AIBU to want more input?

[ginmum]

I need your help to sense check how I'm feeling. I've been with OH 15 years. He is caring and consistent. We both work hard and have been successful in building good careers with a good income. Mostly I feel very lucky. But on a bad day I feel a huge sense of unfairness about the management load of our lives, which I carry. OH is always very supportive but doesn't lead on anything. This includes social arrangements, holidays and all things home related. We've achieved a lot together, including buying and renovating a house, but I am always the driver. I don't want to feel this way but I sometimes resent how much he benefits from this dynamic from the comfortable position as the passenger. We've talked about this, amicably, several times, which leads to a small change for a short period. It's just who he is and I don't feel I have the right to keep trying to change that, but it's draining. I'd love for him to sometimes bring the energy, the ideas etc, even just voluntarily getting up before me some mornings and cracking on with the day.

My husband is like this and we've had the same conversation over and over, nothing changes. The days out and life admin takes a fair bit of time to research / organise. I work 3 days because of this (plus house and Childcare) so I don't mind anymore because he's just not good at getting things done. If I didn't do it, I actually think we wouldn't do any trips or days out! Noisy would get to any appointments either!

Thank you, at least we're not alone!

OP, I’m sorry, this is just men. The vast majority of men. I don’t know why it’s always this way, but it always is.

There ARE men who are definitely leaders, but they’re normally very much red personality types and CEOs of massive companies and probably would cheat on you a bunch.

Your husband won’t change so I guess you either gotta leave him, if it’s that bad, or just accept this is how he is. Maybe think about his positive traits, and some of your traits which are less positive and he accepts. Nobody’s perfect, after all.

It is annoying though. I know.

I feel for you. I am also in similar position. We have talked and talked. And, you guessed it, nothing.
So, my approach now is trying to understand that I can only control my own behaviour and try and control how I react. Im not sure its working, though.
I see people on my social media streams who have weekly marriage meetings to plan and review, but I am not quite ready to commit to that.

OP, I feel you - we have the same dynamic in our house and it's draining.

I work full time in senior position with a high salary and long working hours. I'm also responsible for running the house and all the life admin. We also have a 7 year old DS.

It is frustrating that my husband sits back, comes along for the ride and only does what I ask (tell!) him to do. I genuinely don't know what he would do if I were to pass away suddenly!

I see you @ginmum
And yes we’ve had a similar situation. I’ve never quite understood how those men can manage to get to positions that are quite high up in companies but seem to be unable to drive anything at home.

Over tte years, I’ve ask him to organise holidays (and left him to get in with it). He’s been left in full charge of the dcs. I’ve told him I wasn’t going to deal with <insert his family/social life etc etc>.
What it has done is that he has grown more appreciative of the work I’m putting in.
Some stuff has become his responsibility- mostly HW
Some stuff has simply become very basic (like seeing his family, buying them presents etc….).

Now I’m only driving what I really want to drive.
The dcs are older and have done the driving for the stuff they were keen on.
But there are still very few areas where he is in the driver seat - it has to be something he is really really keen on.

Your replies are helpful, I'm feeling the solidarity!

Are you me!?

Same, it's the 'mental load' thing. Saw someone refer to it as being the 'frontal lobe' for the whole family, and that's how it feels. It's exhausting, and doesn't improve. I have to decide whether I accept it and that's just how it is so I have to make peace with it, or make a change and potentially leave. Sad thing is it's destroying the mutual respect, not to mention any sexual attraction.

Mostly I resent that it makes me the person who directs everything, and constantly asking or 'giving out jobs' makes a) the jobs look loke mine and they bloody aren't, and b) like a nagging harpy.

Oh dear, that went darker than I intended!

Yes, all of this! Why is this so common? I'm genuinely curious.

When there’s a dynamic you don’t like or behaviours that cause you to feel resentful you voice them to your DH. He will either make changes or he won’t. You can have these conversations multiple times per year for many years and if he doesn’t make changes the first few times you’ve brought it up then it’s never going to change.

I say this from experience. You’ll either eventually have to accept it or you’ll get fed up enough that you’ll want to split. He won’t change though.

I think the problem is men just don't think the same way but also some are leaders and some are followers.

That's my experience anyway and has been since young. There was always a leader who made decisions and others that followed. I was neither I didn't lead or follow i coexisted.

Same goes for like cleaning or responsibility, those growing up who had to clean and had responsibilities did and those that had everything done for them are the same now.

There's men out there who are driven and proactive, some in the right amounts and others that take what they want. Others coast for an easy life and others are just hopelessly lazy.

I don't think it will change though and unfortunately the more you lead the more he will follow. Problem is if you don't lead he may not either.

I could have written this. There are 1 or 2 specific interests that DH leads on. Everything else sits with me, or it doesn’t happen.

I could have written this too. Very frustrating and sometimes I feel resentful. Loving the solidarity here.

@Catsafterme yes I’m wondering how this is supposed to work if the woman isn’t a leader??

Ive also rarely seen a man who was a leader to organise hols, tidy the house, do the food shopping 🤔🤔

I think it’s because they often genuinely wouldn’t be bothered if some of those things didn’t happen. I do a lot of the social stuff in our relationship; DH not so much so we don’t often see his friends and mainly only see his mum because I get on with her so well that I arrange a lot. But with holidays abroad he’s the driving force because I find it hard to make decisions and would probably never end up making a final decision and really and truly I’m not bothered if we go abroad. Similarly with a lot of house stuff (apart from furnishings) I’m not that bothered so it ends up with him being the driving force and yes I benefit from that but I’m not entirely sure how to be the driving force on something that Im
not really bothered about

Me as well..I am the driver of every outing, holiday, birthday party, house maintenance/updating.. everything. He just trails along doing what is suggested. He never makes suggestions. He never makes plans. He never researches places to visit or things DD might like to do. He has her for some of the holidays next week and was looking up going swimming (after I suggested it, eye roll) and must have asked me 3 times if I thought toddler swim was a class or free swimming. When I responded that I don't know as I don't work there, he got annoyed with me. I think the only solution is to leave tbh.

My husband has a hard and demanding job for which he is highly paid so I take ownership of the mental load because I don’t think he could handle it on top of his job. I also work full time in a demanding job though. He does help to clean up after dinner and sometimes does an online food shop and he plays with the kids but all the holidays, trips, family days out, school admin, washing, cooking and childrens’ social lives is on me. Partly I think that he wouldn’t mind if a lot of that stuff didn’t happen but also I think that if someone takes ownership of all that stuff, it’s easy for the other person to just leave them to it.

@CameleonAreFightingBack No idea to be honest, I haven't seen it very often myself other than men being driven career wise. A lot of guys I know don't know how to feed themselves if their other half is sick or away, it's mad.

In my marriage it was the total opposite. I raised our children from new borns and was the main carer, cooked all meals, cleaned, clothes washing, food shopping, changed the beds, everything. The only thing I didn't do was plan holidays because anywhere I suggested was always shit on, so I gave up trying.

I can relate to how it likely is for a lot of women, exhausting with no appreciation. Shouldn't be that way though.

I read a brilliant article about male 'strategic incompetence' it is just plain laziness. My husband is extremely successful in his career as am I but anything outside of work fell to me. Women just seem to pick up the slack and get things done. I became resentful, short tempered and stopped.
I made him responsible for his own stuff, don't do it face the consequences. I won't do housework unless he is doing it with me, I learnt to live with his mess. I no longer cook for him, I eat lunchtime not evenings, we grocery shop together, if he hasn't put it in the trolley hard luck. His car was recently damaged and he had forgotten to protect his no claims bonus on last renewal...oh well. I expect him to do the heavy jobs. I do a list, do it don't do it but I no longer get it done and I stop doing my jobs.
Husband 'we never go out' I do, you don't because you can't be bothered to arrange it.
Husband wanted a special birthday party, great you organize it [he has never organized one for me]
Another brilliant article by a man 'my wife divorced me because I didn't put my cup in dishwasher' [google it] that woke my husband up. His wife said her marriage was a death of 1000 cuts, Everytime he did something he knew annoyed/upset or made more work for her, it showed he didn't care, she left him and made her life lighter and easier. He of course thought their marriage was great!
Saying you love someone is easy, showing it is more important by respecting your partner and doing your share, stop being a baby.
Useless men are not sexually attractive. Lol my husband wanting sex....dog needs walking, I will do it after...no you will sleep and I will have to do it, so walk dog now, I will be in bed when you get back. We get on much better now we have a more equal marriage because I am less tired and resentful. Won't say he was happy to begin with and I had to daily check myself and not do his stuff.
Men are happy to just coast and play dumb, stop being his mother and personal assistant.

I also put a blanket ban on friends or family popping round, he is not embarrassed about the mess he makes, I am. They don't look at him and think messy slob, they look at me and think lazy cow. We meet friends out. I don't like ironing, he takes his laundry to a laundry service and collects it when done.

In a similar situation, but I've made my peace with it. I drive things that are important - life admin, all admin tasks, keeping in touch with teen DD's needs, seeing my family.
We see his family much less (both families are a plane flight away), simply because it's not that important to him and I will not override him to make sure it happens.

He now takes the lead on some homework help for DD, but that is new this year and helps a lot.
He is a great husband, emotionally supportive, loyal, does not bear grudges. He just will never organize our life - and, crucially, appreciates that I do.

He would be just fine on his own, by the way - he lived alone for more than a decade and managed fine. I am not sure he would be fine on his own with a teen, but our DD will soon be able to completely fend for herself. We function quite all as it is, and yes, I sometimes wish this were a bit different, but it is good enough.

You need to buy the Fair Play Deck (I got mine cheaper on eBay). It lays out the 100 most common household/family/life tasks and mental load tasks. Each card consists of conception, planning and execution. And for a partner to take charge of that card, they must be in charge of the conception, planning and execution of the task. As in many relationships, even when one party (usually the man) executes a task - the other partner may have thought of the idea, bought the items necessary etc.

It’s really eye opening for OH and a clear visual way to help them understand the invisible mental load. Highly recommend it.

I think the cards/list may be available for free on the website too.

Decide what you actually want to do, and do that. Nothing more.
If he doesn't want to do it, and you decide you are not bothered either, then it won't get done.
But you can't get resentful if he is not doing stuff for you, that he wouldn't do for himself if it were just him.

It sounds fairly typical tbh, think it’s easier in a relationship (with kids) where the husband is the breadwinner and wife works part time, reality is that’s how a lot of relationships happily roll on or otherwise with a lot of outsourcing of those tasks

@CameleonAreFightingBack you ask how this works if the woman isn't a leader.

It kinda doesn't! My husband runs the household, in that he's at home (chronic illness) and I'm at work and he does the shopping and laundry and cooking, except when he's not well enough. But he isn't suited to the social-secretary bit. Neither am I. I do it, but poorly.

In the nearly a decade we have lived in our house, we have carried almost no home improvement projects through. Neither of us is decisive enough to go for it. We rarely book holidays either (but often go away with family - we help with arrangements but are rarely the prime movers).

Do I think this is feeble? Yes, I do, kinda. We rub along fine day to day. But we aren't doing things that would make our lives better.

There are mitigating factors (illness; I am autistic and struggle with executive function and rejection-sensitive dysphoria, which mean that I have to be absolutely convinced nobody will hate my suggestions - I know this is a lot of jargon but it's helped me understand how my brain works).