This space for women has been hijacked. It's not the same

[PeacefulPottering]

I'm not seeing genuine women on here.

I'm brand new to Mumsnet, I've tried several other forums about relationships. I will say this: while there are for sure "pick me" women (learned that phrase on MN two days ago, thank you, I love it) and for sure some nasty, Andrew-Tate-worshipping MRA types on here, this forum is SO much more balanced and allows for women to express themselves more than any other forum I've seen.

Incels and MRAs have ZERO going on in their lives. They are SO unlikeable and unsuitable for relationships they've started going to 3rd world countries and trafficking slaves back to the US under the guise of "marriage." (Passport Bros) Harassing women on the internet, blaming women for all their problems, and pushing the notion that women are subhuman slaves is literally the ONLY thrill they have, outside of that first, delicious bite of their hot pocket. (I don't know if they have them in the UK. They're like hand pies, and to be fair, they ARE quite delicious. We associate them with those guys who live in their parent's basement, taking breaks from their video games to microwave a hot pocket and complain on the internet that women are allowed to turn them down for sex. You know, losers.) You're gonna get some of that nastiness when you're on the internet. The key, I think, is it call it out when you see it and to give it exactly the attention it deserves: none.

What qualities must we possess in order to be deemed a genuine woman?

Only bothering to answer this because I'm procrastinating while smoking a fag ...

A woman is an adult human female, who was female at birth. Single exception for males born with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS) and raised as girls.

Women are not males pretending to be women, thinking they feel like they're women, or presuming to know more about women's lives than women do. Women are not males posting about sexual matters from what they imagine to be a female point of view. Women are not males telling women that they don't understand their own lives (mansplaining). No woman has ever produced sperm or had the anatomy to do so.

No "deeming" required 🙂

What space? It's never been only women.

Yup. Tedious isn't it?
Whenever the term 'misandry' pops up, or 'the double standards on NN are shocking' or 'it would be different if a man were asking'...
Whenever I open a thread where women are talking about male bad behaviour to read 'women can be just as bad' followed by anecdotes that stretch my credulity beyond its capacity...
Whenever I read a thread from a 'woman' confessing to some unlikely wrong doing involving a male stripper, or waxing lyrical about how she's 21 and finds 50 year old men so sexy...
I just yawn, sigh and think for gods sake Bernard, give it a rest and leave us be.

I think the issue with the Relationships board is that it never used to appear on “trending”.

But now it does and all sorts of weirdos jump on some very sensitive threads with AIBU-style aggro.

I think that change should be reversed, personally.

I’m a laydee!

I’ve mislaid my lace hankie, but I really am! Pinkie promise!

I agree, there have been some bunfights recently, where I suspect those berating the OP wouldn’t recognise a woman if she introduced herself. Still, sensible women can pick out the sensible advice from among the crap. I worry about the more vulnerable ones, abused and controlled in real life they come here hoping for some common sense and reassurance that it’s not them it’s him. Sometimes the gaslighting carries on here.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines to get past the OP’s own programming that she’s inevitably in the wrong to see the truth. Fewer people do that these days, it seems.

Hi, I'M A MAN. I know this is Feminism: Sex & Gender Discussions and I've just said this twenty times already on this thread alone, but anyway HERE'S MY WALL OF 'WITTY' TEXT FOR YOU ALL TO ADMIRE.

^^ Sick of seeing this shit.

Blimey, someone reported my post! Considering it never mentioned the T-word and was very factual, I'm flummoxed. Has @MNHQ gone all Facebook and deleted me for smoking a fag??

It’s not for women.
Its a PARENTING site.

It ain't called PARENTSNET, though, is it?

It's a public forum for anyone

I didn't read the OP as saying she didn't want men to post, I read it that she noticed the forum has attracted a lot of MRA incels and Pick Me women who advise women having relationship difficulties to humiliate themselves and allow men to humiliate them instead of allowing women to talk about how to be strong and supportive while still having some dignity.

All these "it's a public forum, anyone can post here" posts are probably coming from those who come here to slam and bash women.

You forgot the drip feed where it later turns out he cheated on her 'ages ago' and has been flirting with her friend/his work colleague because he feels so lonely and sad. Poor thing.

Oh, I'm a bloke. I didn't see any indication I wasn't allowed. I'm sure I had to say I was when I joined

Quire right I forgot about that bit!
The sad thing is there are genuinely plenty of men on here and in real life that are kind, witty and decent company.
As usual it is the vocal minority ruining it for the decent people.

Does anyone know if ShatnersWig still posts? He was great, always did his research, I miss him.

We know men are 'allowed'. That's not the point. The presence of men isn't the issue, it's the behaviour. It's one thing having men included, it's quite another having it hammered home at every opportunity that men are maligned and are victims, and that we're 'sexist' against them. Having them celebrated, defended and uplifted all the time is very wearying, when it would be nice to have just one place where we could speak freely, discuss our experiences, without constantly being told off for not centering men.
There was a thread the other day where the OP had had negative experience of men. It was perfectly obvious from the title it would be a thread where women shared and were supportive of each other around this issue. Yet with tiresome predictability along come the men to tell her and others they were wrong. I mean, just why? That woman and others on the thread had been assaulted and abused. Why can't men just think, this one thread maybe isnt the place for me and my opinions, and just leave women be?

I'm back. Thanks, @MNHQ 🤗

I've been on here 10+ years, it's always been open to parents and non-parents of both sexes. MN have clarified that this is their intent many, many times.

I find this insistence that people who don't agree with suchandsuch a PoV are not women bizarre. Women have the same range of personalities and opinions as men.

I think lots of posters on here are fuckwits but not because of what I imagine their genitals to be.

We know men are 'allowed'. That's not the point. The presence of men isn't the issue, it's the behaviour. It's one thing having men included, it's quite another having it hammered home at every opportunity that men are maligned and are victims, and that we're 'sexist' against them.

I genuinely don't think most of the people doing this are men. The MRA ploppers can't help but out themselves immediately and don't have the patience for sustained discussion. MN has always had a lot of middle class, stay at home, Tory voting, 'traditionalist' women on the boards.

Just look at any thread about splitting the bill on the date and you'll see the most old fashioned views represented. It really isn't new.

@5128gap is the thread you're referring to "To think it is actually mostly men?" If you are, it wasn't just men being critical of the OP. Obviously, I'm taking how they present in good faith when I say that & nothing I read made me doubt. To be clear, I participated but I was not one of them. One of my posts said that, for a man, taking that approach was not only unhelpful but counterproductive.

How anyone, especially a man, can think criticising a woman who feels like that is going to achieve anything is beyond me 🤔It only takes imaging the conversation in reverse, being spoken to as you intend to speak to someone and asking "Realistically, how would I respond?" to have a reasonable idea where the conversation is really going to end up

Yes @spookehtooth that's the thread, and yes some of the dissenting posters were women.
And while I think some of their comments were insensitive in the context of the thread, as women they have a right to comment on women's experiences of male behaviour, in a way that men do not.
Its one thing for a woman to say that her experience of male behaviour towards her as a woman has led her to believe that men are not problematic; but quite another for a man to tell us that as a man he knows men are not problematic, and if we think otherwise we're wrong.

By whom, what for, and how can you tell?

We're not that far apart with our thoughts really. I think for a useful conversation everyone should be thinking about how they engage with someone who has a different point of view if they want to have a useful and interesting conversation