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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Asking for a friend

65 replies

Hei253 · 20/10/2023 14:35

So I'm posting on behalf of my friend (if you've seen any of my other posts it's the same friend I'm referring to - let's call him Karl(40) to protect identities I'll change all the names involved.
As a bit of background for you all, Karl met Tori(54) about 18 years ago when he was in his early 20's and not innocent but maybe a little naive. It was pretty much love at first sight for Karl as Tori is a good looking woman with curves in all the right places and always has men after her. Anyway they got into a relationship which lasted about 4-5 years. The relationship was apparently very toxic back then as Tori is a narcissist and only cares about herself. She used to make Karl feel worthless as she never cared about his feelings and how she made him feel. Tori was only happy when Karl was all over her in the bedroom or talking about her. She would put him down and argue with him all the time making out that it was his faults that caused the arguments. The relationship was already on the rocks when Tori fell pregnant with their daughter Katie (now 14). Now we could argue that Karl should've been more careful at the time but Tori was on the pill allegedly and Karl saw the pregnancy as a total betrayal of his trust that Tori would get pregnant and have a baby to him without his consent but let's not dwell on that part please as that's not my point. It's simply there to emphasise the feelings Karl has towards Tori.
Needless to say, Karl became a great dad to Katie and is a huge part of her life but the relationship never survived that hurt he felt on top of the emotional abuse he had suffered over those few years whilst they were together.
It was Tori who finally ended the relationship after seeing a text message from another woman on Karl's phone. He had matched with a woman online who he was talking to (nothing more) mainly because he felt he couldn't talk to Tori without an argument. He would never have actually cheated on Tori as all of those needs were being met, he just felt like he had lost himself and this other woman was someone to listen to him.
Anyway, over the years Karl has been a great dad but has always resented Tori for her narcissistic behaviour as this was ultimately the problem with their relationship and what has meant he couldn't give Katie the family life he always wanted her to have. However he has never been able to get over Tori completely and move on to find someone else, someone who he truly deserves.
Over the years whenever Tori has wanted an ego boost she would be sexting Karl knowing she still has this power over him but on the whole they haven't really ever got back together.
Fast forward 13-14 years and they are starting a relationship with each other again. This time is way more serious than it's ever been in the last 13 years and after just a month Tori is apparently head over heels in love with him again, but nothing has actually changed! Karl has said how he doesn't even like her as a person because she can be so hurtful and nasty, he feels he can't be himself around her as he's constantly walking on eggshells trying not to set off another argument. He says he's still in love with her but he has become mostly indifferent to her. They have just had three days away together and quite frankly I think he'd rather have gone with me! He doesn't miss her when they're not together, he isn't as upset by her words as much, almost as though he's become numb to her. He does still feel attracted to her sexually and says he loves her but it seems like he isn't 'in love' with her anymore and only actually loves the idea of what it could be like if she was nice all of the time rather than just 5% of the time.
Karl is well aware that this relationship isn't great and I think he even knows it won't last but he wants to be there and be closer to his daughter - especially as she gets older and she is gaining her own independence he feels like he's losing her more. That's the main reason he is wanting to be with Tori again as he's said to me that if it wasn't for Katie he would've walked away from Tori years ago and never looked back.
Do you guys think that Tori will ever change her behaviour? Is Karl right to settle for a relationship with Tori knowing how toxic it is just for the sake of giving his daughter a better life? I know that's a tough one but what kind of message is it giving to Katie at an impressionable age that is ok to put up with an unhealthy relationship?
Please let me know your thoughts 🙏

OP posts:
Rogue1001MNer · 20/10/2023 22:36

Hei253 · 20/10/2023 22:09

My last post about Karl was actually something that happened to him earlier this year. He's not been on dating sites since they started getting back together because he doesn't want to give her any excuse to accuse him of cheating this time.

What happened that you felt the need to post it on 6th October in that case, @Hei253?

Also, in the other thread, you post that you often find his behaviour unacceptable, and say it makes you cringe.

To be very clear, I'm not generally one of those mners who regularly checks out the OP's previous posts, but it was right there in your opening post... an invitation to check what you've previously posted about this man. I didn't recognise your user name, so I did go looking.

In your other posts and threads you slag off and criticise him AND say your friends do/say the same.
And the running undercurrent in all of them is a quite sad "pick me" theme, where it comes across that you hope this wonderful man (who reads like a twat) will, at some point, notice, appreciate and fancy you.

It's quite embarrassing to read

Seaoftroubles · 20/10/2023 22:49

He has done a right number on you OP. He is not going to choose you no matter how 'understanding' you are. He is going to stay with his wife for the easy option, and probably carry on chatting to women on dating sites when he wants an ego boost. Move on and leave him to get on with it. It's not your problem.

Hei253 · 20/10/2023 23:11

Rania78 · 20/10/2023 18:20

Karl has to be careful where he puts his…you know what…and learn to wear a condom or withdraw.
Karl shouldn’t have cheated on her. And no…I do not believe for a minute she is a narcissist.
Karl married a woman 14 years his senior? I understand he is 40 and she is 54. That’s a huge difference. Was it love at first sight indeed? Does Tori come from a rich family by any chance?
Karl is getting back together with her for the shake of his daughter? Well, they could perfectly co-parent.

Karl is a mega t…t, playing the victim in order to get into your pants. At the same time he makes sure he doesn’t have a serious relationship with you because he has already explained to you that he is “getting back woth his ex”. Eeerrr…are you sure they ever split?

I am actually convinced that Tori has suffered at his hand but being a stupid woman she still loves him and keeps taking him back. And may e she thinks of their daughter and the fact she is a teenager and needs both her parents.

Darling….how did you fall for this?

Karl should be more careful.
He shouldn't have cheated on Tori by messaging another woman.
It was pretty much love at first sight when she used to come into the supermarket where he worked at the time. And no, she isn't rich. Neither are her family. She has a nice house and drives a Mercedes but Karl isn't bothered by those things. He has his own house and nice car. She's even been saying how she's struggling for money and might have to sell her business and the house of she can't afford things as they are so he's definitely not with her for money.
Karl's main reason for getting back with her is for the sake of his DD so he can try and make up for all the things he missed out on. Even though he would pick her up from school and cook her tea and does loads of fun stuff with her, it's the little things he's missed out on over the years and no matter how well 2 people co parent there's still a lot he has missed out on by not living with Katie and Tori. The other side of the coin is that he's not found love with anyone else so he's prepared to settle for this as the best option he's got.
None of what he is telling me is to play the victim to me to get into my knickers I can assure you. Karl and Tori have both had many other relationships in the 13 or so years that they've been split up (they were never married so not divorced either). It's not just Karl who tells me of Tori's behaviour either so not sure how you can say you don't believe she's not a narcissist. What evidence do people actually want for this? Would people be sticking up for her this much if she physically abused Karl and many people had seen the bruises? Why is it not believable that Karl is actually telling the truth about Tori but because he thinks it's better for his daughter he's willing to try and make their relationship work this time?

OP posts:
Rogue1001MNer · 20/10/2023 23:43

Karl's main reason for getting back with her is for the sake of his DD so he can try and make up for all the things he missed out on.

And because he wants to fuck tori. An inconvenient truth you are choosing to ignore, despite his actions which tell a different story.

pinkyredrose · 21/10/2023 15:08

She's more into masquerade balls and being wined and dined and bought expensive gifts and he's more take the kids rock climbing and ice skating and get a take away on the way home.

he just thinks that by getting back with Tori that he can make up for what he has missed (brushing her hair for school, tucking her in bed on a night, helping with homework every day, making sure Katie eats well when Tori is out partying).

Omfg, you're so naive Op! Masquerade balls indeed?!

pinkyredrose · 21/10/2023 15:13

It was pretty much love at first sight when she used to come into the supermarket where he worked at the time.

It's like reading Take a Break 😆

Yettisrus2 · 21/10/2023 15:24

Who the f goes to masquerade balls?!

Seriously you are far too invested in your so called friend's relationship. You need to mind your own business. He isn't a Saint but you paint him as one. Having been married to an abusive man I wouldn't go back there (as I said to my boss yesterday) even if hell froze over.

I think you have unresolved feelings for this man and its clouding your judgement.

Rania78 · 21/10/2023 16:22

Poor Tori…that’s all I m saying. Wonder why she is takong him back.

GladysHeeler · 21/10/2023 16:25

She's more into masquerade balls and being wined and dined and bought expensive gifts and he's more take the kids rock climbing and ice skating and get a take away on the way home

Fuck me he's so perfect isn't he! 😂

YellowDots · 21/10/2023 16:26

Rania78 · 21/10/2023 16:22

Poor Tori…that’s all I m saying. Wonder why she is takong him back.

She needs a baby sitter so she can go to masquerade balls.

Eyesopenwideawake · 21/10/2023 16:27

Totally agree with you that he was in the wrong to do what he did but he says he was only talking to this woman because he felt worthless in his relationship and craved someone who would listen to him and how he felt.

So Karl's never heard of therapists, huh? 🙄

Rania78 · 21/10/2023 16:37

And “be wined and dined” @YellowDots . Don’t forget that 😂
I am sure the poor woman has no idea how he has painted her to other people just to play the victim and make women feel sorry for him (and then bed them).

Fahbeep · 21/10/2023 17:35

Hi Karl, Fahbeep here. Why are you pretending to be your own friend? If you're not Karl, you're over invested and should focus on your own life. Karl and Tori can sort their own shit out.

Rania78 · 21/10/2023 17:51

That’s it….I am ready to date Karl and help him find true love…I won’t let him in the hands of this horrible, vile, narcissist Tori….

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