When do you stop doing things for your 18+ years children?

[BlastedPimples]

I don't know where to draw the line.

My 18 year old ds is doing year 12 for the third time. He begged and begged for this chance.

We live abroad and it's an international school so some flex is available.

Previous two times, he didn't really attend. Various things affected him like his gf breaking up with him, his dad and I divorcing after his dad was adulterous and violent to me.

So third chance at it. He is academic. Has done very well at school when younger, smashed 11+ etc.

However, term has started. He's only turning up for 80% of lessons. I've latest had a telephone call about it. He gives lip service and says he will go.

I now have Covid. He's using this an excuse not to go in. He's not tested positive for Covid.

It actually enrages me. Pisses me off so much. I can't step away from it. Just watching him fuck up again and again.

I've started refusing to drive him anywhere. Not buying him the extra meat he wants for his body building.

It's like I am starting to detest him as a lazy, scrounging taker. And I just want him to leave him. Get a job. Stop leaving his mess everywhere.

Of course he shouldn't expect a lift to rugby if he hasn't been going to school! If he's not doing school then he doesn't get to do fun things. I would make that 100% clear.

I wouldn't ask him to leave though - that's a step too far IMO.

If it's an international school are you paying for his education? I would not pay for a 3rd attempt at year 12.

He needs to get a part-time job for the meat. My ds1 had a terrible attitude in y12 but his attitude was excellent at work and he was rapidly promoted. He didn't go to uni but has been successful career wise. Instead of dragging him through y12 and y13, I should have encouraged him to work because he's been very motivated when it comes to work related learning and if he changes his mind then he could return to uni as a mature student.

Is he doing adult stuff like his own laundry and cooking the evening meal sometimes? As you are paying for his third attempt, he should be contributing with stuff like that too.

Is he motivated enough to learn to drive? I would not have given him the lift either. If he was too lazy or late for the bus then I would expect him to use his part-time job wages to get a taxi

I have no idea what I'd do in your circumstances-that sounds awful. But I certainly keep on doing things for my kids-and they're 22 and 26! I hate the "you're 18, you're on your own" attitude. It does sound as if he's struggling-can you talk to him and the school about it?
I probably wouldn't buy extra meat. But I wouldn't do that in any circumstances!

I wonder if he has an unexplored psychological problem from the family trauma? Perhaps he is self-sabotaging and isn’t conscious that he is doing it or why?

I would suggest he has some therapy to work through his reasons for doing what he is doing, just doing ‘tough love’ isn’t going to get to the bottom of it and might just sour your relationship with him. Something urgent needs to be done because he had developed bad habits which could negatively affect his entire adult life if they aren’t addressed.

Y12 or 12th Grade?

Is he following an English curriculum where he will fuck up his exam results or a US where he needs to maintain GPA to graduate?

There needs to be change here, otherwise, soon he will be 25 and still relying on someone else to get him up for work
And I say that because this is exactly what's happened to a friend's son. He is 25 and was just like your son at 18. He barely finished school but then just couldn't get up or be anywhere on time to get a job. He worked a few days in two places but kept being late/pretending he was sick and left or got fired.

After 5 long years of friend threatening to kick him out, he got a job.
Hes had it for almost 2 years. But its just 12 hours per week, starts in the evening so he doesn't have to get up early (fine) but he can have full time hours he just "doesn't want to" and because he did nothing for so long, friend is just delighted he does these 12 hours and constantly praises him, has his dinner on when he comes in, does his washing, takes 50 a week off him because he "earns so little " hes walking around laughing at her.

Dont fall Into the trap of promising to do everything if he shows up to somthing.

He needs to do it for himself.

This sounds like the son of a friend of mine. He finally told him to move out and put up a tent in the garden. His son lived in the tent for a short while, figured out that wasn't the life he wanted, went back to school and now is a successful adult.

Tough love is called for here.

I think if he is behaving like a child, treat him as one. He gets dropped off at school, you get daily evidence he has attended each class and you sign off each piece of completed homework.
Otherwise you stop funding his lazy lifestyle and he’ll need to get a job.
DT’s are now in their early 20’s and know that we will always support them in whatever they want to do. One is now working for the EU in Brussels and the other for an engineering company in Amsterdam. We live in Canada so they have had to stand on their own too feet.

Is the father involved in anyway?

Children tend to take advantage of the situations their parents are in. Especially boys will try to push their mothers because they think they can.

My older one tried to do the same and his mother sent him to live with me.

I am flexible but at the same, I take no nonsense and this is starting to sink into him.

My son has started uni this year but needs his regular dose of encouragement and pushing.

My advice is to try and get his father involved if you can and also don't get into verbal arguments. You will have to eventually put your foot down but don't push too much and too fast.

And to answer your other question, yes I will always be for them.

Our DS was told education or work, at 18 he wanted to be treated as an adult so you do adult things.

In your situation, I think I would say that DS had till Christmas to pull his socks up and get to school. He cannot stay in year 12 for ever and if he can not do full attendance until Christmas he is never going to do it.

After that he would have to find a job and join the real world.

In the meantime, I wouldn't be giving him lifts anywhere, buying anything special for him, etc etc. Tough love is required.

My son chose to work over going to uni straight away. It has honestly been the making of him. He started being on time for everything, is responsible and loving life. Could not be any prouder of him.

What qualifications will he be doing at the end of year 13?

My DS is 15. This week I refused to take him to his sports practice because he hadn’t done some things he is responsible for.
He got stuff done, normal service resumed. He gets it.
I wouldn’t expect that level of disrespect at 18 - I get he’s had a rough time but he should be making an effort when you sound so supportive. I think you need to step back.

I think what your son needs at this stage is a good sharp shock.

I would cancel his gym membership and tell him that you have done this so he won't be needing you to be buying him more meat. I can guarantee he won't like this but you can tell him since you refuses to grow up and behave like an 18 year old you will treat him like a child.
Tell him a child like him does not need a gym memberships.

I also consider taking his mobile phone off him for a period of time.

Tell him from now on he gets himself up each morning, goes to school every day, does his home work and you expect his school tests results to improve.
Until you start to see a major improvement re school and his general attitude their will be no gym membership, he will not be getting money and lift's to rugby or friend's house. Tell him as well he won't be attending no socail events as he won't have the money to go places.

I would also tell him that his friends are probably laughing as well still needing his mammy to
drive him to rugby when he could have got the bus there. I also tell him he might not play in rugby matches because he is not turning up to training.

Ask him what does he want to do after he does his final school exam's? Tell him without getting good grades he wont get into university/college. Ask him how he feel in the future watching all his friends going to university, working hard their but having some fun as well, traveling and getting good jobs?
Meanwhile he is stuck in a minimum wage job, living at home and paying you rent when his friends are all doing well and have money for car's ect?

I know a lot of lads around you sons age and the parents are strict about going to school and working to the best of their ability. If there child is not doing this or misbehaving in general their kids loses what they like for a period of time. A lot of kids his age need some parental guidance and some tough love to grow up a bit.

Your not been cruel to him but you can't continue to support him long term. He could possibly end up with no final school exam's or no learning a trade. You don't want him living with you at 25 and his only source of income is unemployment benefits.

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with him except laziness.

100% attendance from now til Christmas or you start charging him X in rent (enough that he'd need a full time job to pay it - in the UK I'd suggest something like £300) OR he moves out in Jan.

He thinks you'll never draw a line, that you're soft enough. Well, you need to stop that now.

You need to let him fail and not pick up the pieces. You are his safety net so he has no issue failing. Different when he has no money, mode of transport, job etc etc. School of hard knocks he needs to attend for a few terms .

It's worth thinking through what you are prepared to do and what impact it has on him.

In my case I was and am happy to give me children houseroom - they are now early 20s but have a bedroom in my house and are always welcome to come and live with me.
(They have a few times, in between flats etc)

However, after about 16 I trained them In how to use the washing machine, gave them their own airer etc and left them to get in with their own laundry/washing up/cooking etc.

After 18 I only did lifts if requested in advance, ditto borrowing the car. However, I explained the system to them - I'm tired of doing short notice lifts, I have been ferrying you around for a long time. Please I now want 48 hours notice if a lift is wanted, and if I'm busy then sorry I will say no.

Btw, I did find that parenting late teenagers really was a case of just watching them fuck up again and again.

They do learn from their mistakes.

Eventually.

I advise gin, binge watching TV, detachment, and developing hobbies that get you out of the house, preferably with parents of other teens so you can bitch about how annoying they are.

I hope you don't think I'm being too harsh but

erm, when he's 14 he should have started getting himself places. At 16 responsible for his own education. At 18 everything else.

Should have started to curtail supporting him much younger.

At 13 I was getting myself from school to the dentist and back again to school, on the bus. At 16 I was cycling to college and moved in with friends. At 18 I was fully independent. I'm so glad my parent gave me so much trust and it has made me a really resilient adult.

I know every child is different but getting lifts everywhere at 18 is taking the P.

I've witnessed children who have experienced parental abandonment doing a lot of testing boundaries with the parent who is still around. I think they are subconsciously getting some reassurance from knowing you are still there - however bad they get.

If your son can address the abandonment fears first and foremost you might find his behaviour resolves. He needs to know you are stable and reliably there (no matter how old he is). If he is fearing abandonment all the time, he won't be able to thrive in his studies as he will be subconsciously doing things that reassure him you won't abandon him too.

This however doesn't mean you don't set your boundaries, but I would verbalise your boundaries with the prefix I love you, you are my son, I will always be your mother, but you need to understand your responsibilities and the consequences. You're an adult now and you have joined the adulting club.

Just my psychoanalysis on situations like this. Take it or leave it.

It seems you have all been through a terrible time.

Children are defined as being direct recipients and victims of domestic abuse if they have seen, heard, sensed or known their caregiver was being attacked emotionally and/or physically.

I would suggest that your DS has experienced a traumatic childhood due to the nature of his DF, his family breaking up, being a victim of DA. This deficiency in nurture will have stunted and hobbled his own emotional growth and resilience. You can’t have done the emotional work of two parents or been emotionally sufficiently available if you were under attack and only able to survive and protect - this is absolutely not a criticism of you.

I would consider his emotional ability as that of a 12 year old maybe? And this will become compounded by the vicious circle of his perception of failure.

I would work 90% on his emotional recovery and growth. The academics / work / skills can come later at any time. I’d these foundations are not in place he will falter at every stage of life.

Kindness, compassion, respect, gentle challenge and nurture is the best way forward IMHO. He has already had a harsh start in life which is crippling his confidence - tough love would backfire.

This doesn’t mean he isn’t responsible and accountable for chores and being productive.

Don't wish to be a Mumsnet cliche but it sounds like your idea of success and his are very different, also it sounds like he process things differently from you.
Clearly you are extremely frustrated which is making it very hard for you to listen to him with an open mind, but I'd say treat him as his own person, not someone to make a success of.
Also he could have all manner of difficulties from ADHD through to different life goals.
Look at yourself as a mentor or coach to help him with his goals, you can't force someone to do anything but you can support them when they ask for help.
Good luck!

He begged me to go to this school. Was desperate to start his A levels. Attendance is a big part of being at this school. Not something you can opt out of.

I have always had a rule that I will help them as long as they are helping themselves and have stuck to that.
I also had/have a rule that they can live at home but they have to be studying full time or working full time. It doesn’t sound like your child is doing either. I have lived alone since I was 16 so it can be done. It’s far from ideal though.

You’re not helping.