Difficult mother relationship

[Finallygettingmarried]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this (and I know there have been other similar threads..)

My mother makes me feel incredibly uncomfortable.
I actually feel allergic to her to the extent that I sink into anxiety and depression after every interaction.

She was a good mother by most people standards; very involved. There was no neglect or abuse in my childhood. We were very close up until about 16 when I became more independent.

She is well liked, but I personally find her haughty and prone to looking down her nose at my choices.

She moans to everyone who will listen how sad she is we're not close. How I 'hate her'. The thing is, there's some truth in that. I'm not at all proud of that and I'm always incredibly -albeit superficially- nice to her to appease my guilt at not being able to stand her.

There's more in depth history with the situation, of course. But the summarised version is that I made a lot of dire mistakes (very shamefully dire, parents worst nightmare stuff), but turned my life around about 10 years ago. At my lowest point, she kicked me in the guts (metaphorically). Other family members were recruited in an attempt to turn them against me. I think she was disgusted by my perceived weakness at the time if I'm honest. She won't see it that way (about kicking me when I was down), not for a second. And because of that, I begin to doubt my own judgement when it comes to history.

Sorry, rambling now. Without going into too much detail, I'm not able to go no contact at the moment. But I may be able to in about 5 years. So this is about survival until then.

I've read so many books, tried so many different methods and strategies. I have far better boundaries now and have worked so much on myself to become more immune to her. But, being honest, it hasn't really worked.

I'm left feeling like a broken, horrible, pathetic person. No meds, therapy or books (and I've tried most!) seem to help with that.
Just wondered if anyone is out there to give me a good shake and a reality check, or alternatively some helpful suggestions of something to try...

She is well liked, but I personally find her haughty and prone to looking down her nose at my choices.

But the summarised version is that I made a lot of dire mistakes (very shamefully dire, parents worst nightmare stuff), but turned my life around about 10 years ago.

I think there's a lot of pain, anger, and guilt on both sides, op. You say she looks down on your choices, but then admit you made a lot of "dire" mistakes. In that case her being wary doesn't seem so unreasonable necessarily.

You're not perfect, neither is your mother. I don't know if you have kids or not, but having to watch from the sidelines as your child persists in being their own worst enemy is excruciating. Even though you've turned your life around, those old feelings of anger and guilt don't just go away. It appears your mother behaved badly, too, so it's unresolved pain coming from both sides.

Do you think your mother would be interested in going to therapy with you or perhaps on her own? If your relationship is going to be repaired, I think you will need outside help.

This post is quite uncanny because you could be my daughter. She hasn’t made poor choices in the main, but from being a wonderful, sunny happy child she turned suddenly into a very difficult young woman at 16. I really don’t understand why at all. Nothing in particular happened but she became nasty, unkind and very selfish .
I think she would probably describe me in the same way you have your mother.
I would never turn others against her and love her dearly, but I am bewildered by how dismissive hurtful and unkind she can be. We barely have a relationship now which breaks my heart. Functional whatsapp messages in which she shows no interest in me. It’s all one way traffic. Every time I see her there is a huge row instigated by her. I just don’t understand what’s going on or how to fix it.

I can only urge you to try to understand how she sees things and don’t write her off.
Can you both go away for a few days and talk things through? You need to build bridges not burn them .

Thanks for your reply.

I can imagine it can't have been easy for her to watch me self-destruct; I get that. Excruciating even.

I've thought about suggesting joint therapy, but it feels like there's almost too much there. The discord and history between us is too big (I'm not sure if that makes any sense to anyone else though..).

I just wondered if anyone else had felt this strongly and been able to overcome these feelings and how. As I say, I've tried a lot:
EFT, DBT, Psychotherapy, lots of books from the library and I can't seem to shake feeling unnerved by her. Hope it doesn't come across that I'm blaming her, I don't at all. Just trying to take responsibility for -and do something about- my own feelings..

Have you told her how you feel?

Thanks myneedycat, I'm really sorry to hear your experience with your daughter.

I'm not sure why my feelings towards my mother changed, but she was quite overly involved (controlling?) which I found very hard. You honestly don't sound like that though, so that's probably not much help in trying to unpick for you.

I appreciate your suggestion about going away. I think the situation does make her very sad. I think I perhaps just don't understand her for the most part.

Aqua at times in the past I have. She has been upset, which is understandable.ore often than not, the conversation descends into me feeling terrible as my words are twisted, so I regret starting the conversation. It just all feels so murky and confusing.

It's extremely inappropriate for your mother to be talking about your relationship with other people. No wonder you are annoyed with her. You seem to minimise and invalidate your feelings at every turn yet there will be a reason for every one of them. I think also you describe what happened with you as 'shamefully dire'. I think you definitely need to work through the feeling of shame. There will be a reason why you acted the way you did, and it will be due to some hurt you felt. I would keep tyring to find a decent pschotherapist. That in itself is quite a task, and it often misses the mark, but if you can keep trying that would be helpful. It's needs to be a long, deep proper relationship with someone you feel you can truly trust to open up to and where you can work through your feelings. You say there was no neglect or abuse in quite a pronounced way, but even in the most wonderful of mother-daughter relatonships (which yours may or may not have been) hurt happens, expecially if you are a sensitive person. The way you describe your mother talking about you makes me think you may not clearly be seeing how she was in your childhood, and how the way you were parented may have led to the 'dire mistakes'. It sounds your mother is very very far from understanding her role in what has happened to you and or having any kind of reasonable conversation about it. I would try to keep things as distant as you can possibly can. You do not owe her anything,

Just to reiterate OP, some other posters have suggested you try and work this through with your mother I would really strongly suggest you do not. Everything about the way you have written about yourself tells me that she (or your parents) have done a number on your self belief - not meaning to, but unwittingly I am sure, and you need to keep some distance for your own self preservation. Your mother needs to work out her feelings of sadness or whetever she has on her own, without putting that responsibility on you, and without you feeling that you have to take responsibility.

In short, your mother has failed you as a mother. She has kicked you when you are down, and recruited family members against you. Your sense of self has been so jeopardised that you don't even trust those facts and wonder if they actually happened. Well it sounds like they did actually happen and they are not the actions of a loving mother. It makes absolutely no difference if she is well liked or not, (Hitler was well liked by quite a lot of people - didn't make him a great person!). It can be hard to admit that our parents were sometimes just not that great people and didn't love us in the way that we wanted or deserved to be love, and to blame ourselves. You Are Not To Blame.

I think this comes down to trust, well from what you’ve written anyway. Your behaviour and life choices hurt your Mother and she has built up a wall between you both to protect herself from further hurt. She cannot trust that you will not hurt her again, so she’s stepped back. Her actions re discussing the situation between you with others is unacceptable, however, trying to enlist support is again, an indication she was/is self-protecting and validating her part in this. Trust, neither of you trust the other and until that is somehow addressed I’m uncertain of the way forward. Just my take on it. I wish you well.

From what you say you had a controlling, possibly overly involve mother and when you asserted your independence from her, she found it difficult to manage and could not support you in who you were becoming. Your mother needs to own her role in all this, and not put it on you. It does not sound like she is likely to do that.

I would seek out the 'stately homes' thread - not sure how to link to it - it contains many stories of people who have decided to go No or Low Contact with their parents to preserve their own well being and build back their self esteem

I think a mother describing her sixteen year old child as turning nasty is in fact writing her , so I am not surprised if you feel she has written you off in return. It was your job to find out what was upsetting, or understand that something was, without labelling her as 'nasty'. I think your advice for the OP to try to understand her mother is extremely off base, given that the OP is struggling with mispaced guilt already.

"writing her off" that should say

"what was upsetting her" that should have said

Why cant you go NC? it doesnt sound like it is a healthy relationship. I only went NC 9 months ago, it felt really uncomfortable for few months but now I am so grateful to get some peace.
It is hard as we have been controlled from an early age. I never believed in therapy as I made all my adult decisions from age 17 when I left home. Only now at 62 do I realise how my childhood shaped most of my decisions, lack of trust, lack of self esteem, fear, shame, attracted to the wrong people as I grew up in chaos, alcohol and violence, that was my normal. I still struggle to deal with my anger or any emotion because I never learned as a child, except how to fight and lash out.

Normal families/parents do not bring up angry, anxious children/adults, selfish parents do.
You may need space to understand your feelings/actions, you cant do that while still being in your mothers orbit.

this

Thank you for all the replies, it's very validating and helpful - I'm grateful.

Hard to explain why I can't go NC right now without outing myself in RL, but it's sadly impossible for the next at least 4 years (possibly earlier if her hold on another family member lessens).

Binkie so much resonates with me. particularly this:

Normal families/parents do not bring up angry, anxious children/adults, selfish parents do

I leaned into alcohol, chaos and bad relationships a decade ago. This is on top of a history of self harm and an eating disorder meant -for a while- I was a complete mess. Thankfully things have changed; I've healed so much since then and don't resort to any maladaptive coping behaviours (and teetotal now). But this feels like the last piece of the puzzle - getting some sort of closure and freeing myself emotionally.

Thank you ranting, I'll look for that thread. And thanks for your advice, I do need to explore my feelings of shame

I think I am sensitive, certainly as a child (I probably over compensate now). Everything felt so huge and I was painfully shy. I could never understand why for as far as I can remember, I felt 'broken'. From reading books, it's seems that's a common feeling with controlling mothers...
Still, it's hard to overcome. It's hard to trust myself and my own thoughts.

Of course I’ve tried to understand. I’ve done my absolute best . I’m talking about behaviour that had gone on for years despite lots of help, support and financial help. You have no idea what has gone on in the family, so don’t rush to judgement. My observation is that adult children are often quick to judge and can be very self centred. No mother is perfect, most of us do our absolute best with what we have.

I am sorry if I have judged you unfairly and offended you. It is just that is clear from the OP's post that her mother has NOT behaved in a loving manner and that it is not appropriate for the OP to see her mother's side of the story, she needs to be defending herself from what seems to be very toxic behaviour on the part of her mother.

I don't want to be mean but I don't think it's a universal that adult children (whatever that may mean) are quick to judge and self-centred. Why do you think she is that way? You are very quick to defend yourself i.e. I did my best, but why are you so defensive? I know you probably did your best, doesn't mean you didn't make mistakes that affected your daughter. Surely far better to own that than make it all about her?

Above post is to @Myneedycat . If you did own your part in how she is feeling, you might make some headway in your relationship with her.

I'm sorry if I have been insulting @Myneedycat. My mother would probably say the same as you about me. My mum really really hurt my feelngs and it is difficult for me to talk to her about it because the hurt is too deep, and she doesn't think she did anything wrong, so I just keep a distance. I have no idea about your situation.

I have done. We have talked about it. I’ve bent over backwards to please her and be there for her .