Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Asking for a friend

65 replies

Hei253 · 20/10/2023 14:35

So I'm posting on behalf of my friend (if you've seen any of my other posts it's the same friend I'm referring to - let's call him Karl(40) to protect identities I'll change all the names involved.
As a bit of background for you all, Karl met Tori(54) about 18 years ago when he was in his early 20's and not innocent but maybe a little naive. It was pretty much love at first sight for Karl as Tori is a good looking woman with curves in all the right places and always has men after her. Anyway they got into a relationship which lasted about 4-5 years. The relationship was apparently very toxic back then as Tori is a narcissist and only cares about herself. She used to make Karl feel worthless as she never cared about his feelings and how she made him feel. Tori was only happy when Karl was all over her in the bedroom or talking about her. She would put him down and argue with him all the time making out that it was his faults that caused the arguments. The relationship was already on the rocks when Tori fell pregnant with their daughter Katie (now 14). Now we could argue that Karl should've been more careful at the time but Tori was on the pill allegedly and Karl saw the pregnancy as a total betrayal of his trust that Tori would get pregnant and have a baby to him without his consent but let's not dwell on that part please as that's not my point. It's simply there to emphasise the feelings Karl has towards Tori.
Needless to say, Karl became a great dad to Katie and is a huge part of her life but the relationship never survived that hurt he felt on top of the emotional abuse he had suffered over those few years whilst they were together.
It was Tori who finally ended the relationship after seeing a text message from another woman on Karl's phone. He had matched with a woman online who he was talking to (nothing more) mainly because he felt he couldn't talk to Tori without an argument. He would never have actually cheated on Tori as all of those needs were being met, he just felt like he had lost himself and this other woman was someone to listen to him.
Anyway, over the years Karl has been a great dad but has always resented Tori for her narcissistic behaviour as this was ultimately the problem with their relationship and what has meant he couldn't give Katie the family life he always wanted her to have. However he has never been able to get over Tori completely and move on to find someone else, someone who he truly deserves.
Over the years whenever Tori has wanted an ego boost she would be sexting Karl knowing she still has this power over him but on the whole they haven't really ever got back together.
Fast forward 13-14 years and they are starting a relationship with each other again. This time is way more serious than it's ever been in the last 13 years and after just a month Tori is apparently head over heels in love with him again, but nothing has actually changed! Karl has said how he doesn't even like her as a person because she can be so hurtful and nasty, he feels he can't be himself around her as he's constantly walking on eggshells trying not to set off another argument. He says he's still in love with her but he has become mostly indifferent to her. They have just had three days away together and quite frankly I think he'd rather have gone with me! He doesn't miss her when they're not together, he isn't as upset by her words as much, almost as though he's become numb to her. He does still feel attracted to her sexually and says he loves her but it seems like he isn't 'in love' with her anymore and only actually loves the idea of what it could be like if she was nice all of the time rather than just 5% of the time.
Karl is well aware that this relationship isn't great and I think he even knows it won't last but he wants to be there and be closer to his daughter - especially as she gets older and she is gaining her own independence he feels like he's losing her more. That's the main reason he is wanting to be with Tori again as he's said to me that if it wasn't for Katie he would've walked away from Tori years ago and never looked back.
Do you guys think that Tori will ever change her behaviour? Is Karl right to settle for a relationship with Tori knowing how toxic it is just for the sake of giving his daughter a better life? I know that's a tough one but what kind of message is it giving to Katie at an impressionable age that is ok to put up with an unhealthy relationship?
Please let me know your thoughts 🙏

OP posts:
Rania78 · 20/10/2023 18:20

Karl has to be careful where he puts his…you know what…and learn to wear a condom or withdraw.
Karl shouldn’t have cheated on her. And no…I do not believe for a minute she is a narcissist.
Karl married a woman 14 years his senior? I understand he is 40 and she is 54. That’s a huge difference. Was it love at first sight indeed? Does Tori come from a rich family by any chance?
Karl is getting back together with her for the shake of his daughter? Well, they could perfectly co-parent.

Karl is a mega t…t, playing the victim in order to get into your pants. At the same time he makes sure he doesn’t have a serious relationship with you because he has already explained to you that he is “getting back woth his ex”. Eeerrr…are you sure they ever split?

I am actually convinced that Tori has suffered at his hand but being a stupid woman she still loves him and keeps taking him back. And may e she thinks of their daughter and the fact she is a teenager and needs both her parents.

Darling….how did you fall for this?

perfectcolourfound · 20/10/2023 18:22

If he's getting back together with her, it's because he WANTS to get back together with her.

It's as simple as that.

You have a very biased view of him, and yet he still comes across as awful, self-centred and possibly a bit thick.

(I was on the pill when I got pregnant. I didn't 'trap' DH. It happened equally to both of us, neither of us was to 'blame'. It wasn't more my fault somehow because I was the pg one. It takes 2 people equally to make a baby.)

It comes across as you're in love with this man and you're looking for every reaosn to explain why he's with this woman except the obvious one- he wants to be.

villagelife1992 · 20/10/2023 18:25

'He's only with her now as he wants a two parent family' 😂🤦🏼‍♀️ No, he's gone back because he can't find anyone else and wants a shag. He didn't give a fuck about the two parent family when he was cheating.
He sound like a dick.

PoisonMaple · 20/10/2023 18:26

Dacadactyl · 20/10/2023 15:48

As a PP said, what's it to you?!

And your writing style is ridiculous BTW.

THIS!!!!! With bells on.

I laughed.

Poor Tori.

BettyPhuckzer · 20/10/2023 18:32

"""Totally agree with you that he was in the wrong to do what he did but he says he was only talking to this woman because he felt worthless in his relationship and craved someone who would listen to him and how he felt. Went the wrong way about it I agree."""

It was a shame he couldn't talk to you, OP.

slaggybumbum · 20/10/2023 18:54

If this is your plot line, I don’t think you are likely to find a publisher. Also consider making you characters more likeable, so the readers give a fuck.

StasisMom · 20/10/2023 19:08

So he's such a great dad that he's rekindling a relationship with his DD's mother, whom he purportedly can't stand? Yeah, that should keep her on her toes.

Rogue1001MNer · 20/10/2023 19:30

Karl needs to stop thinking with his dick

Rogue1001MNer · 20/10/2023 19:37

"if you've seen any of my other posts it's the same friend I'm referring to"

just searched.

This friend,according to you, is currently on dating websites

Rania78 · 20/10/2023 19:54

Rogue1001MNer · 20/10/2023 19:37

"if you've seen any of my other posts it's the same friend I'm referring to"

just searched.

This friend,according to you, is currently on dating websites

Ooohhhh poor, innocent, lilly white Karl….

DoozieDoh · 20/10/2023 20:42

Ooohhhh poor, innocent, lilly white Karl….

Well, he did have some input on getting his wife pregnant.

Rania78 · 20/10/2023 20:55

This story really reminds me of a guy at work. He is 45 and wife 55, married early when she fell pregnant, have a daughter around this age. He has a very innocent nice guy look and is rather cute.
It must be a coincidence.

User56785 · 20/10/2023 20:59

Rania78 · 20/10/2023 20:55

This story really reminds me of a guy at work. He is 45 and wife 55, married early when she fell pregnant, have a daughter around this age. He has a very innocent nice guy look and is rather cute.
It must be a coincidence.

Confused Are you suggesting that there's only one couple in the world who have ever had a baby?

Rania78 · 20/10/2023 21:09

User56785 · 20/10/2023 20:59

Confused Are you suggesting that there's only one couple in the world who have ever had a baby?

No. But ages much a lot.

JL690 · 20/10/2023 21:12

To answer the three questions you asked at the end very directly
No
No
She should use their relationship as a model of what to avoid in her life.

2jacqi · 20/10/2023 21:31

really think that he should be asking his daughter if she is happy living with her mother? if she is unhappy, and she is the one who really matters, then he should go back to court and get residency. then he will be able to give katie the life he thinks she should have had. a 14 year old is old enough to choose who she wants to live with

Hei253 · 20/10/2023 21:49

LucyEwing · 20/10/2023 16:22

I don't know what you want here. Really I don't.

It's quite obvious that you think this man is the bees-knees and that he got himself in to a bad situation through little to no fault of his own.

You thought he was going to be with you and now you are surprised because he's going back to his wife. Even though he doesn't want to, as he's such a top bloke.

You have written about him in a biased way, from your point of view and you think he's a good guy. But even with this bias written in, he comes off as a dick.

I would say, go for it. Be with him, as it seems that's what you want. But he doesn't want that so you can't.

I do think he's a pretty decent bloke on most counts yes but I'm not writing this because I think me and him should be together. That is definitely not on the cards whether he's with her or not. I'd actually like him to meet someone kind and loving and for him to fall in love with so he can be happy. I don't see him happy with Tori at all and as a friend I do care about him.
I would also say that most other people also think he's a decent guy on the whole too and can't understand why he is getting back with her because they also know what she is like. I'm not saying he's completely innocent in what happened in the past but he admits that himself.
If I'd have said that she used to hit him rather than just emotionally abuse him would that have made these answers any different. Why are people so quick to stand up and say she's not a narcissist and he's as much to blame? If I was writing about a female friend getting back with a narcissistic ex boyfriend in sure you'd all be on her side.
I know Karl and his DD, and Tori's sister, and know others who know Tori who all say the same about her behaviour. They all say Karl is a saint and they don't know how anyone puts up with her, especially not Karl because they know his calm temperament and the fact they don't even like the same things. She's more into masquerade balls and being wined and dined and bought expensive gifts and he's more take the kids rock climbing and ice skating and get a take away on the way home.

OP posts:
Rogue1001MNer · 20/10/2023 21:52

he's more take the kids rock climbing and ice skating and get a take away on the way home.

And screwing tori, don't forget

Tinklyheadtilt · 20/10/2023 21:57

Stop drinking Karl's Kool Aid OP.

SavBlancTonight · 20/10/2023 22:02

Hei253 · 20/10/2023 21:49

I do think he's a pretty decent bloke on most counts yes but I'm not writing this because I think me and him should be together. That is definitely not on the cards whether he's with her or not. I'd actually like him to meet someone kind and loving and for him to fall in love with so he can be happy. I don't see him happy with Tori at all and as a friend I do care about him.
I would also say that most other people also think he's a decent guy on the whole too and can't understand why he is getting back with her because they also know what she is like. I'm not saying he's completely innocent in what happened in the past but he admits that himself.
If I'd have said that she used to hit him rather than just emotionally abuse him would that have made these answers any different. Why are people so quick to stand up and say she's not a narcissist and he's as much to blame? If I was writing about a female friend getting back with a narcissistic ex boyfriend in sure you'd all be on her side.
I know Karl and his DD, and Tori's sister, and know others who know Tori who all say the same about her behaviour. They all say Karl is a saint and they don't know how anyone puts up with her, especially not Karl because they know his calm temperament and the fact they don't even like the same things. She's more into masquerade balls and being wined and dined and bought expensive gifts and he's more take the kids rock climbing and ice skating and get a take away on the way home.

For years and years PIL regularly said they didn't know how sxBIL put up with SiL. Even her own bloody family bought into his shit, his manipulation and his lies. He was very good at it. Even just today he made an attempt. We'll recognised it but dh and I agreed that a few years ago, it would have made us question things.

So no, I think this is all bullshit and Karl is a dick who has you right where he wants tou. I assume you have sex with him? Or provide other services - meals, admin etc?

Hei253 · 20/10/2023 22:09

Rogue1001MNer · 20/10/2023 19:37

"if you've seen any of my other posts it's the same friend I'm referring to"

just searched.

This friend,according to you, is currently on dating websites

My last post about Karl was actually something that happened to him earlier this year. He's not been on dating sites since they started getting back together because he doesn't want to give her any excuse to accuse him of cheating this time.

OP posts:
SavBlancTonight · 20/10/2023 22:12

He's not been on dating sites since they started getting back together because he doesn't want to give her any excuse to accuse him of cheating this time.

This is funny.

Normal, Nice people don't go on dating websites when they are in relationships because it is generally not a nice thing to do.

AliceOlive · 20/10/2023 22:16

You are demonstrating an unhealthy level of involvement in this unhealthy situation. And he’s an ass.

Hei253 · 20/10/2023 22:25

SavBlancTonight · 20/10/2023 22:02

For years and years PIL regularly said they didn't know how sxBIL put up with SiL. Even her own bloody family bought into his shit, his manipulation and his lies. He was very good at it. Even just today he made an attempt. We'll recognised it but dh and I agreed that a few years ago, it would have made us question things.

So no, I think this is all bullshit and Karl is a dick who has you right where he wants tou. I assume you have sex with him? Or provide other services - meals, admin etc?

Karl and I dated for a couple of months a few years ago but it didn't work out. We've stayed friends ever since as we do get along with each other but there is nothing between us other than friendship. He has had other girlfriends in the past few years that I'd be more than happy for him to live happily ever after with but he's just never felt enough for them like he did/apparently still does for Tori. So no, there's nothing in it for me other than carrying about Karl's mental health and happiness and caring about Katie getting caught in the middle of it all. He has said that if Katie sees her mum upsetting him then he will end the relationship as he doesn't want to hurt Katie but he just thinks that by getting back with Tori that he can make up for what he has missed (brushing her hair for school, tucking her in bed on a night, helping with homework every day, making sure Katie eats well when Tori is out partying).

OP posts:
Meniscus · 20/10/2023 22:32

It’s like a bad soap opera written by an entire team with timeshares on a single brain cell.