Very long - Adult children have turned child against me. I blame myself. (TW. SA)

[Usedtobeswimming]

Not posted for ages but MN got me through what happened 13 years ago. I think that those events make what has happened now understandable and I expect to be judged . I just don’t know how to keep going .

My eldest DD2 , lives nearby , close to DD1, both mid 20’s and neurodiverse .My 13yo is currently with them and all three have cut contact and say that I won’t see them again.
A week ago apparently, DD’s school rang her siblings to discuss disclosures she’d made about me and asking if she could stay with them. DD2 apparently agreed with the disclosures and a TA took DD4 to her house and the TA and DD2 submitted a safeguarding referral to SS. DD2 text me to say this had happened but not until later that evening. She then came to my house and accused me of serious abuse towards DD4 and said I “had it coming “ and “ deserved it”

I rang safeguarding next morning. They said that no advice regarding action had been given to school or my DD and that she was free to be at home with me, however . Since she is 13 and has chosen to be with a sibling , no action could be taken.
The allegations were read out to me and were untrue or exaggerations of events which have sadly involved police and mh services as they have resulted from DD1 and DS having crises and meltdowns. Understandably, DD4 does find these events upsetting . She is protected as far as is logistically possible and is a registered young carer and has a caseworker who helps support her . However, she had also alleged that I use extreme physical violence towards her. I have never used any physical or verbal aggression or violence towards any of my children .

I work as a senior professional in an allied service in another county .

The safeguarding referral was investigated within 24 hours and not upheld. I was told there are no concerns about my parenting and that the case had been closed . My DD4 to be offered a voluntary needs assessment but allocation not urgent and may take several weeks . Also that she can choose to do this without me.

I haven’t seen any of them since . I have not pestered or been reactive ( although I feel like beating on the door / sending emotional messages etc) I’ve sent short and direct messages hoping they are ok and sending love and offering to listen. I am blocked though so these are not seen.

The backstory - DD4’s bio f was a psychopath who terrorised my DC and me. She has never had contact with him. Safeguarding were involved from her birth and I took every step to protect all my DC after posting on MN. He didn’t live with us and has never been heard of since then.
I carry deep shame and guilt at what happened . I have never defended that I was the adult and allowed him to have contact with us . My DC have understandably been angry with me about this ever since.

My DS, 22, had a psychotic episode during lockdown and was sectioned . He disclosed SA by that man. Once he became well, he declined help and wouldn’t speak about it.
DD1 and DD2 did not see him when he was unwell because of covid restrictions,but he spoke on the phone to them saying that I’d had him locked up to prevent the truth coming out .

He has been very stressed in recent months and a fortnight ago DD4 expressed fear that he was becoming psychotic again. She is the only other sibling who experienced his psychosis back then and was naturally terrified as he was hallucinating and saying very scary things.

I asked DD2 to help me with DS by being with him while waiting for crisis team, or having DD4 at her house while I did. DS was very frightened and hallucinating and asking for help .( He shares a house with DD3) DD2 said she couldn’t help and told me to back off DS and let him live his life . He later rang her from several hundreds of miles away where he had gone by Uber costing thousands and was afraid he was under surveillance. She drove to get him and dropped him at his house. DD3 came over to mine as afraid of things he was saying.

That was the night before DD4 went to school and apparently asked not to come home to me. I assume she was- understandably - afraid that DS might be there. DD1 messaged DD3 to say she and DD2 would be keeping DD4 with them and also supporting DS to keep away from me.

DS was sectioned and taken to H two days later. I had to meet them at his and DD3 house to open the front door . The decision to assess him came from police reports of his behaviour and concerns raise by public in the area he’d been in when DD2 collected him .

DD1 and 2 do not believe he is unwell. They say that what he is saying is driven by anger at me and that the solution is NC with me. Obviously his treatment team do not agree with them . They believe I have power over his treatment team due to my profession. Obvs that isn’t true.

DD4 is attending school as far as I know . DS messaged me from H last night and said DD’s 1 and 2 had visited him earlier and told him they would be keeping DD4 away from me and that I was going to have the book thrown at me for what I’ve done to all my children .

Despite him believing he is an avenging angel with superpowers , he expressed anger about this , said he doesn’t hold me responsible but that he understands why they are doing it.

I’ve rung and emailed school but had no response yet. I’ve also raised a complaint about the way school acted in not informing me that DD was wanting to return to siblings house , for driving her there without informing me and for not informing me that a safeguarding was being raised .

SS say just stand back and let it all settle down - she’ll come home eventually. Any concerns I have need to fall within safeguarding framework and put forward formally etc . That would be inflammatory I feel. I’m off work. I’ve got covid ( again).

DD3 is at mine and is also very upset - and does not agree with siblings actions but is also blocked by them as has told them this.

I am completely devastated and feel like I cannot bounce back from this .
I had an extremely abusive childhood and my parents were complicit - and often present - with what was perpetrated by that man ( and previous abusers of me)

I have only ever known abusive relationships and have simply progressed along a spectrum of overt to covert etc. I have no interest in relationships any more.

People say I’m amazing and so strong .I’m respected in my profession .
But I just see myself as holding it together on the outside .
inside I believe I am a failure who has got away with it. It’s like there are two realities - there’s always been ; the one my birth family had of me - evil troublemaker who deserves what she gets … and survivor fighting the sad but inevitable outcome of abuse . The middle ground I don’t know .

My adult children are, I guess, acting out anger and pain . My youngest DD knows nothing about her birth father . I’m a lot older than her peers mothers and she frequently says she prefers being with her sibs . Of course she does ! She goes there or rings/ messages whenever I set limits that she doesn’t like. They have always spoiled and indulged her - we all have . They have never backed me up on anything. They didn’t have the luxuries that she has because she has been my only child the last few years .

I guess I’m looking for any thoughts or advice about what I could or should do for the best for DD4 now . I have PR but no idea what’s going on and no power to act. I’m afraid that anything I do will be turned against me .
I have huge fear and a sense of doom that I’m going to be arrested and imprisoned even though SS have told me I’m not being investigated.

I’ve only ever known fear and to keep on picking up the pieces and moving on. We are all financially stable - each child has own property- because my birth family were wealthy and have mostly passed away, so inheritance.

Thats fortunate . I don’t know what purpose I have now and do wonder if they would now genuinely be better off if I disappeared as I cannot see how I can ever repair this .
thanks if you managed to read all of this

Not as serious op but 1 of my adult dc was throughly poisoned against me by his df.. Another ds now got a huge issue with me presumably spending time with dc1. Ex died and God knows what shit was spewed by dc 1 at that time. Dc 3 is keeping out of it and acting 'normal'.. Dc's 1 and 2 def off the chart.. Ime leave things for now op. You have 1 dc to concentrate on. I presume authorities will contact you as siblings don't have PR.... Keep yourself well physically - will help with things mentally imo...sounds mostly out of your control anyway. Leave them to their fantasies... The truth will emerge ime.

I read your post and I hope you don’t mind but it seems that the older children have slotted into a ‘parenting’ role and lines have been blurred as they have been exposed to, too much in their lives.
I know it’s hard being a single parent but your children seem to have had a lot of responsibility on their shoulders, you asking the daughter to stay with your son to watch him while he was having an episode,
you expecting your children to support or back you up when it comes to your youngest child and you ‘all’ spoiling and indulging her. This isn’t a role a sibling or siblings should be filling really.
The situation with your son with the experience he went through with your ex is horrific and I really hope he gets the help and support he needs, childhood sexual abuse is a very traumatic experience to go through and it never leaves you.
Your daughters are probably trying to fill a role that they probably feel you couldn’t growing up when things were bad with this ex partner of yours.
This is not me having a go I’m just trying to see it from all angles, let the dust settle and try and get social services to communicate with your youngest daughter and hopefully things can be mended. I also feel there’s more to this situation as well for the children to cut contact.

Thank you , yes this makes sense . I am sure that this their experience. I’m not trying to make it all about me. But I can see how that is the way it sounds , and the way it looks to my children.
I was sexually abused by many different adults when I was a child . I have allowed this to repeat with my own child and possibly the others too . I do understand that I failed to protect them and that they need to protect themselves and would want to protect their youngest sibling .
I have worked full time throughout their childhoods and their father did not support us in any way. I realise that this has led to their having their material but clearly not emotional needs met by me.
it’s helpful to hear that I will likely be contacted if need be.
What you say fits with the schools perspective and is pretty much what they said to me when I rang to ask where my DD was. So I’m glad she has been heard .
Im struggling to accept the reality of what I have done and to live with myself . That’s been the case throughout DD’s life so it is probable that she has picked up on this too.

@Usedtobeswimming its a step forward that you recognise this, it’s hard when you’ve had this experience in childhood.
When you don’t have the tools or support you need to change things unfortunately you relive the example you have been set as a child.
For me it was domestic abuse, I was exposed to too much growing up in a dysfunctional, abusive and terrifying household, because of this I went on at a very young vulnerable age to meet an older man who abused me for years I ended up having my oldest son with him and my son was exposed to violence towards myself when he was younger. I broke the cycle when my son was nearly 7 and fled with him. We haven’t seen him for over 3 years now.
I educated myself on abuse and anything else I could to change and heal. It’s never too late for you to do the same.
I do think in time your youngest will want to see and speak to you, I would start in a few weeks writing her a letter and maybe her sisters too acknowledging the hurt, confusion and responsibility they would have faced and felt and maybe write a way forward for you all if that’s the choice they want to make.
Lean on social services for support, reach out ask them what’s available.
I really hope things can change for you and your family can mend and move forward.

so what outcome are you expecting? Social services are right - your children need to settle down. It is possible that your youngest daughter won't come back and you need to accept it. Additionally, from the perspective of your older children they are actually protecting her and giving her safe and stable environment, something you were unable to give them. Any action you will take to try and force her back will be met with defensiveness of their end and make situation worse

Reach out for help for yourself, speak to social services and keep lines of communication open on your end. All of your children may eventually start speaking to you again, but it has to come from them

What is best for DD4 is almost certainly a calm home life where her emotional needs are met.

You say that both you and her siblings don't have financial worries due to an inheritance, so there are no issues about people not having money to feed and look after her.

She has almost certainly found the situation with DS extremely scary. People who are having psychotic episodes can be terrifying and she may have feared verbal or physical abuse from him. Or he may have actually verbally or physically abused her - can you be sure this has not happened?

She almost certainly needs an extended period of time in an environment where she feels safe. Clearly, she does not feel safe at your house. The best way to move forward is to give her time to calm down and move out of fight or flight and then talk to her. Fine out what she wants in order to feel safe and then no matter what it is, provide it.

Thank you . Just in case I wasn’t clear , my 13yo is a child . Her sibs are now adults , but vulnerable . The youngest is 22 and the eldest almost 30. But I realise that this is just semantics and that their experiences and concerns are valid and have to be heard and understood.
I’ve reached out many times over the years. We were offered family support years ago on several occasions but none of the older ones wanted to engage with that or with case workers . Things were different back then I guess .

I’ve spent lots of time supporting my eldest DD during the last 15 years and I’ve always listened to and not defended her and her siblings expressions of anger towards me .

I work in a profession where I have to have awareness of safeguarding and abuse etc. I’m well aware of how this looks and sounds .

im not trying to force anyone to do anything . I hear what you’re saying on this thread and am regretting making a complaint about how this was handled . I just didn’t think that school had a role in calling me an unfit parent and telling me I am a perpetrator . But I do of course believe this about myself . I have done for a very long time , although I’ve tried to be a stable and cheerful mum to my youngest .

we had a family holiday at the end of last month - the youngest three and I . Just in the uk . It seemed a calm and cheerful time. I guess all this has been building up inside my youngest child for a long time without my noticing and she hasn’t felt able to tell me.

I expected to be flamed and judged . I know that is justified .

My partners got 2 daughters aged 26 and 24. He was in their lives until they were around 7 and 8 ish. But he had a very toxic relationship with his wife. Violent. Alcohol, drugs and cheating. His daughters didn't see him for around 10 years and then the younger one knocked on the door. Eventually they cut him off again because he had drink issues that he's now dealt with.

In all honesty I feel sad for both sides. His girls have watched their parents be drunks and angry. They've had to deal with their parents mental health. But I also believe my partner has a lovely side to offer them. He just doesn't know how to fix things or make it right. There's also issues with the grandad bad mouthing my partner. But he was very narcissistic and cheated on his wife etc. He died recently but I think he was a big reason for my partner not fixing the relationship with them. His dad ended up with a wealthy lady and threw money at them.

I feel in these cases the kids need to understand you. They also need to feel you are strong and capable. I think it's important to communicate in a way that can work for you all. But it's important for the kids to know you are there for them.

There's also a 14 year old sibling involved with my partners kids (his ex wife had her) and that girl goes to visit her big sisters but the mums not included.

It's sad and your story really made me think of his family and the mess of it all. I really don't have much advice other than being completely honest with yourself and your children about everything and giving them time and space but also occasional caring contact if that's acceptable so they can see you care.

The school have to treat as true allegations that are made, especially if they are about violence from a parent. So they operated their standard protocol - don't inform the parents (because they are the ones accused).

The fact SS dropped the case means they do not think you are an unfit parent.

What is clearly happening is that a 13 year old is getting exposed to situations that frighten her.

This is really hard for you because you have five kids and it looks like you are trying to take care of them as best you can, particularly with DS.

However, from the schools point of view a 13 year old child is being exposed to scary family situations with out of control adults. (You mention DS's psychotic episodes and DDs meltdowns). This is not good and you seem to be balancing the needs to your adult children against the needs of your teenager whereas the school think you should be giving much more priority to her needs.

Thank you . Yes I hear you. She is in a place she has chosen and so must be feeling safe and supported there. That’s the priority .

you have to take into consideration that at 13 your child is capable of making judgements - sometimes biased and not fully informed, but judgements nonetheless

her being angry with you does not mean you didn't succeed in being a good parent to her - but she may still hold grudge over what has happened to her siblings and how their situation was handled, hence why she feels safer with them

this does not mean it won't change as the time goes by and she may eventually want to talk - they all may.

Going to try and simplify this, because your own posts are larded with confusion, fear (understandable) and self-loathing (unhelpful).

You have 5 kids aged 13 - 25.
All except the youngest have their own homes, all nearby.
The two eldest DDs are ND and mentally/emotionally unstable.
DS is having severe psychotic episodes.
DD4 is attending school and currently staying with DD2 or DD1.
DD5 is staying with DD2, having falsely accused you of abuse.
All the others except DS have likewise accused you.

You were married to a psychopath who physically, mentally and probably sexually abused you and all your children. You got rid of him before your youngest was born, so14 years ago.

You gloss over the older children's fathers but have indicated they were also abusive, so presumably no help with your family's ongoing problems.

Your own parents were severely abusive and enabled the psychopath. This does explain why your life subsequently played out as it did, and also why you feel a personal responsibility - beyond that of a mother - for your children's unhappiness. It's a well-recognised effect of abuse, where the parents make the child feel guilty about everything.

You're feeling guilty about things that are not actually your fault. You married a monster because you didn't know that isn't normal, and your parents encouraged it. HE abused your kids, not you. It's to your credit that you got rid of him - I remember your threads, I think (have we been on MN for 14 years??!!) In any case, we know monsters are not easily left; you deserve credit for that.

While I think I can understand where your kids are coming from, especially given their mental issues, I also feel they are failing to take responsibility for their own well-being, continuing instead to blame you instead.

Are they getting therapeutic support to start growing up, healing?

How is DS now? Where's he living?

Safeguarding will rightly not pursue a case against you because there is none.
You need to stop taking all the blame for everything.

OP just to say no, you don't deserve to be flamed. You clearly did what you could in a very difficult situation. So you made mistakes. Everyone does.

Your situation sounds heartbreaking and I hope you can reestablish communications.

Gosh so much pain and harm for you all, I'm so sorry.

I missed the bit about the school saying you're an unfit parent - did they really say that or is that how their words made you feel? 2 different things.

Yes let things die down. My medium-long term advice is rather than get into discussions about whose narrative is right and wrong, allow space and be curious for there to be multiple, complex narratives about what's going on, who did what etc. Relationships break down when we don't feel heard and respected. Everyone will have their individual experience and it doesn't invalidate it to be different from others.

Good luck x

I think that allowing things to calm down is the right thing to do. Send dd1 and dd2 messages to say that you are grateful for them looking after their siblings. I think that they are trying to be parental figures by providing them with stability.

In the mean time find out if dd1 and dd2 need any of the younger kids stuff like uniform and other comfort items. Drop the stuff off at their houses and don't expect to see or talk to the kids.

All of the kids could do with some stability right now (including dd1 and dd2) While your motherly instincts will be missing the younger ones, you need to resist lashing out and doing anything rash.

The child who is with you needs calm and stability. She needs reassuring and a shoulder to cry on. She will be angry and sad plus all of the emotions in between but you need to try and remain calm. Things will calm down over time and inflaming things with dd1 and dd2 will keep things chaotic longer.

💐 to you OP.

The person who rang me said those words. She said she and my adult DD had spoken and agreed this. She said - jn reply to my question- that I am a perpetrator so don’t get to be informed . I understand now, thanks to this thread , that this was correct , and I have emailed them retracting my complaint and holding my hands up as someone who has failed my DD, as she would not have communicated feeling unsafe had she felt safe .
I haven’t heard or respected my DC . That is evident . I’ve always known this to be the case . I have emailed school retracting my complaint and admitting that I am a risk to my DD and that she is best placed with her sibling .
the objective “truth “ isn’t really the issue here . Or anywhere . It is the experience of the children . I reported my parents when I was a child , many times . I wasn’t believed or even listened to. Same when I was a teenager and in my twenties . Even when I was married . I’m glad my children can be heard and I’m happy to take the consequences.

Regardless of anything else I seriously think you sound like you need help yourself right now.

Sounds like so much is going on and as previous poster said, I really hope you have irl support, you deserve care and support too.

@Usedtobeswimming considering your child is not safe with the siblings...could you perhaps use this opportunity to re-visit therapy? You do need help - both as an individual and as a mother.

There is a lot of trauma to unpack, including your own. You need to address it and work through it, not least because it will put you in a better position to talk things through with your children and understand them better

Oh, OP. I’m sorry for everything you’ve gone through. It sounds so tough. I don’t have any answers or advice, I’m afraid, but just wanted to say that you’ve clearly raised some very caring children so you’ve definitely got something right. Also — give it time; it’s all very new and raw atm (for all of you) but won’t be forever. X

Ds is in hospital, detained, unwell.
He usually lives with DD3 .
DD3 , 21 yo, is currently staying with me due to house having been smashed up by DS. Is working/ out with friends / pursuing hobby and is ok although upset at situation with sibs since all are NC with them .
DD4 is with DD2 and partner . DD1 lives next door to them .
I know I need to get a grip

Are the school communicating with you now? I don’t understand how they wouldn’t be if you have PR and social care have confirmed no ongoing safeguarding processes are happening. Don’t they need you as a contact and for permissions etc?

it all sounds terribly traumatic for everyone involved. I hope some space and calm time will help everyone towards recovering a little. Do you think your adult DDs are able to be competent carers for your 13 yr old? If so I would leave it be and wait for the social care involvement to support with moving forward.

I hope you all get the help you need

No, school are not communicating with me. I have PR. I understand from this thread that they don’t have to communicate with me if they consider this would increase risk to DD.
I don’t necessarily consider my adult DD would be great at parenting my youngest . But she has chosen to go there and school support this . In fact, DD2 is more regularly and frequently involved in the meltdowns and psychosis of other sibs. However , they believe that these situations are understandable because of my past failure to protect and that I make them worse by involving services .

I make them worse by involving services

As stated by out-of-control individuals everywhere. I gather, then, that the older DD who's assumed parental rights is not engaging with services and refuses to take responsibility for her own behaviours?

It's easier to tell herself you're to blame for everything and refuse the support she needs, where she'd be asked to look at things objectively.

This doesn't look at all tenable for anybody, least of all your younger two. I agree with PPs that the best - and hardest - thing is just to wait a while. As long as DD5 is alive and going to school, there's space for things to shake down a little.

It's good to know DS is currently safe, but that's another shit-storm waiting to happen after he's stabilised. What are the chances of sorting out his house ready for his return?

And how are you, health-wise? If you're no longer testing positive for covid, are you able to return to work, maybe part-time? Sounds like routine and adult company could be good for you.