I've fucked everything up

[DueyCheatemAndHow]

DH and I have never been perfect. We love each other but end up in stupid arguments which snowball into massive issues. Time and time again it happens. We are just about to try a second round of couples therapy. I'm so afraid and confused. I want to walk away just so it doesn't hurt anynore. But we have 2 small children. I don't work. I'm not sure if I'll ever be brave enough to say we are done.

I feel like a hollow shelll just walking around.

Okay.

First - that's still not "precise" or "logical" so he's gaslighting you right there and you're believing that his view is the "right" one.

Second, if he didn't say no, then can you turn the conversation around: 'that's massive, it's like the width of the cubicle. No the one we have is fine'
You say, "Nope, you said that I get to make all the decisions and I want the bigger one."

But my guess is no, because he's clearly a controlling ass.

Cross post. Does he ever take any accountability for the arguments and needing counselling etc?

@TemporarilyshyAF yes he does. He's gaslit before and went straight to therapy, he said he doesn't want to keep hurting me and he can see he is.

I agree, you’re picking at each other, he works you don’t. So I’d assume you’d do more for the kids. I’m not sure why you asked him when he last cooked for the kids then got upset when he effectively pointed out he doesn’t as he’s working, albeit with the same barb you did.

you keep posting on mumsnet, I am not clear what you wish other than attention.

you gave up work for the commute. Can’t you get a job closer to home? Are your kids at school and you’re maybe bored and alone with your thoughts?

I can tell you are really trying to save your marriage. Ignore the nasty comments about starting multiple threads. Divorce is no small matter when children are concerned. There are many excellent books on relationship. My favourites are Why Women Talk and Men Walk, 5 Languages of Love and Surrendered Wife. All very different books but I took a little from all of them when trying to rescue my own marriage 10 years ago (celebrating 25th anniversary next year). There are many more books available on Amazon. The good news is that you are a clearly intelligent person and your husband is also on board on trying to make the marriage work. Marriage therapy is a good thing. However in my experience, a lot depends on the therapist's skill. With books you would be able to go at your own pace and try little things which make sense to you. Good luck

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?.

What are your husbands parents like, do they behave like your husband?

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here from you both?.

Gaslighting is a particularly nasty form of abuse designed to make you confuse your own reality. As for he and therapy, he will likely need years of it.

Why do you think the joint counselling sessions failed first time around? I could give you a theory - it failed because your husband is abusive. If this is correct, then joint counselling is a pointless exercise.

I wanted a shower downstairs (we don't have one in the house). He set up a showroom visit.

At this point, he sounds supportive.

He said I could have total say and he would look after the kids.

Again, this all sounds great. Although there's no reason you can't both have your say really.

I say I'd like a bigger shower head than the standard one. His response 'that's massive, it's like the width of the cubicle. No the one we have is fine

It's okay for him to give his opinion too. He may just have been surprised at the giant shower head! But I agree with @GingerIsBest you could have said, "Nope, you said that I get to make all the decisions and I want the bigger one."

When we got out I said it was a bit pointless as there wasn't really a choice, we got the one cubicle they have.

What was pointless exactly? Did you get a shower or not? I don't understand this.

He exploded and said I was impossible, that I had total say and was never happy.

Exploding sounds OTT. Did you get your shower with the larger shower head then? If you did, you got what you wanted and should be happy. If you didn't, you refer back to the fact that you were supposed to have total say.

I said he vetoed the big shower, he said at no point was that the case.

I have sometimes thought my DH was vetoing something, but sometimes he points out why a floor covering may be impractical. I admit I am completely impractical. I take his comments to heart, then don't do what I want, then get pissed off. We talked it out once and he said he would totally do what I wanted if it was very important to my happiness, but that he feels he should point out pitfalls he thinks may be important. He doesn't mean I shouldn't still go ahead.

I am not saying that's what has happened in your case. I don't see any pitfall in having a bigger shower head. I'd have taken him at his word and said "Well, it IS big but I just love it...it'll save time getting wet...thanks for giving me total say!"

Ah, don't cringe! You should hear some of the arguments I've been in over the years.

It was my birthday this week and we had an argument about him not getting the kids ready for school.

Yes, it must be stressful.

I said I was tired of always being the person to run around

Did you say this during the rush to get out to school? Or at a quieter time and bring it up as an important concern that you would like discussed? I am not saying he shouldn't pull his weight but you don't really have time to get into all that first thing.

and asked him when he last cooked for the kids.

Again, that's not really important right at the time of getting the kids out for school. It's throwing in whole other issue in the middle of the already stressed situation.

Or was all this being discussed at a better time? I am unclear.

His response was 'when did u last work?'

That was a tit-for-tat barbed comment, I agree. Are there any money issues that are making him resentful of this? It is wrong that he is speaking to you in this way. If there is some problem for him with you not working, it needs to be brought out and discussed properly.

that really hurt me because I didn't want to give up work I did so because after we moved (which was what he wanted) the commute was unbearable.

That's fair enough. Do you want to go back to work? Is there anything where you are you could do? It would help you keep your independence and you will definitely need this is you decide to separate.

Has your DH developed the attitude that as you aren't working outside the home you must be everything for the home and the children?

Could you tell us more about the move? It sounds like he wanted to move. What about you? Did you get a say? Having to give up your job for it was a big step. Was it discussed between you both at the time?

Have you run these arguments past your therapist? What are they advising?

It was my birthday this week and we had an argument about him not getting the kids ready for school. I said I was tired of always being the person to run around and asked him when he last cooked for the kids. His response was 'when did u last work?' that really hurt me because I didn't want to give up work, I did so because after we moved (which was what he wanted) the commute was unbearable.

This is really confusing.

Were you upset because on your birthday you were doing everything while he was lying around having a lie in? Context is important here.

Do you generally get upset because you feel like he doesn't contribute? While he feels like as he earns the money, that's all he needs to do ? I am not a believer in the theory that th person earning the money doesn't have to do anything at home, and nothing irritates me more than the SAHP running themselves ragged while the working parent is chilling on the sofa. But arguably as a SAHP you would inevitably be picking up a lot more. So the details here are important.

When are you going back to work?

So he is a man and you are a woman?

None of this sounds insurmountable and from the examples you've given not abuse. Step one either way is you getting yourself a job. Once the financial imbalance is corrected the relationship may improve. If it doesn't you'll be needing an income of your own anyway.

Sounds like you don’t have voice he over rules you .
I bet there is more to this. .
why don’t you work ?
Do you have access to money or savings ?
If so make plans to leave go back to family and friends where you have just moved from . The sooner you make moves the less settled the kids are .
The marriage isn’t working and it sound it’s all about him .
Forget couples Counseling seek some of your own .

Don’t waste yours of your life unhappy and giving your kids issues they don’t need .

No winder you feel a shell just there not seen or herd .

Im sure someone has already suggested this but I really recommend reading (privately) Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. You can download on kindle or Apple Books app (can't remember which). If it resonates with you then I think it will at least help you feel as though someone understands.

Get back to work. The longer you are out of work, the harder it will be to get back into the work place. Start job searching today. Make getting a job your main ‘job’.

This relationship is never going to work. Relationships are not made on how good it is when everything g is fine. That are made or failed on how well you handle disagreement. And you know how that goes in your relationship. He sounds like he has complete contempt for you tbh.

Main getting yourself in a place to leave your main goal.

Stop tying yourself to him. You mention he's gaslit you in the past and had therapy, so presumably this predates the two small kids, puppy and house move.

He is what he is, he sounds intolerable to me but you've become used to it. With every further commitment you take on, the less likely you are to be able to leave him. He knows this.

Focus on building up your own life and resources, you're leaving yourself wide open here.

I remember you. I also remember telling you that you are in an abusive relationship, the boiled frog type. Please contact Women's Aid who will explain what you are going through, and what you can do about it. They do emails if you can't call.

But I'm so tired of walking on a floor that will turn to quicksand in a heartbeat and I have no idea when it's coming.
Another phrase is walking on eggshells. You are in an emotionally abusive relationship, and if you are no longer working, probably a financially abusive one too.

Please read up on emotional abuse. It is all little things designed to lower your self esteem, to lose yourself, to shut you up, to make you give up.

Emotional abuse includes non-physical behaviors that are meant to control, isolate, or frighten you. This may present in romantic relationships as threats, insults, constant monitoring, excessive jealousy, manipulation, humiliation, intimidation, dismissiveness, among others. Sometimes emotional abuse is more obvious, like a partner yelling at you or calling you names. Other times it can be more subtle, like your partner acting jealous of your friends or not wanting you to hang out with someone of another gender. While these emotionally abusive behaviors do not leave physical marks, they do hurt, disempower, and traumatize the partner who is experiencing the abuse.

The examples you posted don’t sound abusive. In fact in both of them it sounds like you were trying to pick a fight with the unnecessary, snarky little comments. Is that the usual pattern between you two? You instigate with some unpleasant comments, he explodes because he’s sick of it, and then you are upset that he exploded at you?

If so then yes, you need to end the relationship because it’s quite toxic.

OP, I’ve seen some of your other threads and this isn’t a happy relationship at all. You need to divorce and the kids are probably already picking up on what’s happening, including you saying you cried so hard you were sick once. Even young kids sense parental unhappiness. Didn’t you say you had separated at the end of august or did you get back together after that? You also sound like you need some respite as your kids are quite challenging by the sounds of it. You need to work out how to get back to work and your DH needs to pay for childcare. He’s a v high earner and it sounds like you have assets so make sure you have enough for a place of your own so that you can be self-sufficient.

But your marriage is toxic and it won’t get better.

I appreciate everyone's replies, thank you. We haven't had therapy together since the move/me giving up work so we haven't had input on that. We had another big chat last night, we agreed that when we are good we are good but the bottom seems to fall out when we arent and we can't carry on like that. We will give this therapist a go but this is the last throw of the dice. In the last year its been awful and we both recognise that.

Thanks for the update.

At least, even if you decide to separate, you will know you gave it your best shot.

That's all anyone can do.

I wish you both the best for your therapy.

Thank you. Yes I think that's how we feel. We want to know we tried everything.