I think DH and I need help

[Justnoidea]

This is going to be long.

DH and I have been together for 12 years married for 7. We have 2 kids, 5 and 3. We both work full time but I earn significantly more than DH does.

Our childcare costs are more than DH contributes to household finances, so as a family we are essentially paying him to work (his job is his passion). He does a good amount of childcare but I do more. We are fairly equal in terms of household tasks - he does more laundry/cooking/food ordering; I do all the kids mental load type stuff. We share housework and have a cleaner.

My job is intense and high pressure. I very often have to work late into the night once the kids are in bed. I don’t really have time for any hobbies or exercise or a social life as I prioritise work and seeing the kids. I actually don’t really mind this as I feel like it’s impossible to have it all and at least this way I feel like I’m doing well at work and at being a mum. We have no family anywhere near by and no other support and went through a tough time over covid when I had a newborn and toddler and suffered really bad PND that was untreated but that has fortunately resolved now.

But DH and I had an argument last night where he basically complained that I wasn’t “inspiring” him on the basis that most evenings I’m shattered and want to fall asleep in front of Netflix. I think he essentially wants me to make more of an effort with and for him. I should say that I thought our sex life was pretty good given all of the above - we have sex between 1 and 3 times/week - but I basically prefer quickies whereas DH wants candles and massages etc etc.

I basically feel outraged that I am giving so much to him and our family already and how dare he demand that I also put in a full on performance for him in the bedroom on top of all that. He feels ignored and not valued, and probably insecure because of the earning disparity. The argument was really terrible and he actually said maybe we’d be better off divorced.

i love him and don’t want that but at the same time I feel like there is a lot of resentment building on both sides and I don’t know how to get things back on track. Maybe we need relationship counselling? Or is he just totally taking the piss?

Do you go on holidays OP ?
Maybe a full break from work at a resort with some childcare may be helpful?

I think probably it is the intimacy/connection that he is missing and he’s using the sex as a sort of proxy for that.

I agree with you there.

What doesn’t sit with me is his lack of clarity. And the fact he feels he can make you the culprit, do some finger pointing and then expect you to sort it all out.
When actually as issue with intimacy/connection is an issue that can only be solved if 1- there is no finger pointing going on and 2-both partners are ready to accept they are playing a role in the situation.

eg im surprised that you are doing very long hours (more than him right?) but you are the one doing more childcare.

I’d also be reading this as ‘the script’. He can’t legitimately complain that you never have sex like they usually do, since you obviously bust your arse to make sure you do on top of everything else, so he’s had to improvise an alternative line in place of that one.

This

It may be that tinkering around the edges won't be enough to salvage this. You may need to make big, big changes.

You change jobs to a 9-5 and take a big hit on earnings.
You downsize home to save money, moving to a cheaper area if needed.
The nanny goes and is replaced with childminder/after school clubs etc., with DH doing lots of the morning drop-offs.
DH gives up the part of his job that entails going away, or changes job, so that he is around to do his fair share of childcare.
DH takes on more of the mental load, e.g. specific tasks such as the insurances, all car stuff, the DC clubs and activities, etc.

Then you might have time and energy to "inspire" him.

Definitely go to counselling, with a open mind about any and all changes.

Don't let the nanny go.

You don't want to end up paying maintenance in the event of a split on the basis that he's the hands-on parent. And if you do split, you'll need her!

I have done couples' counselling a few times. It is expensive in terms of time and money and there is generally a waiting list. It can be helpful but it's not easy and can be upsetting.

Will he find and book a counsellor, is is that another job for you to do? Worth exploring that. It will show you if he is willing to make changes himself rather than just expecting you to.

Can you both use a little bit of annual leave to have the odd Friday off together? Then go out and have a day just the two of you? Bonus if you can organize an all day activity for Nanny and youngest (send them to the zoo or something) and have some time with the house to yourself before you head out.
Another good trick if your parents are doting grandparents who would love to spend an evening with the kids - when you go and visit for a few days take the opportunity to go out for an evening date together.

Not in a lot of sectors/organisations. You shouldn't have to give up your family time in order to fulfil a job, unless you're choosing to work overtime. Add up the hours you work and it substantially reduces your hourly rate.

Whilst you may bring in more money, I think you need to shift your mindset around what that means in your household. My husband is the breadwinner and he's never expected me to do more housework nor has he ever put pressure on me to change jobs to earn more. He works hard, but so do I. He also works 9-5 managing a team of 20 and a department. He has boundaries; he will do the job to the best of his abilities within his contracted hours. He has actually turned down promotions where it means it will reduce his family time and I'm very grateful, no money is worth losing out time to chill together. Salary shouldn't mean much, beyond ensuring your family's needs are met.

@EmmaDilemma5 ive never suggested my husband should change jobs or earn more (though posters on this thread have).

And the boundaries you describe aren’t available in my industry doing the role I do. I’d have to take a c.50% pay cut to achieve a better work life balance, which as a family we can’t afford.

Realistically neither of us can or even want to change our job set up, but we need to make our relationship work around that.

But isn't that the crux of the issue? That your husband would like more of your time when you're working out of hours?

You don't want (and may struggle) to change jobs and he doesn't want to be in a relationship where his partner is working every evening and weekend.

He's not wrong to want you around more, I think it's actually really important to nurture a long term relationship. You're not wrong to prioritise a career that involves immense workloads, although must realise this doesn't often result in a happy marriage whether it's the woman or man working long hours all the time.

Only you two know what you can do to improve the situation. Personally, I'd be looking to find a job that's more conducive to family life. That may involve changing sectors or specialisms over time. Working evenings and weekends regularly will lead to burn out, stress and regret.

I'd be really unhappy if my DP was working evenings and weekends year round. In fact he changed career to reduce travel / being away before we had DC. We're not high earners but we have enough to put food on the table and we're around for each other and DD.

OP, are you happy in your life? Because I'm not sure counselling will help with the elephant in the room which is - your DH is fulfilled in his life because he has time for hobbies and his children and never has to worry about finances, and you are just a workhorse bankrolling him and struggling to find time for yourself or your children. What sacrifices has he made for the family like you have?

And now he has threatened divorce to get the only thing he lacks - which is an 'inspiring' wife. I think you have spoilt him by prioritising his needs (for only doing a fulfilling job etc) over your own. Decisions need to be made - what's best for the family rather than just him.

Options are:

1. You both maintain the status quo and he grows up and realises that intimacy with his wife is the price he pays for everything else he's enjoying in life (as you yourself said, you can't have it all).
2. He starts taking on more of the mental load/child care at home to allow you time for yourself - since you don't get it from your hobby/job like he does.
3. You change your career to something that might pay less but will allow you more family time/hobbies/intimacy - and he finds a job that pays enough to support you doing this.
4. You both remain in your professions but move closer to family for more help and support - which may involve a lifestyle adjustment if this means out of London.
5. You have a trial separation - which will show him what life is like when he's responsible for himself (drastic reality check but if he's already talking divorce, not sure he understands how easy his life is).

Thanks @xanadu123. I actually am happy in my life. As I said in my OP I recognise that I have to make sacrifices to achieve in my career and be the mother I want to be, so I’m fine with not having much of a social life or time for exercise at the moment. I also thought that DH and I had a good level of intimacy and connection with each other.

That’s why I was blindsided in a way by his complaint because I feel like he should be even happier than me with how everything is. He basically said that despite him having the career he wants, the kids he wants, the lifestyle, house etc etc he wants more of me. Which I have to say I initially thought was just completely unreasonable but some of the posts on this thread have made me rethink a bit.

I think the answer is that he can have more of me but he’s going to have to facilitate that by doing more in other ways, and we need to work out how practically we can make that work and whether it can involve small changes or needs to be big.

The problem with not having much of a social life because the children are small and you are working hard is that one day when the children are older/leaving home, you realise you don’t have the foundations of a social life as these have disappeared along the way.
I speak as a single parent, so I didn’t have much choice. But you should have a choice as you are married. Your social life and leisure time matters just as much as your husband’s. It needs to be nurtured.

I get it - you have put your relationship at the bottom of the list, thinking of it as a temporary phase while in the trenches. We did this too.

The trouble is a) he’s not ok with that and b) (speaking from experience) a temporary phase can easily turn into a way of life that you carry on with even when the DC are older and things ease up.

I think the question is what he would like you to ditch so that you have more capacity for the relationship (not sex but the relationship). Would he be happy if you earned less? Would he be willing to take over XYZ jobs that you currently do?

You’d be better off single, OP. He sounds like a great big drain on your time and energy and he doesn’t bring much to the table, literally or figuratively. You can cope with life, financially, organizationally, he can’t.

Thanks @minipie you’ve completely nailed it in terms of the issues and the possible solution.

We had a bit of a chat and we’ve agreed that he’s going to do more with the kids so that I have some more “me” time, and then hopefully that will have positive impacts on our relationship and probably family life tbh. Will see how that goes and if it’s possible for me to safeguard that time and not let it get swallowed up by kids or work (which will be down to me!).

Just to add though - you’ve created a real
impression that your husband is essentially a man child who you financially support but reading a later post -

• He earns around the national average
• your childcare costs are for a NANNY - which no average salary would likely cover since you pay then gross, er pension and NI from your net salary….
• you both trained in your respective careers.

You have talked about him initially as though he’s some layabout bum who just potters about earning nothing when he clearly isn’t. You’re just much more high flying than him, and that’s ok. But the way you described him initially feels very unfair based on your updates.

I think he’s also being honest. You’re giving everything to work and the kids and nothing to him.

You see it as sex. To him it's the connection. This all just boils down to he misses you. You say work and being a mum take up all your time, when is his time with you? When does he get your attention. Are there date nights?

I can understand why you’re upset. You think he should be a bit more understanding that your stressful job makes everything else you have (in terms of lifestyle) possible while he gets to do something ‘fun’. It’s not a bad thing that he is prioritising your relationship but you need to talk about how to make that possible. If it isn’t possible with your current job, would he genuinely want you to take a less stressful job and earn less so you can have more time together?

Just a heads up that this thread was from six months ago, and things may have moved on.

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Just noticed that too. Wonder why it popped up. How did things go OP???

Edited cos didn't see it was an old thread.

Weird that this popped up again!

Actually things are so much better between us. I think I was initially really defensive to what I perceived as him demanding yet more from me when I was already giving so much, but when I thought about it more (and this thread really helped) I saw that he did have a point and it is a good thing that he wants us to prioritise our relationship.

I made a conscious effort to be more present in all of our interactions and just more appreciative of him as a person and not just a dad. Little things like being more physically affectionate throughout the day and eating dinner together at the table instead of flaking oht in front of the tv. We are in a much better place and the kids seem a lot happier too.

This has coincided with a less busy patch for me at work though so will have to see how it is if I’m busy again, but I’m actually much more open to dialling it down and possibly taking a pay cut and moving jobs as I think the level of stress I was under was making us all suffer.