Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Has he manipulated her into this??

47 replies

arteduarte · 17/11/2023 08:34

I have a close friend of 8 years. We met at work when we had both ended long term relationships. He had cheated on her, so she took her anger and turned it into this amazing life for herself. Went travelling for a year, worked hard to get to senior management, bought her first flat in London, started weight training and was a vocal feminist reading everything she could on the topic.

The only thing that hadn't worked out for her was dating - she was working through it in therapy. She got to 40 and accepted it might not happen for her, but made her peace with it. And sods law, she then met a man off the apps and this is where everything gets weird. He is Spanish, also 40 and had just moved to London as a freelance creative. Seemed (and still seems) very nice, polite, charming and attentive to her. She was absolutely smitten and thought they were soulmates. He was renting so moved into her place within 4 months.

A few months later, she told me that he was struggling to find permanent work in London but had been offered a great role in Canada so they were both going to move. She quit her job, found another in Canada, rented out her flat, and also got her work visa sorted. His visa application was denied. So they moved back to Spain, to the small town he was from while they decided next steps. He doesn't own a place in Spain so they moved in with his parents...She told me their plan was to go travelling for some time. So they went only a few weeks to Portugal, and he then found a job in the Canary Islands - so they moved there. Now she works in Tech so this is a dead end place for her career, also she speaks no Spanish, and it was the first time I expressed some concern over what she was doing. But she told me she'd always fancied living somewhere sunny with a beach and chilled out so I figured it was a nice change of pace for her. She decided to re-train as a life coach. Then very suddenly on social media (2 months ago) she announced they were married, and told me it was so she could work in Spain.

She has now told me they have moved to Madrid, as he got another job there...She has been out of work for a year now, and still re-training to be a career coach. So in the span of 18 months she met this man, and has gone from being a senior manager in a large tech co with her own home, living close to her family and friends, being the considerably higher earner in their relationship (she used to earn 3 times what he did) with enough income to travel, to being unemployed, following a man from place to place in a country where she doesn't speak the language, living in a different rental flat every few months with budget constraints on all the things she enjoyed. And married to a man for visa purposes which is crazy to me given she's now unemployed and doesn't have any decent career prospects where they've moved to! He is still freelance, and very junior so she uses her small rental profits from London to support them.

We've tried to talk to her but she insists this is all her decision and she's very happy with it. But I am concerned that he has manipulated the power dynamic to make her dependent on him, and to isolate her. Would you think the same or am I being unfair? Is there anyway I can help her without alienating her?

OP posts:
Afteropening · 17/11/2023 08:38

oh leave her alone
not once have you said she has seemed unhappy

and it’s odd that you know so so much about her but she didn’t bother to tell you about marrying him, instead you found out on SM

icelollycraving · 17/11/2023 08:38

Just be there for her if and when it goes tits up. It might not. If it does, don’t say I told you so.

SeulementUneFois · 17/11/2023 08:38

Agree with you OP.

Perhaps unconsciously she's even aware of it and resigned to this compromise.
She might have been really unhappy, in a hidden manner to you and others, about being single.

Many people stay or settle into unhappy relationships as a painful compromise for that reason. (Looking at myself, very different circumstances.)

AutumnFroglets · 17/11/2023 08:40

He was renting so moved into her place within 4 months.
That's where it started. He is and has been, using her for money. I doubt you will convince her otherwise unfortunately as women seem particularly stupid when it comes to "lurve". Keep in contact and tell her she is always welcome to stay if things go bad, then wait.

arteduarte · 17/11/2023 08:43

She only told her own family after she got married, they eloped. So no one attended the wedding or knew about it. She used to be very close to her family, seeing them every week so eloping is very out of character for her.

And we haven't seen her since she moved away so whether she is unhappy or not we don't know.

OP posts:
Afteropening · 17/11/2023 08:47

arteduarte · 17/11/2023 08:43

She only told her own family after she got married, they eloped. So no one attended the wedding or knew about it. She used to be very close to her family, seeing them every week so eloping is very out of character for her.

And we haven't seen her since she moved away so whether she is unhappy or not we don't know.

have you suggested you visit?

whiteshutters · 17/11/2023 08:50

If she is as resilient as you described then she will be OK if this goes tits up. We all make our own decisions and she is an adult. Sometimes we have to learn the hard way.

arteduarte · 17/11/2023 08:53

Afteropening · 17/11/2023 08:47

have you suggested you visit?

Yes, my partner and I were invited to join them in Portugal on their travels but before anything could be confirmed she told me they were off to the Canaries so better to meet them there. Then she suggested waiting some time till they settled into their life there as it was supposed to be for a few years at least. But then we started discussing a group of us visiting her in Nov and she told us they were moving to Madrid. She says Madrid is going to be for a few years but at this point I'm not sure even she know how long they'll be in any place. But it's much closer for a long weekend so yes, we will visit if they stay there long enough.

OP posts:
Afteropening · 17/11/2023 09:38

visit her in madrid

and if still worried… then post

you need to actually see and be with her rather than just the odd message update

AttilaTheMeerkat · 17/11/2023 09:54

"The only thing that hadn't worked out for her was dating - she was working through it in therapy".

Her boundaries, perhaps already skewed by previous poor relationships, are being further skewed and otherwise done over by this man now. She should never have been on dating apps if she was in therapy because she was highly vulnerable to attracting predatory men. He has now managed to further isolate her by them moving around almost constantly. He is not as he seems and she in turn was targeted deliberately by him for money.

"She was absolutely smitten and thought they were soulmates. He was renting so moved into her place within 4 months".

His quick attachment to her is yet another red flag. He has red flags is a form of "The Loser" looking for a woman to target for his own ends.

If you can visit her in Madrid then I would do so. See if you can spend some time with her without her now H being present.

LemonTT · 17/11/2023 10:02

She is an adult and entitled to make bad decisions. Do you know conclusively that she has? Are you judging her choices on her aspirations or yours? Maybe this is the lifestyle she was looking for. Or maybe she is trailing a man because she never really became a feminist or independent thinker. Or maybe she is being manipulated and coerced. None of us know her or her motivations.

She hasn’t eloped because she an adult. She just got married. Which is always a practical move no matter what romantic connotations.

Given she went travelling before, I suspect she is dropping out of the rat race and living a less burdened life. She could get work if she wanted to. Sounds like she isn’t bothered.

Maybe that will be a mistake. But right now she has a property in London. Although that is now a marital asset under English law and god knows what under Spanish law. She still has her CV.

Phone her or go visit her. Don’t make accusations or judgements. Listen to her and observe. Point out employment options if she provides an opening, like if she says she wants to work.

LaviniasBigBloomers · 17/11/2023 10:13

I'd be getting on a plane, personally - I'd frame it as a last minute thing (got a bonus at work, or even a work trip if at all possible) and do a Friday to Sunday at fairly short notice. Don't give her long enough to come up with an excuse.

arteduarte · 17/11/2023 11:43

Yes, I will go visit her as a priority and not say anything judgemental or accusing. Because I'm not judging her. Completely understand wanting to quit the rat race, have a nicer life and even trail a man as the easier option. But I keep thinking that she only quit her job and left her flat because he told her he had this great opportunity in Canada. Which was a place she could easily work in, and she had also managed to secure herself a job. She had friends and family there already - it would have been a great move and one we all actively encouraged. So she wasn't interested in trailing him or being unemployed then. It all seems to have changed the minute she quit that job and rented out her flat - and moved in with his parents. So i'm not judging her, just worried about her as it feels like every time she's agreed to a plan he changes the goalposts and she loses a little bit more of her independence. I judge him and realise that none of us have met his friends or family as he knew no one in London and we've not been able to visit her in Spain.

But she's an adult and I can't do anything other than stay in regular contact so he doesn't isolate her.

OP posts:
Afteropening · 17/11/2023 15:48

when was the last time you actually saw her OP? when was the last time you actually spoke to her rather than messaging?

GreyCarpet · 17/11/2023 16:57

I don't think he's manipulated her necessarily but she sounds like a fool!

porridgeisbae · 17/11/2023 17:24

I don't think he's manipulated her as such, but she's being a bit of a muppety hanger-on to a man. And retraining as a 'life coach' - 🙄.

I don't think there's anything you can do really.

DahliaJ · 17/11/2023 17:27

Her life, her choice. She is a professional, mature lady who can make her own decisions - and has.

We don't all want the same things in life. Is she unhappy with her choices. Sounds pretty good to me!

user96327888 · 17/11/2023 18:18

Afteropening · 17/11/2023 09:38

visit her in madrid

and if still worried… then post

you need to actually see and be with her rather than just the odd message update

She can post what she likes when she likes.

What is it with the posts recently trying to police who can post and when

Afteropening · 17/11/2023 18:45

user96327888 · 17/11/2023 18:18

She can post what she likes when she likes.

What is it with the posts recently trying to police who can post and when

oh the irony 😂

Fredblog · 17/11/2023 22:16

Sounds ok to me, escaping the rat race, a life in the sun with a new man. Sure you're not just teeny bit jealous?

arteduarte · 17/11/2023 22:31

Fredblog · 17/11/2023 22:16

Sounds ok to me, escaping the rat race, a life in the sun with a new man. Sure you're not just teeny bit jealous?

I don't think being unemployed with no prospects in a country you can't work in while your husband can't work in the countries you can, is enviable!! Being so dependent on a man (who earns 3 times less than you do) is NEVER a good idea and it's depressing that you think it is. And no man who loves you should want want you to spend your 40s in rental studios every couple months. Christ, raise your standards. If you want to escape the rat race do it on your terms, not some 40 year old who can't hold a job longer than 6 months!!

OP posts:
scoobydoo1971 · 17/11/2023 23:00

For what it is worth, my neighbour is like your friend. She knows she is stuck with a miserable user who sucks the energy and money out of her life. She married him for a visa and his income. He is a miser so they live very very frugally. I told her to divorce him but there is always some reluctance from her. It boils down to admitting he mugged her off with promises of love, financial stability and a happy life. She has to admit misjudging him, and would feel bad about falling for him and feeling a fool. Like sunken cost fallacy. She prefers to drag on miserable instead waiting for his death in her words. That may be decades away. Your friend will seek help when ready so wait in the wings until she needs your help.

arteduarte · 17/11/2023 23:04

Afteropening · 17/11/2023 15:48

when was the last time you actually saw her OP? when was the last time you actually spoke to her rather than messaging?

Have you ever worked with women who undergo domestic abuse? Have you ever seen them smile and look happy and say everything is ok even when they're getting thrashed and raped behind closed doors? Do you really think logic goes out the door just because a friend may seem happy? And do you honestly believe that any man who makes you give up financial independence, friends and family, and security to follow him around has your best interests at heart? There's no free lunches. If she wanted to escape the rat race she would have done it on her own terms.

OP posts:
user96327888 · 17/11/2023 23:23

OP ignore After she's trying to catch you out. You've clearly attempting a f2f which hasn't been able to go ahead due to their relocation and even if you do, it may be difficult to grasp the reality of the situation as there's a lot of covering up as you mention.

Afteropening · 18/11/2023 05:44

op - i’m guessing all your interactions have been via messaging.

🤷‍♀️

nothing in what you have said has in any way indicates abuse or unhappiness. Currently - she is in madrid on an adventure. And adventures don’t tend to be smooth sailing. They tend to have bumps in the road, big bumps, but… it’s all part of the adventure.

All i’m saying is that until you actually see her… then just looking at the itinerary of her adventure over messaging, well seems bizarre to jump to abuse and manipulation

Swipe left for the next trending thread