Is this emotional abuse?

[jugglingeverything77]

My DH acts like this on and off- not all the time but on saturday we went out for his birthday dinner and it was awful. His friend and daughter, my mum and brother were there and our 3 kids. From the outset he set to embarass me. He first joked about how I spent more than I earn now I'm working in a shop and have access to the shops in town at lunchtimes (not true). I tried to defend myself but it kind of went on deaf ears. Then as soon as he realised later on that we may miss our train back home he rudely interrupted me talking to my family at our end of the table saying we have to go. Then he realised there was another later train so we decided to go for icecream. We started walking down the street and he says 'where are you going??' (in a way that implied we were stupid for walking that way) I said to get icecream he said we're going here (there was another one nearby) in a tone that insinuated we were dumb for not realising. In the icecream place he said more than once to his friend how selfish I was for not driving. erm we discussed it earlier in the week and decided to get the train in, not once did he mention he'd rather I drove -and it's not like it's far, it's a 10 minute journey home. He was irritated as we'd missed the train he wanted to get back but there were more later on.

I just felt like he was constantly criticizing me either in a jokey or more obvious/nasty way.

I would usually call him up on it when it happens as it has happened before but I couldn't do it in front of everyone and when we got home I just couldn't face a fight.

Is he also gaslighting me?? On a day to day basis he's not this bad however there are jokey comments on a regular basis about me being dumb (I'm not dumb I've just completed my 2nd degree). He has also in the past put me down in a jokey way in front of his and my parents. Its humiliating. He also says things like I'm rubbish at doing the food shopping as I don't do it properly and I forget things. He jokes about my driving- I've only had 2 crashes in the 25 years I've been driving and he's probably had similar. He jokes I never clean- I don't do enough but he does zero. (when I say this he goes on about how he takes the kids to all the clubs- which is true but he always has a counter arguement about everything to win every time)

I gave him a birthday card today and didn't even feel like putting 'lots of love from' as I felt so angry and I feel like his behaviour is chipping away at any love I have left for him.

Note: he's not always horrible, sometimes very loving and we can go for weeks being content/happy....

If you had a pint of water and somebody had put a few drops of urine in it, you wouldn't want to drink it would you? It would taint the whole pint.

This is what he's like. Most of the time he's okay but some of the time he ruins everything.

From what you've said, he sounds really horrible. I wouldn't want to be with him at all.

He's horrible, end of. He takes pleasure in making you feel bad, and he goes out of his way to deride and humiliate you in front of other people. This is such a terrible example for your kids.

Yeah it certainly feels like my marriage is tainted. I'm not sure whether to bring up his behaviour or not. TBH if I'd done it at the time it would have backfired- he'd been drinking (we both had) and he clearly thought I was in the wrong being selfish and not driving so he wouldn't have listened to me. But I also don't want him to think his behaviour was acceptable.

OR I wait until he's a shit again and then bring up that dinner...

Aquamarine1029 yeah I don't think they noticed particularly- but that doesn't mean that on some sort of level they aren't picking up that way of treating someone and that worries me a lot. He was pretty subtle so again, it didn't look like he was actually abusing me in front of everyone. BUT I do think maybe my brother has noticed...though he hasn't said anything.

and his friend must have -he was sober and he was talking to him about me being selfish- but he just laughed a bit- probably embarassed.

He also takes digs at my mum all the time- in a jokey way about her drinking and her age -she likes a drink sure but she's not an alcoholic! I think it annoys her too but she laughs it off and pretends to be annoyed with him. It just makes me cringe as I'd much rather he was just really nice to her. I know he doesn't really respect her or my brother so I guess the small jokey put downs are his way of showing it....

So you were selfish for not driving, but he wasn't selfish for not driving?

I think it is best to talk to them about these issues when you can have a rational discussion; tell him how he’s making you feel and that it’s not acceptable. His reaction will tell you what you need to know. If he apologises and takes proper steps to change then that’s great; but no way should you have to put up with him treating you like this.

determinedtomakethiswork well it was his birthday dinner and he's not drank plenty of times in the past when we've gone to pubs for dinner. I didn't think it was an issue as we were eating in town where we could get the train in. If he'd wanted to go to a pub I'd have happily driven. I just think that he didn't think I was selfish UNTIL we'd missed the train he wanted to get. It was only then that he started being pissed off at me and making snide nasty comments about how selfish I was.

Errolwasahero thank you- yes that sounds like a good idea. And I'm not sure how he'll react. Though he has taken steps in the past with the kids to improve- he was getting angry/shouty all the time and I told him he had to change. He went and saw a therapist and he's so much calmer with them now.

This is definitely emotional abuse. However as this have gone unchallenged for so long he probably doesn't think so now. You need to have a conversation with him how it's making you feel. Or better still, put your feelings in a letter. No accusations just your feelings. If he is a half decent man this ought to make him think

Tiredbeyondbelief I have challenged him plenty of times in the past. One time that stands out was about a year ago in London, we were meeting his sister in a restaurant and we got to the door and the person greeting us asked if we had a booking and I started to speak and he impatiently silenced me and then talked to her. I was furious. I told him right there and then to never do that to me again. It was so humiliating in front of the kids. It was like he was shushing an incompetent idiot or something. I have no idea why he did it.

Other times I have told him how the things he's said or his actions have hurt me. I've also pleaded with him in the past to just be nice to my mum as she's so easy to please- be nice to her and she'll think you're the best thing since sliced bread. They had a couple of arguments early on before we got married.

Yes all red flags I know but stupidly I married him anyway. I do often think these days what a mistake I made.....

but when things are good I'm content and happy and so are the kids. I'd hate to pull all of that down, to destroy what we have....and on top of that I'm only just starting a business, I'm financially reliant on him.

As you’ve talked to him and challenged him it would appear he’s a lost cause, except you say he did seek therapy a bit in the past so perhaps he is prepared to acknowledge it and try harder? Maybe couples’ counselling. Just be aware too that the times when things are ‘good’ might be because you aren’t rocking the boat, or you’re complying with him to keep the peace… if that is the case then things will only keep getting worse. You don’t have to leave now but you might want to think about how you will if you decide you want to in the future x

Whenever I see a post like this, my heart sinks a bit, because I know someone is probably starting the journey I started 2 years ago. Yes, it is emotional abuse IMO and it's the kind of thing my husband does to me. Undermining me in front of other people, talking over me and when I speak to someone in a group situation my husband just loves to say something else immediately afterwards to the same person on a different subject before they can reply to me, as though I haven't spoken at all. It's not only these behaviours of course, but these are similar to what you seem to have experienced lately. Nearly 2 years ago, I started to ask questions about my marriage and I've done a lot of research and reading and now I know my husband has narcissistic personality disorder, definitely. I don't know if yours does or not but he has behaviours in common with mine. I read a book called "The Gaslight Effect: You're not Crazy They're Gaslighting you" to start with and the scales fell from my eyes, I recognised nearly all the behaviours described in the book and walked round in a disbelieving daze for a while after. I've continued to educate myself and read and research and I've quietly been assembling an escape plan and now I have very nearly enough money and next week I start the first job I've had for years - yay! I would suggest that you start to discreetly educate yourself on the subject of emotionally abusive men and see what behaviours you recognise and whether you think it's worth trying to save your relationship or if it's a losing battle. I know mine can't be saved because narcissistic personality disorder is virtually untreatable and regardless of that I don't love him any more anyway, because of all the mind boggling crap I've endured. My husband isn't horrible all the time either by the way. Books I've read that helped are Lundy Bancroft "Why does he do that?", Dr Sarah Davies "How to leave a narcissist for good" and most recently Maddy Anholt's "How to leave your psychopath". Maddy Anholt's book is really good at combining humour with a serious message, despite the scary title! Emma Davey is a therapist specialising in narcissistic abuse and her website is helpful https://www.mytraumatherapy.co.uk/ And so is her app called Mynara. I'm not saying your husband does have narcissistic personality disorder, but all the resources above have lots of information about emotional abuse and mind games and should be useful tools for you to help you find out.

it sounds like he does these things when you're out with other people? Is he overcompensating for some perceived weakness in himself? Not that it's an excuse, but I do wonder. eg the man who earns less than his wife who then has to play the "big man" whenever you're out and about eg ostentatiously paying the bill or "taking charge" with a waitress etc.

Ditto, taking a higher achieving women down a few pegs in public to make themselves feel good. You know, "see, she might have two degrees and I'm just a chippy, but see how dumbs he is".

It's horrible. It's also sad because of course, no one else is thinking "wow, he earns less than his wife, he's such a loser" or "why is she with this dumbass who doesn't even have a degree?"

oh JadziaD he earns way more than me. He's the breadwinner, I've been a stay at home mum for years, just re-trained now and I'm starting my business but so far earning peanuts.

But there is something there that I can't pinpoint- why he feels the need to put me down in front of others- I haven't figured it out yet! He does it in front of his parents too with me, I used to feel so embarassed as he'd exaggerate something (say maybe my untidiness, or that I don't clean enough, or that I shop too much) and laugh about it. But it made me feel uncomfortable.

Turtletunes thanks for the info- I'll read that first book thanks and keep a note of the others. I may have to order from the bookshop in town though, don't want him seeing my purchases on amazon 😳.

I'm not sure if he's a narcissist, though he certainly gaslights me at times and belittles me/makes fun of me in front of others. Or will say things to make me feel guilty. For example today more than once has said how I'm so selfish (jokingly) for not getting him a birthday breakfast. Tbh I forgot that we usually do pastries for birthdays- I've baked him a bloody cake and given him pressies but he made sure to jibe about the forgotten breakfast.

there's lots of the little guilt trip jibes constantly -like if I make a coffee and not a tea for him - oh just get yourself one! Even down to not getting him a spoon for cereal if I get myself one. Instantly making me feel guilty.

He also guilts the kids if they're not doing what he wants or if say, they're not getting ready quick enough- he'll say it's not fair that they're making him late, or that they're being selfish if they haven't cleared up after themselves.

....I have no doubt some of it is from his upbringing, his dad does not treat his mum with respect- I've heard him say to her 'bloody woman'.... etc. when he's annoyed, and can see she's embarassed but has never stood up to him.

Nasty little comments that are then dressed as "jokes" are fairly typical behaviour for a narcissist. But we don't need to label him, I would honestly just read as much as you can and see what chimes with you. To read the books, I set up a separate email address using outlook.com and then opened my own Amazon account with it, and ordered the Kindle books, paid for them with a debit card on my sole bank account. Then I read them on my iPad and no-one's any the wiser what I'm reading, if I'm careful, which I am! 😊

Oh and I use private browsing so my browser history isn't recorded

I would not be staying married to that vile, bullying, inadequate little failure of a man. Gross.

I have to say, we (dh and I) each share jokes that could appear like this if we were to write them down. The difference is that we are laughing at each other ; and if either of us was to say ‘that hurt me’ or similar we would apologise and not do it again.

OP,

He is a really nasty man and you have been excusing him for a long time and he has just gotten worse.

Of course your children know well.
I hate the way women try to convince themselves that children are deaf and dumb.
They are not.
The hear, see and they know.

You are being abused and so are your children.

Ring Women's aid and have them confirm it.

You have a choice to either get very cross the next time and every time he attempts it. Up and leave and cause a fuss at his nastiness.

I doubt you will do that so look for legal advice.
Gather all financial paperwork to see how you will manage if you divorce.
Work away at your business to establish an income.
Detach emotionally from him.
Stop telling him anything.
Spend the least amount of time with him.
Learn to grey rock him.
Take away his power by avoiding going out in his company.
Tell him the wsy he behaves in company means you have no wish to be in his.
Tell family and friends the truth...that is he is abusing you and the children.
Move out of the bedroom.
Start squirreling money away.

Get organised to get away.
This doesn't have to be your life.

This doesn't have to be all your children remember about their childhood.

Get organised quietly in your own time, in your own way.

Turtletunes I don't have my own bank account.....

I have just accidentally got a speeding ticket- the zones kept changing and I thought it was 50 and it was a 40. Saw the camera flash. He immediately got so angry. Doesn't he realise how pissed off I am with myself?? He said well that's lunch gone then (we were going to go out for a nice meal later) and I got upset and said he's admonishing me like I'm his daughter and he's my dad. He said he drives down that road every day for work and has never got a ticket. Yes I shot back yes you never make mistakes.

I know hes angry about the £80 or whatever we'll be fined but I DIDNT DO IT ON PURPOSE. In a healthy relationship would the husband emotionally punish the wife this much? I'm not sure. I know if he got the ticket I'd be quietly annoyed but wouldnt' make him upset. I'm so so upset, can't stop crying.

I dropped him off at his appointment, tears streaming down my face, and he didn't say anything. Just got out of the car. How can he leave me crying and be so cold?

he's just come back to the car smiling like nothing happened.....and looks like we're still going to lunch. So confusing....