Not sure I’d have chosen this life

[Magicbeads]

Dh works endless hours. I’m alone with small children. He doesn’t message or let me know anything. Around half six I get an inevitable text he’s late.

I can’t do much about it. Just venting.

Do you have children? If so then surely you'd understand how the reality of caring for them yourself would be very different from what you might imagine it would be? It would be completely understable for someone to be married to someone who works long hours and think that they could manage looking after the children themselves during those times, then when the kids actually come along it's far far harder doing it all without support than you had ever imagined.

I never get all these 'but surely you knew?' comments that are becoming increasingly frequent on mumsnet. Does anyone posting them ever think that they are in any way helpful?

Often I think the issue isn’t the long hours.

It’s the sense if entitlement from those men.

Entitlement to just go fir work for long hours Wo a second thought for the consequences on their dwife and children (let’s nit fool ourselves - not being present as a father HAS consequences in the children too).
Its often going alongside a feeling that they are there to ‘help’, ‘don’t know how to <insert basic stuff such as choosing clothes>’ etc…
And also the age old ‘he needs to rest after working so hard’ and a few other so helpful comments.

I’m pretty sure @Magicbeads you wouldn’t react in the same way if your DH truly appreciated the work you do, how hard it is (instead if taking it fir granted) etc….

Doing the bulk of the parenting and that work been appreciated, support offered at the weekend, proper involvement when at home is pretty different than doing the bulk of parenting with someone who takes that for granted, think they only need to about themselves and no one else and generally shows no appreciation and respect for the work done as a SAHM (on ML or not for that matter) and pays lip service to being a parent.

This could also be applied to the impact of being the default parent on career/work, pension, ability to be ‘you’ (aka hobbies, time fir yourself etc….), rest etc etc

Right. So do you think he has been a perfect husband and father up until this point and then suddenly changed? Or do you think he has always been like this and the OP ignored it or hoped he would change when she needed him to? Because very, very rarely do men like this hide their selfishness this long.

You see it happen over and over on MN. Women, posting about their workaholic husbands with their all-day-Saturday hobby, being exhausted from doing everything for multiple children, while their husband continues to work long hours and be gone all day Saturday.

So so true.. I run a business and employ men and women. I work late often but have older kids, my male staff work late and it's clearly to avoid home life.. they could go earlier in fact I tell them to bugger off and I hear them saying "I'll be another hour" I'm their boss and say no no leave now and they don't.

Is so so obvious to me that time of evening they avoid the tea, bath.. and aim for snuggly Disney dad bedtime. Twats

Yes, it's irritating. Because you have a job and then you come home to a "second shift". And that second shift is more tiring and wearing than just quietly working a few extra hours would be. It's the nature of small children - cute and joyful and lively, but oh so exhausting sometimes! And he gets an opt-out from this by working extra hours, an opt-out that was never really discussed and seemingly never available to you. And you have the horrid, horrid mornings and the stress and strain of juggling everything - "will I be late, won't I?" Whereas he gets to shower in peace and walk straight out. Without dragging toddler(s).

Do you shower/eat breakfast in the morning, OP?

I get it. It's fucking annoying. When did you sign up to spending both ends of the day running around like a headless chicken while he arranges the pencils neatly on his desk and attends work drinks without even having to think about a babysitter?

'Often I think the issue isn’t the long hours.

It’s the sense if entitlement from those men.'

Absolutely this. I would be in heaven if I only had to think about work, what an absolute luxury to be able to work late without a thought.

People my age are starting to get excited about retirement, I can't give a shit about that compared to the absolute heaven of my youngest child getting a car. My dreams are all about only having work to think about.

I ended up getting an au pair when I was in much the same situation as you, the DC were a bit older, probably 5 and 3. At first I got one for the summer as a trial because my Dad was terminally ill and I was worried that I would be needed urgently and I just wanted to have another adult around so that I could go if I had to and not get the DC out of bed or whatever. In fact Dad died before the au pair started but she came anyway and it was great to have an extra adult around. Some of the benefits were unexpected, like if I was cooking and there was a commotion the au pair could either go and check or keep an eye on the stove. Previously I would have to turn off the hob in case I wouldn't be able to get back for a while. It was also nice to have a conversation that wasn't at pre-schooler level sometimes, DH was so busy that he rarely had the energy to talk to me during the week. We had au pairs for about 8 years, one of them still lives nearby and comes over for Sunday lunch every now and then and DS has been to visit his family in Spain.

Things improved as the DC got older and could ask DH to do stuff for them themselves, so it wasn't always me asking. We ended up splitting the parenting, eg I did all the school stuff and he did all the football training and matches, which worked out quite well.

I hear you OP. I’m with a workaholic who wasn’t one when we married. It’s a very powerless situation to be in. People tell me “You should tell him to work less, or tell him to change jobs.” Idiots. I have asked him to work less, he says he can’t in that job, I have asked him to change jobs, he says he doesn’t want to. My options are to put up with it, or leave and wreck our kids lives while achieving nothing. So I stay and hope it improves one day.

I don’t think Mumsnet will help, it’s such an aggressive and spiteful place these days.

I had this. He left at 7am and was home about 8.30 pm and sat working on his laptop all evening. He never did a parents evening, sports day, show, nothing.

I did everything. He earnt a fortune which was nice and he was generally around on weekends but it was truly rubbish

Have you talked to him about this?

Can you afford for him to reduce his hours, or for you to get more help?

Are you just fed up with being home and would going back to work help even things out more?

But why would leaving wreck your kids lives?

OP, I hear you ! Although, in my case the same situation but 35 years ago, I often felt like a single parent. Believe me, things become easier when the children are older, just try and stick to a routine regarding kids' bedtime. I used to read them a story, put then to bed and listen to late night discussion programmes on the radio whilst ironing, what a wild life ! I remember the loneliness and living in a house that was like a shell, with no heating. My children are all graduates and professionals now.
What @WhatNoRaisins said.

Magicbeads

I totally get this. When my children were small I may as well have been a single parent. He worked morning, noon, night and weekends, often getting up at 4 am (really) and getting back usually at 9 at night. It was intolerable. We broke up in the end this was the main reason why. He didn't seem to give a shit about how it was for me. I had no -one to help me. He was in law and part of this for him was a massive ego trip to be the 'best'.

I hear ya.

men are dicks- not all of them but some are.

they have it so easy, then to come home "feeling stressed" due to work. As if you don't have work to worry about it ontop if looking after kids

Just realised that when I posted this, I didn't quote the poster I was replying to. Sorry OP, I hope you don't think it was aimed at you, it was directed at the PP who said, "surely you would have known how much he worked when you married him?"

What does he do that he can’t touch his phone until 6.30pm, surgeon?! I’d be pissed off in your shoes too OP. Once you’re back at work he should split a lot more of the responsibility with you. You definitely need a conversation with him and if he won’t engage, it’s more serious.

I am a management consultant and often do 12 hour+ days. Sat at my computer now as I type this at 11:15pm, having started at 8am.

Many jobs are not 9-5pm anymore. Those days are long gone unfortunately.

I’m in this position but am several years on, DC are 11 and 8 now.

To sum up: I’m financially sorted, but angry and lonely. My own career died after I burned out from trying to do it all. Relationship is pretty much dead. Been asking DH to move to a less demanding job for years now (we can easily afford this). It’s always “you’re right … maybe next year”.

@Voteva you’re so right. People say to me to ask him to change his hours/role as if I haven’t tried - I’ve asked nicely, I’ve cried, I’ve shouted, I’ve tried every way possible. My option now is to separate but there are lots of negatives to do that too and I do actually love him despite all this.
My options will open up as my DC get older but I suspect that when they are older I’ll be less resentful

I feel you. My dh works long hours. Added to that he also has children from a previous marriage so he’s also out ferrying them back and forth a lot. Neither of us have parents around to help either.

Working late is definitely a parenting avoidance strategy for some men.
Sometimes it’s a choice to stay late and sometimes not. Which is it for your dh, genuinely?
Have you told him just how badly this affects you? This will be very damaging for your marriage if it continues despite being avoidable if that’s the case. He needs to know that. All the time he’s at work he’s not thinking about you and how unhappy you are.

The core of this whole problem isn't the work of how hard it is to take care of two kids or the division of labor.
The problem is you're not communicating like two adult partners running a household together.
And I'm not saying that's your fault, or his fault. I don't know the dynamics of your relationship and the way you communicate. I'm just stating that there is a huge lack of communication.

Preferably, this communication should have happened before you had kids together, because a lot of these issues were perfectly preventable. But that doesn't mean you can't communicate now. However, being angry, bitter or resentful to your partner usually breaks down any constructive conversation, so try to have this talk with an open mind if you can, or involve a therapist if you can't.

Before having kids, I sat down with my husband (then boyfriend) and we went over absolutely everything we could think of.
How did we feel about the balance between work and family life?
What did we see in terms of our parents and rolemodels? Is this the life we also want? And if not, how de we change our behaviors from the things we have learned to avoind falling in the same trap?
How much room should we each have for free time, away from our responsibilities?
How do we use weekends, holidays and vacation time? What do we each see as priorities?
How do we stay out of the typical overworked mom/unbothered dad dynamic and what do we both actively need to do to avoid this.

Since having kids almost 5 years ago we've sat down more than once to re-evaluate and make changes. Husband wants to take on extra freelance work? We sit down and discuss how that would impact the balance in our family? I want to go back to school and get another degree? Same! How does homework and exams and me being less available overall impact the workload for my husband and is he up for that right now? But we talk about this without blame or anger and assume the other is just trying to do what's right most of the time, even if the outcome isn't what we would have liked.

This age is very tough. The issue is that you are seething with resentment at being left to do every. Single. Thing.

You need to talk to him and make it clear you expect things to change once you go back to work. He needs to contribute physically to the load of having kids. They are not only your kids!

@CameleonAreFightingBack I think you've nailed it with your comment about how it's not the hours but the sense of entitlement that someone else will facilitate it.

I'm the one with the all-consuming job in my family. Years ago, when my DC were little, before I met DH, I was reliant totally on a professional childminder and nursery. I still worked long hours but pick-up time was non-negotiable unless it was a real emergency. I made up the hours at home in my own time. You can't treat paid staff like that.

In later years I had a role that wasn't suitable for home working. I was often late home and often at short notice. It began having an unacceptable impact on my family and eventually I changed roles to one with the same salary that involved just as many hours and hard work but which I could do partly from home and arrange around my family needs. Saved my marriage and more importantly my relationship with my children.

It's stressful sometimes being a working parent, especially if you're the main breadwinner like so was (as a single parent) for many years, where cutting back and taking a pay cut is just not an option. Not everyone is able to get a more family friendly role, but anyone who values their family should at least explore the option and alternatives. At the very least if you value your partner you should be treating them at least the same as a paid professional, not worse!

Hope you find a resolution @Magicbeads