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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Has he manipulated her into this??

47 replies

arteduarte · 17/11/2023 08:34

I have a close friend of 8 years. We met at work when we had both ended long term relationships. He had cheated on her, so she took her anger and turned it into this amazing life for herself. Went travelling for a year, worked hard to get to senior management, bought her first flat in London, started weight training and was a vocal feminist reading everything she could on the topic.

The only thing that hadn't worked out for her was dating - she was working through it in therapy. She got to 40 and accepted it might not happen for her, but made her peace with it. And sods law, she then met a man off the apps and this is where everything gets weird. He is Spanish, also 40 and had just moved to London as a freelance creative. Seemed (and still seems) very nice, polite, charming and attentive to her. She was absolutely smitten and thought they were soulmates. He was renting so moved into her place within 4 months.

A few months later, she told me that he was struggling to find permanent work in London but had been offered a great role in Canada so they were both going to move. She quit her job, found another in Canada, rented out her flat, and also got her work visa sorted. His visa application was denied. So they moved back to Spain, to the small town he was from while they decided next steps. He doesn't own a place in Spain so they moved in with his parents...She told me their plan was to go travelling for some time. So they went only a few weeks to Portugal, and he then found a job in the Canary Islands - so they moved there. Now she works in Tech so this is a dead end place for her career, also she speaks no Spanish, and it was the first time I expressed some concern over what she was doing. But she told me she'd always fancied living somewhere sunny with a beach and chilled out so I figured it was a nice change of pace for her. She decided to re-train as a life coach. Then very suddenly on social media (2 months ago) she announced they were married, and told me it was so she could work in Spain.

She has now told me they have moved to Madrid, as he got another job there...She has been out of work for a year now, and still re-training to be a career coach. So in the span of 18 months she met this man, and has gone from being a senior manager in a large tech co with her own home, living close to her family and friends, being the considerably higher earner in their relationship (she used to earn 3 times what he did) with enough income to travel, to being unemployed, following a man from place to place in a country where she doesn't speak the language, living in a different rental flat every few months with budget constraints on all the things she enjoyed. And married to a man for visa purposes which is crazy to me given she's now unemployed and doesn't have any decent career prospects where they've moved to! He is still freelance, and very junior so she uses her small rental profits from London to support them.

We've tried to talk to her but she insists this is all her decision and she's very happy with it. But I am concerned that he has manipulated the power dynamic to make her dependent on him, and to isolate her. Would you think the same or am I being unfair? Is there anyway I can help her without alienating her?

OP posts:
Afteropening · 18/11/2023 05:45

Has anyone seen her in person since she left? do you have any contact with her siblings or parents or any other very close friends (i have good friends i’ve made in the last decade, and then i have friends since i have had since school - and they are like my sisters)? if so, why not drop them a line and start a dialogue with them to see if they are concerned

Afteropening · 18/11/2023 06:09

Now she works in Tech so this is a dead end place for her career,

why do you think this?

Afteropening · 18/11/2023 06:12

so she’s currently living in a little flat with her husband in madrid. he works. she is training to be a life coach. she’s in madrid. currently beautifully sunny and warm and sounds a very chilled life - which she has said has always appealed to her

Newnamehiwhodis · 18/11/2023 06:22

It’s worrying, for sure. All you can do is be there for her.

Justanothermanicfunday · 18/11/2023 06:31

How do you know she's not happy OP? Money / Career isn't everything to Everyone? Personally a simple life in a Beautiful country sounds like a dream to Me! I lived in Spain in my twenties and it really was the most peaceful way of Life!
Just because she had a successful career previously, doesn't mean she has to have one again in a different country. She may be blissfully happy! It doesn't sound like you know her particularly well anymore and are just making judgements from the outside - People are allowed to change their path!

Dibbydoos · 18/11/2023 07:07

She loves him. That's it. Who needs loads of money etc etc when you are happy? Noone.

Support her and be there for her but don't apply your yardstick to measure her decisions.

BettyPhuckzer · 18/11/2023 07:14

arteduarte · 17/11/2023 22:31

I don't think being unemployed with no prospects in a country you can't work in while your husband can't work in the countries you can, is enviable!! Being so dependent on a man (who earns 3 times less than you do) is NEVER a good idea and it's depressing that you think it is. And no man who loves you should want want you to spend your 40s in rental studios every couple months. Christ, raise your standards. If you want to escape the rat race do it on your terms, not some 40 year old who can't hold a job longer than 6 months!!

Previously you said you're not judging her

Maybe you and I have different perceptions about judgement?

If you are genuinely concerned and don't want to simply judge on a public forum, get on a plane and visit. Don't tell her. Just turn up

Afteropening · 18/11/2023 07:15

And no man who loves you should want want you to spend your 40s in rental studios every couple months. Christ, raise your standards. If you want to escape the rat race do it on your terms, not some 40 year old who can't hold a job longer than 6 months!!

on the basis of this Op - you don’t sound very pleasant

Catopia · 18/11/2023 07:18

Being married will also improve the chances of him getting a visa if she wants to re-enter the rat race, and to be honest, there are probably plenty of remote-only tech jobs.... after all, they literally have the tech! However, to be honest, I think a lot of people dream about doing what she has been brave enough to do, and it does sound like she has a sort-of plan. It wouldn't be difficult to get some sort of tourism related job in the Canaries if she needs something stable in the interim. She probably won't be making the big bucks in her job, sure, but she probably has a perfectly satisfactory income coming from her London rental if her mortgage rate on it isn't too shocking.

Afteropening · 18/11/2023 07:30

as it stands, your friend isn’t earning a penny.

She is living in warm and sunny madrid training to be a life coach, and her husband is working. they are living off her rental income and his salary. No children, just the two of them.

I can think of worse ways to spend your 40s!!

DahliaJ · 18/11/2023 09:18

You seem quite bitter and judgmental OP.

There are people who are manipulated by others but this seems a big jump from what you have shared. What is the evidence? You seem quite remote from her with no real life contact, which is causing your jump to conclusions.

People make changes to plans, build on experiences that shape them over time. Maybe a taste of a different life has shaped her next decisions. Decisions that you just don't see as you are not part of them.

Do you have friends in common, do you know her friends, do they share your concerns? Is she in regular contact with others? Maybe she just isn’t as close to you.

Aquamarine1029 · 18/11/2023 09:27

I think you need to mind your own affairs and stop judging her life by what you would want for yourself. Maybe she hasn't asked for help because she doesn't want or need it.

porridgeisbae · 18/11/2023 10:26

do you honestly believe that any man who makes you give up financial independence, friends and family, and security to follow him around has your best interests at heart?

But we have no evidence he's 'made' her do these things. She's made those decisions presumably, although they aren't conventionally sensible ones.

I hope you get your friend back OP. ❤

porridgeisbae · 18/11/2023 10:38

I had a friend who developed in a different direction to me, became a space cadet and it was a shame but there was nothing I could do about it.

WorldCuppa · 18/11/2023 10:44

Lol waiting for an AIBU from her friend ‘my friend turns up from overseas and just expects to stay at my house. AIBU?’ 😂

purplehue · 18/11/2023 10:47

How about arrange a surprise weekend and turn up in her doorstep? Obviously book a hotel so you're not staying with her but use the time to see her and have a good weekend. Don't pry too much but you'll be able to see from her body language if she's ok.

LaviniasBigBloomers · 18/11/2023 12:17

A lot of people on here have led charmed lives it seems, which I'm really happy about (genuinely, no snark) but OP is absolutely right to worry that a dear friend who has had a personality change and has completely isolated herself from her own life may be at risk. That's not to say she IS, but OP is right to consider it.

WorldCuppa · 18/11/2023 12:38

@LaviniasBigBloomers true but equally the friend is within her right to tell the OP to mind her beeswax! I honestly can’t see anything to worry about, sounds like your friend is happy you should be happy for her!

Petallove · 19/11/2023 07:52

You say she has travelled before so maybe part of her enjoys the lifestyle. It does sound as though she has given up a lot to follow him. Their relationship has moved quickly. It may be that she wants him to be her soul mate. She may enjoy their spontaneous relationship but at some point she may grow tired of it. There may be issues with relationships as you mentioned. But you need to let her carry on She will appreciate your friendship if it does go wrong. She can learn the language and a career for herself but it doesn’t need to be high flying/stressful maybe she has learnt that. An obvious issue for me is she needs to consider what she needs rather than following him but it’s her choice.

user1471538283 · 19/11/2023 08:52

I would be very worried. At best she's hoping things work out and at worst she is being manipulated and god knows what.

I'd be flying out there as a surprise visit.

SnobblyBobbly · 19/11/2023 11:27

You know your friend better than anyone on MN and unfortunately sometimes we can see that our friends are making mistakes, or what seem to us like mistakes and all we can do is leave them to it and let it play out.

I had a friend in a similar situation, her new partner seemed lovely to begin with, over time there were red flags, which I tentatively raised, but she insisted she was happy and I could tell that if I continued to probe, our lines of communication would close down entirely. Eventually they moved to another country, friend was isolated, made excuses to avoid visits and eventually the partner left her for someone else and she was devastated. It transpired that the guy had been hitting my friend and emotionally abusing her throughout the relationship. None of this came out until after they'd split - she'd never have admitted it because she felt embarrassed and didn't want the judgement.

My advice is to keep contact, stay neutral and that will leave the door open for her to come to you if she has the need to.

crackofdoom · 19/11/2023 11:34

Even if this all goes tits up, she could end up with EU residency/passport and fluent in Spanish. All of which could add to her career prospects in the long run.

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