Emotionally intelligent ways of arguing.....

[quitethelittlekoala]

....or debating, or disagreeing, whatever you want to call it. DH and I need to have some long talks. I'm dreading them because he often makes me feel small, like I'm overreatincg, etc etc. It's mainly about the way he talks to me and the DC - the tone of voice, the instantly jumping to the negatives in a situation, instantly trying to find the person to blame. It's hard to explain. I think he must not like himself very much if he feels this constant need to do the other person down. It's not shouting and swearing, anything like that. It's subtle. But it's constant and wears me down.

I want to try and use a positive approach wherever I can. I know it doesn't help, for example, to say things like "You NEVER do XXX" or "Why do you ALWAYS XXX?" I try and avoid those. Does anyone have any more tips or resources for good ways to talk that don't instantly put the other person on the defensive? Thank you.

Just sack it off.

I get what you're trying to do, but this approach only works if you're BOTH trying to use it.

If one person is bending over backwards trying to word things carefully, while the other is going on the attack and not regulating their words or emotions then it can't work.

@MrsDaniFilth I don't know what you mean, sorry.

It sounds like you need marriage counselling or a meditator as your styles are too different. And that's me trying to be kind.

Are the children walking in eggshells too or just you?

@Sparklfairy thanks, I understand what you're saying. But I still want to set an example rather than reacting back in a knee-jerk manner. I don't think he's completely beyond hope, he has improved over the years.

@INeedAnotherName DD (14) is actually very good at calling him out. They both like fast-paced debates about the world, politics etc, whereas I think really slowly and don't like confrontation - but I know I need to.

My go to response to smile and “yes, you’re probably right.”

And then go do something else. My DP sounds similar to yours in some ways. He knows at this point, that I think he’s speaking like an idiot.

Another one is “ok, you win” and walk away.

The classic advice is to frame it with 'I' not 'you'. So instead of saying 'You do this' or 'You make me feel small' say 'I feel really put down when you...'

I have learned to stand extremely firm when DH says I am over reacting. I tell him I am reacting which is not the same as overreacting and I won't be trained into not reacting at all when he drives me nuts because I'm neither a robot nor a Stepford wife. Reacting is not the same as over reacting. Emotional reaction to negative experiences is totally healthy and normal so I don't accept any attempt to pathologise it.

It is my experience that for anything to change I need a BLAZING row because nothing else gets through to DH. We have one every 3-5 years. Our last one was two weeks ago. i haven't overeaten since. Very interesting. I listened respectfully to his point of view but just refused to tolerate any more bullshit dismissal of how I feel on the receiving end of - as you say, OP - all those small but constant negatives.

The first thing needed isn't a technique, its mutual acceptance that a problem exists which needs fixing. Otherwise, anything is controlling behaviour, one person telling the other what to do.

The basic problem is you can't be the advisor with a "good idea" and a party to the conflict that needs to the resolved, because its the communication between you that is the problem in the first place. This is why a therapist or councillor works, they're apart from the problem, a trusted voice for everyone involved.

Moving on, you did identify a good start. Language is very important. There's a lot of guides out there, in general I try to avoid anything that sounds like it speaks for someone else. As much as possible, I speak up for and defend I, I think, that makes me feel etc. So I try not to contradict someone's stated intent, but express and defend how it makes me feel and seek for it to be respected.

You need buy in from both people, and a willingness to listen. No system is perfect, mistakes happen, you need trust and a real desire to make it work. I had a problem with a wonderful friend recently, something she said in a group chat, so a bit of shame involved here. She's amazing, so I kept quiet in the group chat and sent a delicately written message expressing myself directly, in private. Realising it might go wrong in text, I asked for a phone call. We chatted and we sorted it out, listening carefully to each other, working out together what went wrong

As someone who's had to deal with difficult, defensive and controlling men in my household in the past - you need to find your own, very strong boundaries on acceptable behaviour, and stick to them.

It's very hard because things can become negative very quickly with a man who is like that. Remember the need to blame, condescend and deflect stems from their own insecurities, not anything you are doing.

First I would say you need to know that your feelings are valid. It doesn't matter if he doesn't feel the same things as you, you still feel them and that's not wrong and deserves to be addressed. When you truly know and believe that, it doesn't matter what tone he uses, you will recognise him trying to shut you down in real time and realise how emotionally immature he is acting. It will help keep you strong.

You need to remain in control of yourself at all times during these discussions. Put down ground rules for both your sakes, agree that you will discuss things calmly, sitting down, taking turns to speak and listen to each other.

Say in advance that you're not going to continue discussing anything if he begins to display behaviours that are not conducive to a decent discussion, such as insults or dismissiveness. That you will walk away and return to it later when you are both calm and open to listen.

Remind yourselves that you are a team, both on the same side, and that the home should be a calm, pleasant place to be, a refuge from the complicated outside world.

Be prepared to walk away in that moment if things do get beyond that calm, respectful discussion. Take some deep breaths, and allow the other person to collect themselves and pull back from that path of defensiveness, with all the wild extrapolations and sneering 'come backs ' to even the mildest critiques you might offer. It tends to snowball once it has started, so best to nip it in the bud rather than engage with it.

If these tips don't work, and you have really given it a chance, then I would start looking at ways to disentangle yourself from this man.

try reading books like “how to talk so children will listen/how to listen so children will talk. Also look into what is called non violent communication. Both will give you ideas for how to manage the conversation in a productive way. Its possible that if you change your style of response he may change his style of engagement. But not if his goal is to humiliate and control you and the children. Then he won’t change.

If you think he just doesn’t know what a mean blowhard he is then sit him down and say “It bothers me when our conversations and interactions run off the rails and turn into criticism sessions. I feel hurt and shut down when you speak to me as though I am the help/unimportant/a stranger” I think we need help communicating in a kinder manner. Can we read some books/take some classes/watch some youtubes?”

@Hermione101 @TotalOverhaul @spookehtooth thank you, this is really good advice. I don't feel we're at the end of the road, just that he needs to make some changes in the way he converses if he wants me to stay. I just think sometimes he's incapable of stepping back and thinking, "what's the outcome I want from this conversation and is my way of expressing it going to help or hurt that?" Usually, it doesn't help. I just wish he could see how different our relationship would be if he just started from a more positive standpoint.

@Begsthequestion @pikkumyy77 thank you, thank you, thank you.

This only works if he wants to help your marriage, rather than win an argument.
just tell him, I feel unhappy, I think we don’t communicate well, and it feels like someone needs to win the argument, it doesn’t make me feel good, maybe it doesn’t make you feel good? What do you think?
you can say I’d like our marriage to be stronger, I care about you and I want us to work together and both be happy, what do you think?
that’s a joint problem that needs a joint solution. And it’s focused on improvement rather than calling out poor behaviour.
but at that point If he denies there’s a problem or gets defensive, or doesn’t want to work on it I don’t think you have a chance, maybe a counsellor could help, but only if he is willing to work with them.

If he does want to work on it then you could look to set ground rules, that apply to everyone, such as no name calling.

when he jumps to negatives, you could say things like ok you’ve known me for x years, do I usually act like that? No? So why do you think I’ve done it now? Does that seem like a fair assumption? You may get to the bottom of some issues you have.
alternatively you’re opening up a new way for him to belittle you. So you need to be careful that this isn’t just a way for him to continue to be cruel, but now you’ve asked for it.

I don’t think you should have your 14 year old daughter in a position where she needs to call her dad out for belittling her and putting her down

what I mean is - rather than going through all this - just be relentlessly cheery!

works for me!

@quitethelittlekoala I understand. There's a problem that post though "he needs to ..." That has to be his realisation, you can only communicate it to him, and its only true if you really are prepared to walk away over it. He will only change if he believes it is true

There is a risk that he will challenge the truth of that statement, attempt to call your bluff believing its not that serious. If you don't walk, then he's right.

It sounds savage, but we react to truth or what we believe is true. It's the lizard part of our brain that thinks everything's okay so long as it doesn't negatively impact our basic needs

Listen to David Burns on the Feeling Good Podcast when he talks about the Five Secrets Of Effective Communication and practice like crazy

You can only change and control yourself and your reactions to things.

Have a read of Gottman on soft start ups. There is a lot about using I instead of you, avoiding criticism so that it becomes less personal. Lead the way with making the changes and often the other party will follow.

If he was brought up in an environment where people attacked and belittled each other to 'win' arguments, he won't know any different. It is his normal. It was mine. I am still a work in progress.

Thanks all, this is really useful, I'm listening to the Feeling Good podcast now and there are some really good tips – disarming technique etc. I know I need to be the bigger person and lead by example – it's just so hard sometimes.

Hey, It is hard to lead ! Your feelings are totally normal. It gets easier with practice. You need to make a periodic check that you're not being a doormat as well.

Also, if you're doing it well, you should notice his behaviour change for the better and that is very encouraging. Try to inject light humour in ihings where possible. Laugh at yourself, silly things you do.

Look up Non-Violent Communication (NVC). Marshall Rosenberg. It's all based on identifying feelings and needs. He says that all anyone is ever doing is just trying to meet their own needs (eg for security, respect, freedom, belonging, etc). It's the strategies we use to meet these needs that sometimes come into conflict.

The first step is to identify your own needs, and then have a guess at what your partner's needs are. Acknowledge the feelings you are both having. Finally, what do you both want to change?
Conflict is simply the operating system trying to update itself.

Try to clear the air as soon as a problem arises, before things accumulate and you become angry or resentful.
I think it is helpful to limit a discussion to one topic only .
Ask him to listen and then state your problem as simply as possible, ie. , "I feel disrespected when you raise your voice." Then stick to that even when he tries to twist your words around , change the subject, blame you, etc.

Trying to address too many problems at once will make him defensive.

How much effort do you think he is putting into jinking how to communicate with you? Sounds like you are doing all the running.

Problem is, people focus on the communication being the problem, when often, the problem is the other persons attitude to you: how they view you.

There is a book called ‘7 principles of a successful marriage’ which is all based on actual research.

OP,
David Burns has a book called Feeling Good Together which explains in more detail the technique. On the Podcast he plays out examples of it skillfully.

I look at it like learning Russian. You often can find a book very helpful for understanding the principles but simply hearing and copying a Russian person speaking in context is how small children learn fluent Russian - and you can learn as an adult the same way - hearing skilled communicators in action.

David Burns does stress this takes practice and "the Death of The Ego". You have to let go of the feeling you are right, which is extremely counter intuitive for most people. Especially competitive people! He used to practice 30 minutes a day "talking" to people on paper, in theoretical dispute situations.

The other technique is using a Time Out. This is when one or the other of you as reached Overwhelm, and you can no longer mirror their words as you are simply too far down the path of annoyed, or in brain terms, your reptilian brain is activated and the stress of that state causes your logical brain to be unable to communicate skilfully. The person in front of you just becomes your enemy, someone to shut out.

You need to respectfully as for time away and come back calmer having thought things through and deciding you do actually want a relationship with this person. John Gottman calls this state Flooding and says we need a minimum of 20 minutes break for the blood chemistry to get back to normal.