I don't want mil to look after my dad

[AtTheEndOfMyToothbrush]

Tldr: my mil has offered to look after my extremely challenging and disabled dad but I don't want her to as I don't want to feel indebted to her and am worried about what I (or through me my kids) will have to do to return the favour.

My dad has been disabled since he has had a stroke a while ago. He can't get up, walk or do anything else without help. We have employed a 24h nurse and other staff to help care for him at home. My parents stay abroad so this is thankfully just about affordable. My sister and me have spent several months over there as we feel we can't leave my mum to deal with this on her own. My sister is there currently and has been there for much longer than me as I have small children that I can't leave for too long.

After his stroke he was for quite a while in a hospital and hospice kind of place but there they heavily sedate him to make him more manageable. He was extremely unhappy and depressed there. He was basically a vegetable. So we brought him home.

The problem is that apart from the fact that managing his care is quite complicated and involved, my dad's behaviour has also been affected by his stroke. He has become extremely aggressive and is also violent at times (though he can't at the moment cause serious injury because of his disability and weakness). He keeps shouting at my mum and verbally abusing her as he wants her to send the carers away and care for him herself. This is impossible as my mum is in her 80s herself. We are now at a loss about what to do as my sister needs to leave soon. He can't stay at home with my mum as it's too stressful for her and once my sister leaves he will bully her into doing whatever he wants as my mum is incapable of setting boundaries. We can't really leave him alone at home with carers as there are too many things every day that need to be managed though this is my preferred solution. We don't want to put him back in any facility as that would be the end of any quality of life for him.

My mil has offered to look after my dad for at least a few months. She is a doctor herself, runs her own clinic and has looked after quite a few of her relatives. I mean her staff would care for my dad under her supervision. This is of course an incredibly generous offer and I am quite touched that she would do this. My sister wants to take her up on the offer and for my mum to come and live with me. .

I'm very willing for my mum to live with us and I think that dh might be willing to accept that though he'd probably prefer not to. But I an dead against my dad going to my mil. It's too much to ask from someone and I would feel obligated and indebted for the rest of my life. I don't want that. My mil is quite an amazing person in many ways but she is also extremely dominating and can be very ruthless and manipulative to get what she wants. And she always wants something. She keeps involving herself in dh's life and our kids' life and it makes me very uncomfortable. She has form in alienating her nieces from their parents (as she believes that her sibling didn't parent them well) and I worry she will do the same with us as she seems to be a bit obsessed with my DD. Anyway, on the face of it we have got a decent relationship but I am wary of her. I'm always happy to help her and my dh' family in practical ways but I don't want to give her more power over me and my kids.

My sister is saying that I don't have to feel obligated and she will tell mil that the favour is all on her and I've got nothing to do with it. But things don't work that way do they? Of course I will have to appreciate such a massive favour and of course it will indebt me. Dh and me have also got serious problems so this added complication doesn't help.

I don't know what to do. I feel so guilty either way. Surely I can't sacrifice my dad (and my mum) for what might just be my pride? Or my insecurity? Or just because I don't want it? Or don't want the inconvenience of being grateful to someone?

What would you do?

In the absence of no good solution you've got to be looking at whose quality of life is now more important and how long this could go on.
I'd be looking at a care facility.
And would absolutely not be bringing my DM to live with me. Surely she wouldn't put that on you anyway?

It's a shame DF was taken out of the hospice originally. Most people don't like it initially but get used to it. I think he should go back to hospice/care home. It's what your DM wants. The MIL option seems unnecessarily complicated and involving a third party when you don't need to.

Would it be a possibility to move them both to the same country as you. Your mum to live with you and your dad to an acre home where you and mum could visit regularly.

If you do accept and pay for MIL’s staff to care for you father, I think you need to do so in a planned way. Agree with you husband what it means and doesn’t mean that your mil is helping and agree how you will respond if she oversteps. You could even have a blunt conversation with her “yes we’d appreciate employing your caters to support dad, but we will pay and be treated like any other client and expect it not to affect our personal relationship”. Could you ask to have her deputy lead on your dads care rather than her and explain you don’t want to mix personal life and employed careers too much.

I think he needs professional help eg a care home.

Yes @Codlingmoths I think this is the same poster. Mum was being abused and miserable.

OP, I get this is hard. But the only logical step is to find a good home for your Dad to move into.

Can you ask MIL to help with this? Otherwise she's going to feel snubbed and you'll bear the brunt of the behaviour of hers you don't like.

I think it sounds sensible and reasonable to keep these family members quite separate.

I find it surprising that posters advise the OP to move her mother to live with her despite the fact that her husband isn't keen or even that she moves them both to the uk and her husband to a local facility so they can visit every day even though he is abusive etc.
Posters so often excuse abusive behaviour from their parents and yet come down like a ton of bricks on their in laws.
Do you work OP or will you need your husband to support you financially?

It's got to be 3.

Just to clarify: my mil doesn't run a care home. She'd be looking after my dad in her own home where she also has looked after other relatives in the past and some of her relatives still live there. Well it's a weekend home so she wouldn't be there all the time but she would have to spend a lot of time and effort on my dad even if she has staff to do the caring. Any amount of money that we pay wouldn't make up for that. Also, I don't think we can ask her other relatives to put up with my dad to be honest. It would be quite unpleasant for them.

Yes, she might decide to put him on sedatives as well if he becomes unmanageable. She probably would and I wouldn't blame her for that.

Yes I work and my parents have given us so much money over the years that no one could really say that they are a financial burden on me or dh.

The care home where my dad would have to go to wouldn't be a nice, cosy assisted living facility. Because of his needs it would be more like a hospital environment with very little opportunity for any enriching activities. Also because of the medication they would put him on he wouldn't be interested in doing anything but lying down anyway.

Since my dad's stroke either me or my sister have always been with my parents. But I expect once my sister leaves it wouldn't be great for my mum even if my dad is in a home. He used to take care.of everything and I think she would struggle.living on her own. Especially considering her age and her own health. I'm not even entirely sure she can safely live on her own but who knows.

I think back to the care home is the best option if he’s aggressive and violent. If a professional care facility was having to sedate him to cope with his behaviour you can’t expect your mum, an elderly lady to care for someone that is at risk of hurting her or it might be her funeral your arranging first!

Your dad has had a devastating stroke, so you can’t make it better. He has been sedated for a reason, if he was violent to staff then surely he is violent to your staff and your mother?

sedation can be a kindness, if I was distressed in the way you describe I’d take some pills to avoid it.

you sound like your intentions are good but you can’t fix this problem. It is very sad but it will be more sad if someone is hurt by your dad. He is aggressive and violent and it is not fair to leave your mother or mother in law to cope. I have worked with men with dementia and stroke and they can be physically threatening- I would not nurse them alone.

I remember your last thread. I suggest you have a Frank conversation with your dad’s consultant about what the prognosis is and take their advice. I think you are making a series of mistakes and that is creating risk to the detriment of your wider family and also reducing your dad’s quality of life. He needs care.

I am sorry, this is a very hard situation to be in.

@AtTheEndOfMyToothbrush
I think you really need to look at the bigger picture here, I'm assuming your dad is also 80+, there's not going to be a big recovery here. Care home is the best option, he'll be safe as will your mum.

Re reading this, you need to do what your DM wants here. With hindsight it sounds like DF should never have been brought home and it certainly hasn't made DMs life any easier.

She wants DF to go into a home, maybe she isn't capable of living on her own, but maybe she is. If she is still in sound mind she deserves the opportunity to try.

Also it doesn't sound like your DF is much happier being at home than he would be in a care facility, just less docile as he isn't drugged up.

And no bringing MIL into the equation at this point is not a good idea. It already seems there are far too many people involved in this situation.

It is heartbreaking to see close family being so ill and incapacitated that they do not have any quality of life anymore.
That’s what the stroke did to your dad and it’s awful.

It’s also a reality that he won’t recover and the illness has added layers that make caring for him VERY challenging.
The situation your dad is in is unfair and he deserves the best care.
But so does your mum.
And so does your sister and so do you.

It is not right to put yourself right at the bottom of the pile in favour of someone else. It’s true fir you, fir your sister and fir your mum.
Your mum deserves to have quality of life too.

So as hard as it is, I think your dad should be in a care home.
Id investigate if there isn’t another one more suited to him, maybe a bit further away. Ask his consultant. Hell ask your MIL. She might have a good idea/experience too.

I also think your father should be in a care home but I would not at all ask your MIL for her opinion under any circumstances.

We don't want to put him back in any facility as that would be the end of any quality of life for him

Currently your mum has no quality of life. I think your df needs to go back into a home and be rehabilitated if he can. Is there another one who can offer this for him, with more activities for him to do?
That way your mum can visit him and enjoy his company and not have to deal with the aggressive behaviour, you don't need to involve your mil, and your mum can come and visit you without completely encroaching on your life.

He needs to go back into a care home. By taking him out you've made your mum's life a lot more stressful and difficult. He might want her there waiting on him hand and foot, but that's just tough.

I also wouldn't bring your mum to live with you.

His needs warrant special care that you, your sister, and your mum can't provide long term. You say your MiL and her staff would probably sedate him anyway, so he may as well be in a home.

Your mum's quality of life is more important than his at this stage.

I wonder would some sort of retirement village be a better option for them both. You could also pay for additional carers on top of the support provided. You have your own living quarters but there are normally meals on wheels provided and a resident nurse etc
If your father did deteriorate further. Your mother could stay on there with support and company around her?

OP, imo your base line needs to be everyone is safe.

At the moment DM is not safe, living with a physically aggressive person. DF is not safe, being allowed to be physically aggressive to people, purely from looking at his safety, he could hurt himself while trying to hurt someone else.

If he's in your MILs house with other people who need care, then those people are not safe.

If he's being cared for, by carers, and he's being aggressive - then the carers are not safe.

Your MIL wants him to be in a care facility. She's the one impacted by him being home, and he does not have capacity to decide. So it should be out of the question for him to remain at home with her. That's decision 1 made.

He can't go to MIL, it sounds completely inappropriate an environment for someone as poorly as he is.

So that leaves a care facility. Frankly wherever he is he will need to be sedated. Any professional carer - even in his own home - can't be expected to be at risk of physical assault because the family don't like the idea of the patient being sedated. It's really really hard, and I'm not trying to minimise what you're going through. But I think you need to apply logic, because emotional reasoning is just going to get you chasing your tail in circles.

So wherever he is he'll be sedated. I think you need to accept that.

I really really think he needs to go either back to the care facility where he was, or you fond another one you're more happy with, but he can't stay at home and going to MIL is just going to increase the stress of the whole situation. I'd imagine if he hurts one of her relatives then that would be a situation even more likely to cause you problems with MIL. It's just asking for trouble.

I'd let her do it. She has experience, she has the staff... she knows what she is taking on

And if she's already pushy and domineering what have you got to lose?

Failing that, definitely a care home. Sadly the father you knew is gone, and the stroke has turned him into a hostile and demanding person. You can't leave your mother to be bullied by him, and I wouldn't trust his care to visiting staff with no family on hand to look on.

And as she is tte MIL, she is probably a similar age than the dad. 80ish.

Would you really ask an 80yo to take that sort if responsibility, regardless of the knowledge they have if tte issue?

No she's much younger. In her 60s and still working.

I think dsis and mil are just going to go over my head and do it anyway. :-(