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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Dilemma over xmas contact with ex and DD

57 replies

MyOldMansADustman0 · 07/12/2023 11:30

DD has supervised contact centre contact with her father (because of DV)
Has been ongoing for several years.
He has fortnightly contact and I have stuck rigidly to the order. I have missed a couple of sessions due to illness, but I have immediately made them up and therefore have not missed any contact whatsoever for the duration of the order.
One thing I find a sticking point is the moral dilemma over birthdays and christmas.
I absolutely cannot bear the thought of my DD thinking her father doesn't care about her on her birthday and xmas's, so I have always offered him an additional supervised contact near her birthday or xmas.
We have a dilemma historically where the contact centre chooses to close over xmas so DD goes up to 4 weeks without a session as his last session is always the week or two weeks before xmas.
I am wondering if I should offer an xmas contact?
The issue I have is, am I making a rod for my own back?
I absolutely despise the man, but for all intents and purposes I have ALWAYS prioritised DD's needs over my own which is why I have never opted to frustrate contact in anyway.
We are approaching final hearing stage and I am worried by doing this it will be an expectation.
To note - he NEVER asks to see her on birthdays or xmas's, takes no involvement or interest in school, school have never heard from him. He doesn't know anything about her life or what activities she does, what her interests are, what her friends are called.
Just want some advice on the morality of it vs the future expectations.

OP posts:
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 07/12/2023 11:33

If he doesn’t ask for it then don’t offer.

Yes, it’s not nice for her to not see him on Christmas and birthdays, but if he has no interest in seeing her (which he doesn’t if he doesn’t ask) then it’s better to have it as normal from as young as possible that birthday and Christmas is Mum time.

You can’t make him interested. Took me a long time to accept that with my ex and stop offering all sorts of extra time.

RatherBeRiding · 07/12/2023 11:35

Agree with every word YetMore says. Leave things as they are.

Original poster
MyOldMansADustman0 · 07/12/2023 11:36

I just worry about her that's all, it is the thought of her feeling like he doesn't care that gets me.
But also agree with you that he clearly isn't interested, he has never asked - it's always been me that offers.

OP posts:
NorthernSpirit · 07/12/2023 11:40

It’s so nice to hear that you are facilitating contact under such difficult circumstances.

How old is your daughter? What does she want to do?

Original poster
MyOldMansADustman0 · 07/12/2023 11:44

DD is 5.
I told her she will have her xmas with mummy and mummy's family, but that her father will give her her presents and celebrate xmas with her at the contact centre so essentially she will have two Christmas's.
She hasn't specified actually WANTING to see him over xmas, I think she's more interested in presents TBH.
I know DD, if she has a choice between staying at home and going to the contact centre, she will want to stay at home. It is a very long journey for her there and back and she hates it.
So it is down to me to facilitate and be positive about it, as much as I hate it with every fibre of my being.. this is where I feel the moral dilemma.

OP posts:
DisforDarkChocolate · 07/12/2023 11:46

You can't hide the fact he doesn't care. She will have picked up he doesn't know about her school, her friends or that he never asks for extra contact.

Stick to the order, your doing your best. You don't need to do more

Epidote · 07/12/2023 11:48

Don't do it. By the sound of it your daughter already knows more than you may think and she is in use to the actual arrangement.

Make her Xmas a lovely day with your family this and the years to come.

He can give her any presents any time in the standard visit.

AmazingDayz · 07/12/2023 11:52

He’s never asked so no I wouldn’t.

Orangeteatime · 07/12/2023 11:52

If she asks why she can't see him near to Christmas, the reason is the contact centre is closed then. You don't need to frame it around whether he wants to see her. It's not possible because the contact centre is closed.
The way your doing things now is the best way for your DD and you. It is consistent and safe for her and (I hope) manageable for you. No need to mess with what's working.

cestlavielife · 07/12/2023 11:54

Stop trying to make it seem he cares if he does not. Be truthful. Dd must know ehy a contact centre is used in simple terms
So you just say
"You ll see dad in xx weeks

The centre is closed. "
End of.
Is up to him if he gets her presents or not.
Does she hate going or just hates the drive there ?

If she desperate to see him before four weeks and you can organize alt. contact centre do that.

But she has you. So....she can wait. If he gets her presents is bonus

Original poster
MyOldMansADustman0 · 07/12/2023 11:56

I guess you're all right, it's only because in previous years I have offered. I offered him a birthday contact this year and to speak to her via facetime on her actual birthday (supervised by the contact centre).
I suppose I am forcing the issue a bit too much when all I really need to do is just stick to the court order which is what I have done, nobody can say I haven't.
I don't NEED to offer him anything additional, but if there is the slightest chance he will get unsupervised contact (which I am opposing) then I would like to say I have tried to do everything I can to promote his relationship with her. The reason he has one is because of me. If I went out of my way to tell DD the truth, I would have completely alienated her from him as she is with me 99% of the time. Whilst I haven't LIED to her, I have shielded her from the extent of the truth.
I think I will just wait until he asks, but I know he won't.

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 07/12/2023 11:57

MyOldMansADustman0 · 07/12/2023 11:36

I just worry about her that's all, it is the thought of her feeling like he doesn't care that gets me.
But also agree with you that he clearly isn't interested, he has never asked - it's always been me that offers.

You cannot prevent this.
If she is struggling or asking or anxious then get a family therapist involved or play therapist.
But if you are providing safe secure home with visits to dad then that s all you do .dont project.
Make it her normal.
Families come in different forms.

clarebear111 · 07/12/2023 12:00

It sounds like you are being very conscientious, OP, which is admirable, but the onus is not on you to parent for him. It is up to your DD's father to fulfil the role of father, whatever that means to him.

If I were you, I would enjoy my Christmas with your lovely DD and family. You can't control what he does.

Malificent1 · 07/12/2023 12:05

Be very matter of fact with her. The contact centre is closed so the staff can spend time with their own families. She’ll see her dad when the centre is open again. The end.

At 5 she’ll be able to understand this, and it won’t enter her head that she hasn’t seen him because he doesn’t care.

BoohooWoohoo · 07/12/2023 12:05

If you force it too strongly then you are just making the day that she realises that he’s shit earlier.
It’s not your fault that a contact centre is needed and they close over Christmas. It sounds like your ex and dd go through the motions of time together but aren’t particularly bothered so l would let it go.

Tinkerbyebye · 07/12/2023 12:10

If he hasn’t asked I wouldn’t do. And harden your heart about her thinking he doesn’t care because he doesn’t does he?

you have facilitated contact that’s all that matters

Original poster
MyOldMansADustman0 · 07/12/2023 12:14

TBF, she NEVER asks for him, NEVER says she misses him, NEVER asks me to contact him etc.
I suppose, in my mind - all I wanted to do was just the right thing.

OP posts:
Howmuchtohireahitman · 07/12/2023 12:16

MyOldMansADustman0 · 07/12/2023 11:36

I just worry about her that's all, it is the thought of her feeling like he doesn't care that gets me.
But also agree with you that he clearly isn't interested, he has never asked - it's always been me that offers.

The truth hurts sometimes. We can't protect our kids from everything. I think you making extra effort and sacrifices to make him look like a better father when really he's not that bothered is just setting her up for disappointment when he inevitably lets her down in the future. It's not your responsibility to make her feel loved by her father.

It is what it is. Her dad's a dick. One day she'll work that out for herself if she hasn't already.

Bonbon21 · 07/12/2023 12:20

Stick to the court order.
If he wants to step up and actually be a father he will ask.
She is only 5, so what you tell her will be accepted.
She will learn in her own time that her father is a disappointment.
They all do.

notmorezoom · 07/12/2023 12:21

Why are you pretending to her that this man cares?

Original poster
MyOldMansADustman0 · 07/12/2023 12:23

Howmuchtohireahitman · 07/12/2023 12:16

The truth hurts sometimes. We can't protect our kids from everything. I think you making extra effort and sacrifices to make him look like a better father when really he's not that bothered is just setting her up for disappointment when he inevitably lets her down in the future. It's not your responsibility to make her feel loved by her father.

It is what it is. Her dad's a dick. One day she'll work that out for herself if she hasn't already.

Show quote history

You are definitely right here.

OP posts:
Howmuchtohireahitman · 07/12/2023 12:24

Also, can I just add, it's refreshing to hear a mother doing her best to facilitate a relationship between her child and their father despite him not being a good dad. All too often you hear of mothers withholding contact from good dad's as a way of point scoring or retaining control over their ex.

Well done for putting your child first. Her dad may not be up to much but it seems that she has a great mum who will always do what's best for her.

Facilitating the contact is enough. Don't go above and beyond for someone who shows no interest in being more involved in her life.

Original poster
MyOldMansADustman0 · 07/12/2023 12:29

Howmuchtohireahitman · 07/12/2023 12:24

Also, can I just add, it's refreshing to hear a mother doing her best to facilitate a relationship between her child and their father despite him not being a good dad. All too often you hear of mothers withholding contact from good dad's as a way of point scoring or retaining control over their ex.

Well done for putting your child first. Her dad may not be up to much but it seems that she has a great mum who will always do what's best for her.

Facilitating the contact is enough. Don't go above and beyond for someone who shows no interest in being more involved in her life.

Thank you, that means a lot.
She's been through enough with having to leave the family home and fleeing and everything else. She's spoken to so many professionals and I feel as if she's been metaphorically prodded and probed enough. I just want her to be happy and safe and for her to be a child and not be dragged into grown up arguments.
However, like you say - I can't make him be a good dad. I can only do what I can do until she wants to step up (but he doesn't and won't) I guess the sad thing is, she just deserves better as a father.
I'll hold off offering anything for now.

OP posts:
MsClarice · 07/12/2023 12:30

You are doing more than enough and I'm sorry you have to even facilitate contact with a violent man.
If you are seen to be offering extra, wouldn't that be something he could use to try to get unsupervised contact? Almost suggesting he is "safe"?

CountryStore · 07/12/2023 12:32

Howmuchtohireahitman · 07/12/2023 12:24

Also, can I just add, it's refreshing to hear a mother doing her best to facilitate a relationship between her child and their father despite him not being a good dad. All too often you hear of mothers withholding contact from good dad's as a way of point scoring or retaining control over their ex.

Well done for putting your child first. Her dad may not be up to much but it seems that she has a great mum who will always do what's best for her.

Facilitating the contact is enough. Don't go above and beyond for someone who shows no interest in being more involved in her life.

The other side of this is why do we, as a society, apparently see it as important that a man who has been violent towards the child's mum should have any right to see the child? He should forfeit his parental rights, but obviously still be made to pay the maintenance. The child should get the full facts and decide when she's old enough of she wants to see him.
Meanwhile, what actually happens is the mum runs round getting the kid to the contact centre, pretending that the DV hasn't happened in case anyone thinks badly of her (!) the dad probably pays her fuck all, and the mum looks like a bitch if she ever questions any of it 😳

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