Staying in a marriage for security, or leaving for freedom?

[Raspberrysnowball]

Just hoping to get some thoughts on my situation, more of a WWYD really!

It's about my marriage - been married to my DH for 23 years. Where do I start. It all seems so complicated. It's hard to sum up, and give an objective picture of a long marriage in a few paragraphs, but I will try!

Ever since I've known him, DH has been very anxious and depressed. This has affected everything in our lives, particularly his work, which he always struggled with. Over the years he was emotionally abusive to me - angry, slamming doors, walking off from me when we were out somewhere and not coming back, slamming the phone down on me etc, ignoring me for days.

However, he could also be nice and kind. The horrible behaviour seemed to stem from when he was very stressed with work. We have three dc, all now teens, and one with diagnosed SN, but we suspect one of the others also has SN. I also think that DH has some SN, and he agrees.

DH did not do any childcare or nights or housework when the dc were small as he said he couldn't cope with that as well as work. I was a SAHM for many years but went back to work a couple of years ago.

Basically DH's horrible behaviour came to a head in lockdown. He was awful, but kept blaming me for his behaviour. I thought I was going to have a breakdown with the stress.

Earlier on this year DH changed jobs and is now working part time on a much lower income job. His behaviour has greatly improved, and he is not angry, passive aggressive or horrible any more. He has briefly apologised for his behaviour over the years but only when I brought it up, and to be honest does not seem to really understand how he was, or the effect it had on me.

Sorry for the long background, but I wanted to give an overview. There is probably a lot I have missed out - I also wanted to say that I came into the relationship with childhood trauma as I had a very selfish and disengaged dad. I have spent years going to therapy, doing self development etc and feel a much stronger person, less emotional and more balanced.

The other things to mention are that DH does not do any housework or gardening. I do it all, as well as school and dc admin, organising social lives, Christmas, birthdays, holidays etc. Over the past few years there has been no intimacy or affection in our relationship - I brought it up for a while but DH just said that the feeling is not there any more for him.

When DH is at home, he spends all the time watching TV or doing hobbies. He is always in the house as be only works part time from home and I feel like I don't have any space.

I have been feeling so stressed and conflicted about this situation for years. It reached a head a couple of months ago and I said to DH that we would have to separate. He was angry and upset. He says that we owe it to the dc to provide a stable family life. We worked out the finances and if we split it is going to be a real struggle for us both. The main issue really though is that neither of us want to disrupt the dc - they are either going through or approaching exam years and are all sensitive.

If we split up we would both have to live in a much smaller house or flat, in a not very nice area. I would probably be eligible for benefits to top up my salary. I doubt there would be any money for luxuries, holidays etc. It would be a struggle. Whereas now we are in a nice family home and can afford a holiday and some luxuries eg gym membership etc.

I was again speaking about this with DH yesterday and he said that he would be fine with me having an affair if it means the family could stay together. I just don't think I could do that, it would add complication to an already very difficult situation.

I just don't know what to do. I've thought that if I stayed, I would now feel strong enough to have our life more on my terms, whereas I have felt that we are are have always lived in the way that DH wants. I would say to my DH that we need to get a cleaner and finish doing up the house etc (he always got angry if I suggested those before as apparently "we can't afford it"). So currently the house is half renovated and unfinished. I would also say that I want to have friends and family over sometimes without sulks and drama from DH.

But I don't know if that would be enough. I don't know if after a while he would revert back to being moody, resisting everything, being controlling etc.

Having said everything about his negative traits, he loves the dc, and he is loyal, honest and reliable. I feel like he's a friend and I do care for him deeply.

It's just that I would like a relationship where there is physical and emotional connection, where the other one is interested in me as a person, we share similar goals and outlook on how we want to live life. I would be fine alone, I'm not counting on another relationship, I was just saying that if I have a relationship, I would want the above, otherwise I'd rather not be in one.

I have been feeling in conflict for months and I am in turmoil. I just want to make a decision and move on with my life. DH and I have had marriage counselling a few years ago and last year, but nothing really came of it. I'm currently having individual counselling, which is good to help clarify my thoughts, but obviously the counsellor can't tell me what the best thing to do would be!

Do I stay - the dc seem happy, dh is content and now seems more mentally stable, we are financially comfortable. But I don't feel happy in the relationship, we want different things out of life, I feel restricted, stifled, sad because of the way I was treated for years, and sad because of the lack of emotional connection and intimacy. Although we do sometimes have nice times together as a family which I really like.

Or do I leave - dc would be so upset and uprooted, DH would be angry. All of our standard of living would be greatly reduced, and life would be a struggle. DH has already said that he would want 50/50 custody so the dc would have to keep going from one house to another. But I would not have to be in a relationship where I am unhappy, I would have freedom and autonomy over my life.

I woke up this morning in my nice bedroom, the dc were laughing and chatting getting ready for school, it was a nice family morning. I thought "What the hell am i thinking, to want to destroy all of this?" But i feel so unhappy inside. Maybe I should just go on anti depressants to get through it.

It's so so difficult!

Sorry it was too long to wade through it word by word but at the point where your husband is suggesting you sleep with someone else its obvious this relationship has run its course. I guess you are in your 40's so actually only half way through your life and why would you want to continue with this? I just dont get how people think haviing a naice house and the luxuries is more important than their dignity and self worth. Please dont think your kids are unaware of this dysfunctional relationship, they arent. your dc are teens so the shared custody issue would only be for a few years. this post reads like you know what needs to happen but you are trying to talk yourself out of it. I guarantee you. this is not going to get better and the longer you leave it the harder it will get. you have tried lots of different things but nothing has made a difference. dont waste half your life living with someone you dont love. you also talk about being on benefits if you leave. have you looked into this to be sure that you would be? can you get a better job with more hours? you need to move on from the "woe is me my life is awful" hand wringing and get the information you need and the strategies developed to move on. Or you could just stay and wait another 10 years and wake up one morning realising that you have wasted your life.

@mummymeister sorry, I know it was a very long post!

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I'm in my late forties.

"I just dont get how people think haviing a naice house and the luxuries is more important than their dignity and self worth."

If it was just me, I would move out tomorrow without a thought of the house or any luxuries. I know I mentioned the gym membership but that's not in any way a deal breaker. It is about the standard of living and house that we would be able to provide for the dc if we separate.
Yes, I think I need to look more into the benefits situation.

dont waste half your life living with someone you dont love.

This is another issue that I am struggling with - I feel I do love DH, but maybe more as a friend/ brother. He obviously has flaws but so does everyone, and he also has good points. It's not a romantic love with attraction and emotional intimacy, but I keep thinking maybe that's unrealistic to still have that in a long marriage.

Reading between the lines there are threads about ASD relationships that you might find interesting.

@SquirrelSoShiny yes, I have suspected my DH has ASD. I have looked at some of the threads about ASD relationships and I can definitely see similarities. I actually feel sorry for DH at times, and I don't want to make his life any harder than he finds it already, but equally it's a situation that I'm finding very difficult.

How old are your children?

You will find support and understanding there whatever you decide to do.

@determinedtomakethiswork they are 13, 15 and 17

Op this sounds awful in so many ways. Can you imagine in a normal loving relationship one party being happy for the other to have an affair? You talk a lot about you going to counselling, but what’s he doing to change? The way he speaks to you seems dependent on his stress at work so if got made redundant or got a new boss he’d be justified in being emotionally abusive to you?

I don’t know if it would help for you to make a practical plan for what you need to do to leave. Often it helps me to break tasks down, do to do lists and feel like I’m achieving something.

so you could do a 12 month plan on your phone notes app

• slowly declutter your house room by room (to make decorating / diy easier and to help you leave)
• paint the smallest room between Xmas and the new year
• research where you want to live - schools etc
• Start a savings account to help you move out and economise if you’re able to
• have one appointment with a solicitor to get a sense of what you would be entitled to
• yoga / exercise / hobby to boost your mental health

If you do all these things and decide not to move out you’ll still be in a better shape mentally and financially but if you then move out having the house finished will also help you get the most money from it.

@stealthninjamum "You talk a lot about you going to counselling, but what’s he doing to change?"

That's a good point - he's doing nothing to change. To be fair, he has gone to counselling in the past, but he says now that he doesn't think it will help if he went again. I think he feels that he is now in his late forties, he doesn't have the capacity to change and he wants to just be how he is.

Thank you for the practical advice - that is so helpful. I have felt paralysed and like I don't know what to do, but seeing your list has helped me. And as you say, whatever I decide to do, it will be more positive if I have worked on these things.

Your DC are 13,15 and 17. that means realistically in 5 years time none of them will probably be living at home. they arent babies they will understand if you talk things through with them. Yes it will be different. but isnt that kind of the point that it will be different and not what you have now. you love him but you arent in love with him and thats the difference. I have been married over 30 years I still love my husband in an emotional and physical sense and know neither of us would ever, ever suggest the other had an affair. Of course my dh has flaws but he is still the love of my life and in everything he does he thinks about me and puts me first. does your dh do this?

I was living that life. Was with DH for 24 years, he too could be angry, depress, moody, shouty and me and DS lived on egg shells a lot of the time.

I left. And hard and awful as it was, 9 years later my life is peaceful and calm, no eggshells left.

Your DH saying he would be ok if you had an affair shows that he has checked out of your marriage.

Leave OP, this will not improve.

If you do what you always done
You will get what you've always got

There is a new happier life waiting for you.

I would plan your exit from this marriage with due care and attention. I would also seek legal advice as knowledge in this area is also power.

ASD does not equal abuse and it may well be he is not on any spectrum at all. There is no justification or excuse for his abuses of you and in turn your kids who have picked up on your unhappiness. From what you write of him he is your typical male abuser who has shown you the nice and nasty cycle of abuse throughout your marriage. Choose freedom

Your parents taught you a lot of damaging lessons about relationships and you have married a man perhaps not all that dissimilar to your father.

Waiting potentially till your youngest child leaves home is a terrible idea and will further teach them damaging lessons about relationships. You would not want any of your children to suffer similar but actions here speak louder than words. You are showing then that a happy marriage is not their right. Teach them better lessons about relationships and show them
the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none.

By the way most of my sons friends went to uni and after 3 years returned home. Even now many of them still live with their parents
out of necessity, they cannot afford to
move out. They do not all go to uni let alone live away from home at 18.

Leave and be happy. How can you have a happy relationship with someone when you're so enmeshed with someone else? No-one is going to want that with someone that still lives with their ex, and why would you? Plus resentment will build on both sides.

Would you rather have fewer luxuries or be unhappy with him for the rest of your life? Doesn't sound like you love each other and not a great example for the children. Please don't just stay together for the children.

“He wants to just be how he is” - what does he think he is like? Because he does not seem to have insight into his behaviour or the effect on you. In your shoes this would not give me confidence that he has the mental agility or is prepared to do the work to accommodate the changes you need.

With his blessings it wouldn't be an affair but an open marriage. You can find freedom in your head in a prison cell,it's all how you frame it. Change the way you think and be practical, you are lucky you could have your cake and eat it.

I've been in a similar situation and have stayed. It's easy to say there's a better life waiting for you - but is there really? I know there would be a financially poorer life waiting for me, living alone god knows where, having to do everything myself with kids that are really affected by the split. You have a different view IMO when you've been with someone for 20 years+.

I also have the opportunity for an open marriage but it will wait until the kids have finished school. I haven't lost my self worth, I'm doing what is currently best for me and if things change then I will do what is best for me then. I have never walked on egg shells and never would. I would never have married for money but it's naive to think that money doesn't make life a lot easier and nicer - and two incomes go a lot further than one.

The one big difference between our situations though is that my OH pulls his weight around the house - although the mental load tends to fall to me. You know he wants you to stay together though so if you decide to stay then perhaps you need to think about what you need from him to make it work. I would write a list and say 'if we're going to stay together for the sake of the children then these are things I need you to do to make it ok for me'.

@mummymeister "Of course my dh has flaws but he is still the love of my life and in everything he does he thinks about me and puts me first. does your dh do this?"

On a day to day level, no - I wouldn't say he thinks about me and puts me first. But he has said to me that although he doesn't love me in a romantic way anymore, he still loves me. He thinks the type of love he has for me is just what happens in a long term marriage. It's difficult to explain, but he will occasionally clean my windscreen, or tell me to be careful on the roads as it's wet or something like that, although it's very inconsistent. I know he would be concerned if I had a medical problem or something. He is financially responsible and I have no doubt that he would be fair financially if we split. I feel its a kind of old fashioned, dutiful type love, if that makes sense.

@Notaboutthebass "How can you have a happy relationship with someone when you're so enmeshed with someone else? No-one is going to want that with someone that still lives with their ex, and why would you? Plus resentment will build on both sides."

Yes, that's exactly what I feel. I just cannot imagine the logistics of everything, and I couldn't give myself fully to a new relationship whilst still living with my DH and dc - even though my DH says he would be fine with it.

@Shaggalicious it's an interesting perspective, and I have wondered if I could do that, ie change the way I think, and be practical. The thing is, for me a relationship, or "affair" with someone else would not just be about going off to have sex with someone - it would be about having a real connection, shared goals, way of life etc, so I don't really think that would be compatible with still being married and living in the family home with our dc. I mean, I wouldn't feel comfortable going out and about with them in case someone I knew saw us, it would feel very furtive.

I read your op, I think, you have so little autonomy over your life and envrinment if you stay together. Visitors, decorations it's all affected by the fact it it's his home too.
And you have no prospect of enjoying a fully connected relationship.
Not that there is any guarantee of finding that anyway.
If you separate properly you will be living a more humble but totally yours life.
I think given how put upon you've been and how many compromises you've already spent your life making it would be nice to experience being you without impositions from other people's emotional complexities.
But given you both have transparency over how you feel about the marriage, you could manage it very carefully so the DC are guided slowly through the changes for minimal distress perhaps?
Any possibility of increase of your own income in the future?

@itsmyp4rty all your points are ones I have been considering too - is there really a better life out there if we left? And we know for definite that we would be financially worse off, in a worse area to live, with upset dc, so the benefits would have to be very good to make up for all that.

"You know he wants you to stay together though so if you decide to stay then perhaps you need to think about what you need from him to make it work. I would write a list and say 'if we're going to stay together for the sake of the children then these are things I need you to do to make it ok for me'."

That's good advice. I think I am going to have to look at all this as a long term plan. If for example I think about what I would need him to do/allow to make life ok or bearable for me and he does them, then I can see if that makes a difference to how I feel.

I don't know, I think for me the fundamental thing is not feeling loved in a deep way, plus the potential that he could get stressed and angry again if something comes up. Even if the practical things were sorted eg he says we can get a cleaner, do up the house, he agrees to go out of the house much more so I have space to myself, he doesn't get moody when people are round, he pulls his weight more in the house - is that going to be enough if I just don't feel the emotional connection?

I don't know. I don't know if I'm being unrealistic of what to expect in a relationship when you're in your forties. And sorry if I seem to be going round in circles with what I'm saying - this is just what my mind has been like for months...!

Blimey OP, he has everything his own way, doesn't he. So lazy he'd rather you had an affair than have to make any effort towards you himself. Literally can't be bothered.
And any possible ND doesn't equal being a nasty git .
I'd look at increasing your income if possible and tell him he can bloody go back full-time.
If you can then afford to split, you won't be around to put up with him when he gets home.

But...it seems like he brings no happiness to the table, but rather drains it from you? Your kids know you are both unhappy. They know what a peevish, weak, lazy abusive excuse for a husband he is ( I'm sorry but he sounds appalling).
It's your choice if course, but being a bit poorer is no reason to stay in this horrible marriage.
Your kids are older now, get some ambition, re train, make some better money! Once you have sloughed off the joy drain you will no doubt have the mental and physical energy to achieve things you never dreamed of. Good luck!
Oh, and don't for one second assume he will be fair about money...that sounds very unlikely from my experience of similar men..

He is happy to stay the way it is because realistically what does he bring to the table? A part time wage and what else? He has a very easy life where you do everything, all housework, life admin etc. It isn't a partnership or marriage, it is like having another child surely.

I completely understand your reluctance to separate especially when your children are the age they are and will remember what life they had and what they have going forward if it is less. Would any of the children choose to live with their Dad? Could he claim maintenance from you for that? How would Christmas work? These are all things that stop women separating. Situations like these sometimes see men go for the 50/50 and all of a sudden they are competent fathers who have a clean and tidy house because they know that they are solely responsible. It happened to my friend, incompetent arsehole and now it is like a different person altogether, she is livid, where was this man when they were married and she was drowning in household responsibility.

Firstly I think a visit to a solicitor to see how it would all shake down is a good thing to just know. I think the suggestions made above ie getting on with things in the house and making a list of things that he has to do going forward are helpful and on that list is visitors without his attitude. I would look into hobbies for yourself outside of the home so you can go and do things you enjoy. I am not saying stay forever, nor even until your youngest is 18 but just knowing you have options to improve your life by either leaving or staying but with possible improved conditions.