Page 2 | I can't stand being touched by DD

ClemFandangooo · 2023-11-15T03:47:09+00:00

I'm not sure if this a PND thing or a hormone thing but since having DD2 5 months ago, I cannot stand DD1 touching me. I can't explain why. I love her so much but when she touches my skin I just need to get her off, it makes my skin crawl and I have this urge to just get her off me, it makes me really angry and uncomfortable. I can't help it and I feel absolutely terrible I'm just so touched out. She sleeps in my bed most nights and she is constantly trying to put her feet and hands in any crevice of my body and it makes me feel itchy and my skin crawl. I sound like a terrible mum and I hate feeling this way I just want to love cuddling her, I'm just not sure what to do. Has anybody else experienced the same? I can only liken it to when I experienced a breastfeeding aversion whilst feeling DD1 and pregnant with DD2. I'm worried I sound insane, please tell me someone's experienced the same!

Original poster

ClemFandangooo · 15/11/2023 07:25

39and · 15/11/2023 07:12

Me and a few have asked but you haven't answered. Do you have a partner that can help?

Sorry I was half asleep when I posted, yes DP is around but DD2 has gone off him and won't let him do anything like change her nappy or wash her, she wants me to do everything

OP posts:

Unwisebutnotillegal · 15/11/2023 07:34

you need to be firmer!! Move her onto a mattress on the floor. Explain that cuddles are for before bed. Firmly repeat this all the time. If she wakes during the night tell her to go back to sleep and she will get a big cuddle in the morning.

Original poster

ClemFandangooo · 15/11/2023 07:34

ShoesoftheWorld · 15/11/2023 06:55

I think you've got into a self-reinforcing cycle. She's tiny still, you know, and she will be feeling insecure and perhaps a bit displaced by the baby, and will be sensing your aversion - the more she senses it, the harder she fights. Her crying for a cuddle was likely real fear and grief that she's been cast out (as she perceives it). Like the poor PP above who went through this with her own mother, I'm going to offer a different response from the others about rules and boundaries and say that, as hard as it is, trying to meet her needs will (seemingly paradoxically) make this better, certainly eventually, maybe quite quickly. When she comes for a cuddle and you get that skin-crawling feeling, tell yourself firmly in your head 'this is my lovely dd1 who I love so much'. Try to notice the warmth and softness of her. Think about how distraught you'd feel for her if anyone else was rejecting her this way (again - this is from what may well be her perspective - I do not mean you are actually rejecting her). Using your mind to counter the instinctual skin-crawl, iyswim.

Get what breaks you can away from both children - a bath in the evening when your dh/dp is there (assuming that is possible). I also wouldn't be shy of somewhat increased screen use for dd1 in this situation, to give you a break during the day.

IIWY I'd go with the family bed (using safe sleep principles) for now, but I wouldn't let her lie 'across' me - I think there needs to be an intermediate stage between lying across you and in her own bed. At that stage I had ds1 on one side of me and ds2 (2.4y age gap) on the other side in his bedside cot.

How long ago did you stop bf?

Thank you this is extremely helpful.

I do try extremely hard not to make her feel rejected or pushed out. We do lots together just us two, we also go out together to a class or group for her most days, I give her lots of attention, she helps me make dinner, I do her bath time, she helps out with her sister so she feels involvedshe still has cuddles all day long it's just by the evening that I can't stand it.

I find it really hard to get a break, when I have my shower in the evening before bath time they are all usually in the bathroom with me as DD1 wants to be there and DP can't get DD2 to stop crying unless she's in the bathroom and can see me.

I go to bed with DD1 as she wakes if I go back to the living room/isn't touching me

I probably get 2-3 minutes alone during a 24 hour period and that's to go to the toilet

I still breastfeed DD2, planning to stop in a month or two. I stopped breastfeeding DD1 almost a year ago

OP posts:

39and · 15/11/2023 07:36

You do need to be firmer even if it's difficult. Don't let her call the shots. You and your DP call the shots

Original poster

ClemFandangooo · 15/11/2023 07:38

Kittylala · 15/11/2023 06:37

Maybe she needs firm words and new boundaries in place. Have you tried?
I tell my children if they are annoying me, if they are being silly/needy etc. It helps them if I name the behaviour. Sometimes they label my behaviour and they have a safe space to express that. No one is passive aggressive or angry. You owe it to your child to tell her and it shouldn't be done to shame her (like my mother did), but to educate her. It will strengthen your bond.
Goodluck.

Admittedly I'm terrible at being firm and having boundaries, I give in to 99% of tantrums as I don't have the energy at the moment but I do know I need to.

If I try to be firm she shouts NO or will ssh me and then do whatever I've asked her not to do anyway.

She has a speech delay so communication can be a bit tricky, she can't tell me her feelings but often if I say "I understand you're sad because of X" she calms down

OP posts:

Original poster

ClemFandangooo · 15/11/2023 07:39

Teefndrama · 15/11/2023 05:35

It sounds like full sleep training would be incredibly overwhelming for you at the moment, could you manage a less intense version, starting to make some distance? Eg, when dd1 is demanding cuddles when you're feeding or doing something else you don't allow her on your lap but allow her a side cuddle. Or when she's trying to sleep and wants to be across you you keep putting her back to next to you.

Then it can slowly progress to less touching, to being in the same bed but not touching then one day her lying in her bed for a chill out before she gets to come to yours to sleep, to wean her off. Try much smaller steps but being very firm about them so that not much is changing at once but she has to accept the changes, might be easier for you right now than the screaming for hours.

I'm wondering if she feels displaced by the baby so is fighting even harder now to have contact with you, can you try and redirect this to the baby a little in the day so she gets the idea she's not being pushed out but you don't get touched out? Eg, 'thank you, mummy had a lovely cuddle but now dd2 needs someone to hold her hand while she goes to sleep, can you do that for me?'

This is really helpful, thank you

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TudorBeckham · 15/11/2023 07:41

@ShoesoftheWorld gives good advice.

I think getting a proper break regularly when no one is making demands of you or touching you would go a long way. Maybe worth speaking to your DP about how you could work this out together. Do you have any other family nearby?

Original poster

ClemFandangooo · 15/11/2023 07:44

MBM18 · 15/11/2023 05:18

Definitely normal I'd say and it's that "touched out" feeling. My DD1 is 5 years old so understands boundaries a bit better than a toddler but I get it with her, especially when I'm breastfeeding DD2 and DD1 wants to come in my arm for a cuddle as well. I sometimes get this strong feeling of just needing my own space.

Do you have a partner? My partner has taken over more with DD1 since the baby came along. It's really hard trying to juggle both by yourself.

If you left her asleep in your bed and slept elsewhere, would she still wake up?

Yes if I'm feeding DD2 and DD1 is touching me I feel like I might explode!

DP does as much as he can and is understanding but DD1 is favouring me and doesn't want him to do anything and usually says "no mummy" if he tries to play with her, change her, take her out etc

Yes she wakes up if she isn't touching me so even if I get up for a wee in the night she wakes

OP posts:

Zippedydoodahday · 15/11/2023 07:45

This might sound a bit bonkers, but you might try a calcium and magnesium supplement. A few women from my breastfeeding group have found it really helpful in similar situations. There is a theory it is your body trying to ensure that you just feed the baby, so giving you an aversion to the older child, but the supplement does seem to help some women, possibly because it helps to address any deficiency and makes your body less concerned about supporting two nurslings (even though you may have weaned the older one).

Original poster

ClemFandangooo · 15/11/2023 07:45

TudorBeckham · 15/11/2023 07:41

@ShoesoftheWorld gives good advice.

I think getting a proper break regularly when no one is making demands of you or touching you would go a long way. Maybe worth speaking to your DP about how you could work this out together. Do you have any other family nearby?

It's all I wish for! Just an hour alone.

No family nearby the nearest is 2 hours away

OP posts:

Original poster

ClemFandangooo · 15/11/2023 07:47

stayathomer · 15/11/2023 05:13

Weirdly I don’t think it’s odd or awful- it’s like when you have a toddler that doesn’t stop speaking- two of my dses were toddler chatterboxes and I mean they never stopped until asleep. Much as I adored them there were a lot of times my head felt fried. I would guess when you’re tired (exhausted- you do have a baby!!) it’s just overloading your senses. Hugs op

Thank you for your nice message and for not judging me

OP posts:

ShoesoftheWorld · 15/11/2023 07:47

Re the bf - I asked because I wondered whether your feelings might be partly a hormonal carry-over from having stopped quite recently -. but sounds like you stopped during pregnancy, if I have my sums right? I tandem fed my older two (had a much much bigger gap between nos. 2 and 3) and I found that helped, but obv that's not really an option for you as she's been off it a while now.

I do think your dp needs to push through a bit with dd2, tbh. She's not alone/abandoned. She has a preference for you atm. But you need balanced breaks from both children, and also the more your dp decides she's rejected him and he can't do it, the more difficult their bonding will be. (Obviously I'm not suggesting you always leave her to him however distressed she is - but what seems to be happening is another self-perpetuating cycle, potentially, between the two of them, which is having its own impacts on yours with dd1).

ShoesoftheWorld · 15/11/2023 07:50

(Sorry - when I say stopping bf I mean stopping with dd1)

Original poster

ClemFandangooo · 15/11/2023 07:50

ShoesoftheWorld · 15/11/2023 07:47

Re the bf - I asked because I wondered whether your feelings might be partly a hormonal carry-over from having stopped quite recently -. but sounds like you stopped during pregnancy, if I have my sums right? I tandem fed my older two (had a much much bigger gap between nos. 2 and 3) and I found that helped, but obv that's not really an option for you as she's been off it a while now.

I do think your dp needs to push through a bit with dd2, tbh. She's not alone/abandoned. She has a preference for you atm. But you need balanced breaks from both children, and also the more your dp decides she's rejected him and he can't do it, the more difficult their bonding will be. (Obviously I'm not suggesting you always leave her to him however distressed she is - but what seems to be happening is another self-perpetuating cycle, potentially, between the two of them, which is having its own impacts on yours with dd1).

Edited

Yes I stopped around 3 months pregnant which is when this started, I couldn't stand DD touching me and when she was latched on I got this overwhelming urge to get her off me, id feel panicky when she was feeding it was really strange.

Thank you this is super helpful, I'll speak to DP today

OP posts:

theduchessofspork · 15/11/2023 07:50

You are just touched out OP, it’s very common.

You need to pick a method and get her info her own bed.

Presumably you have a partner that can give you some support? It’s a slightly tough process but you have to live with that and be ruthless about putting her back into her own bed.

MaryLennoxsScowl · 15/11/2023 07:53

Can you get your DP to do bedtimes for DD1? He puts her in and stays with her and you ideally go somewhere you can’t hear them even if you have to put DD2 in the car and drive round the corner. He cuddles her and reassures her and you can’t break and go in because you don’t hear it?

ShoesoftheWorld · 15/11/2023 07:54

I think bf aversion in pregnancy is pretty common - I didn't experience it (hence the tandem feeding) but it does seem to make sense from a biological POV.

crazyBadger · 15/11/2023 07:54

You need to bite the bullet and get on with putting her in her bed.. . Dd was much like this we got up to the high 80 count of the amount of time we put her back in her room...

It took 4 1/2 hours and she eventually fell asleep naked on her rug with pretty much the entire content of her room thrown down the stairs (over the stair gate)..

But the next night only took 3 times. .

Now she's 17 and never leaves her bed :)

theduchessofspork · 15/11/2023 07:55

ClemFandangooo · 15/11/2023 07:44

Yes if I'm feeding DD2 and DD1 is touching me I feel like I might explode!

DP does as much as he can and is understanding but DD1 is favouring me and doesn't want him to do anything and usually says "no mummy" if he tries to play with her, change her, take her out etc

Yes she wakes up if she isn't touching me so even if I get up for a wee in the night she wakes

Show quote history

I’d also say you need to tackle this with your partner, toddlers and young children do play favourites. You have to firm in dividing the time the way you want it, because if you aren’t it becomes a self fulfilling cycle - the less time the child spends with the less favoured parent the less time she wants to spend.

You need a clear chunk off time off each week.

Your first job is to talk to your partner about both these issues, and make a plan - you will both need to be tougher than you are used to being, and you need to support each other in that.

Autumnleavesarefallingdownagain · 15/11/2023 07:59

OP, my 4 year old is still in bed with me but I cannot sleep if she is touching me so I put down a little barrier made with rolled up towels and she has to stay on her side. He didn’t like it at first, would have happily slept on top of me of allowed, but I just couldn’t have it. So I’d just keep repeating ‘mummy is right here but I can’t sleep if we’re touching and I need to sleep’ etc. explain it all in the daytime, and just not budge. Given everything else you’re saying I think this is your best bet rather than cold turkey in her own bed. As much because you might stick to your guns more as it’s less ‘hardcore’. I think you have to really mean it though or it won’t work

NoSquirrels · 15/11/2023 08:06

Does your DP also do the ‘naming her feelings’ for her when she’s upset?

e.g. ‘DD, I understand you really want Mummy now and you’re feeling upset/sad/cross that Mummy’s not here. I’m going to cuddle up with you tonight instead.’

I agree that your DP absolutely has to persevere here.

RaisinsOfMildAnnoyance · 15/11/2023 08:08

If she's speech delayed, would a set if emotions cards help? Something like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Play-Doctors-Emotions-Face-Feelings/dp/B07NWWK2NM/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=20Y5ELNNFP1GA&keywords=emotions+cards+for+young+children&qid=1700035508&sprefix=emotions+cards+for+young+children%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-2

Be as kind to yourself as possible, op. This would be tough for anyone to cope with.

Scottishskifun · 15/11/2023 08:17

ClemFandangooo · 15/11/2023 07:38

Admittedly I'm terrible at being firm and having boundaries, I give in to 99% of tantrums as I don't have the energy at the moment but I do know I need to.

If I try to be firm she shouts NO or will ssh me and then do whatever I've asked her not to do anyway.

She has a speech delay so communication can be a bit tricky, she can't tell me her feelings but often if I say "I understand you're sad because of X" she calms down

Show quote history

Being touched out is definitely a thing many bf mothers get it, not necessarily related to PND. Taking magnesium can ease it (I have no idea why!)

In terms of her feelings have you tried some basic sign language? It can really help. We have done baby signing which is BSL based with both our two and it massively reduces frustration as they can communicate what they mean. You basically sign as you speak and they pick it up. So sign and say happy, sad, frustrated/grumpy are good ones.
We also do food based ones so all done, food/eat, drink and more.

CatherinedeBourgh · 15/11/2023 08:23

It's your body telling you that you need to change something - and you do. You are human and there is only so much you can do.

I'm afraid the only solution is your dp keeping pressing on with taking the relay until she accepts it. Little steps as others have said. Dad will sleep in bed for a little while, mummy needs half an hour to settle the baby. It's OK if you can't sleep until mummy is there, just wait with daddy. And build it up.

At one point dh decided that he was taking them both for a night. He said he didn't care if they all sat up all night watching you tubes, but they were staying with him and I was sleeping alone. I thought they would be impossibly grumpy the next day but it would be worth it for a night on my own. In fact although they were tired, they were incredibly proud of themselves (we made a big deal of thanking them and praising them).

It was the first step in them seeing me as a human being with my own needs. I highly recommend it.

quivers · 15/11/2023 09:14

Sad as this sounds, I think you really are going to have to go cold turkey with this one. Your DD1 has learned that if she screams long enough, she gets her own way and there is only one way to change that. She needs to learn that it won't work. It might mean a week or two of no sleep for any of you, but it might be the only answer. Is there a chance that your DP could take a few days off?