, but I think it's important to children once they're at school and more aware of the outside world that they are able to experience things which their peers do. Even when we were around 12/13, my mother took a very low status job which would fit around school times - and as Mrspanic says, at these age, teenagers usually CRAVE a bit of independence. I would have loved to arrive home from school and have an hour or two to myself - feeling grown up. I do think mums can sometimes convince themselves that their kids need them, when really it's that THEY need their kids! It doesnt have to be paid work (although I think paid work does have huge advantages, mainly that being paid to do something makes you feel valued in a very tangible way - someone thinks you are worth paying for your skills). But yes, everyone owes it to themselves and to their children to have a part of your life that is fresh and outward looking.

I really dont think that it is the 'being paid' part that affects a relationship, I think it is attitude towards it that affects a relationship.

When I was married and at home, exh never asked me if I wanted/needed any money. I had to ask ALL the time. It was a power/control thing i think. I hated it and also felt as though i had to justify every purchase. This was, in hindsight, NOTHING to do with 'money' but everything to do with how we felt about money. And not being able to talk about it/see each other's view.

He once designed a whole excel document detailing all out ins and outs and then sat me in front of it to show me where 'I spent all HIS money'. I suppose I learnt how to budget this way, but it was control rather than compassion and working together.