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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Did you love a parent that you knew was abusive?

52 replies

Duxelle · 21/09/2023 19:40

Prompted by hearing DD tell her abuser father that she loves and misses him. She's only 6..

She doesn't know how he treated us and the background to the split and why we left (domestic abuse)

Why are children bonded to abusive parents?

Did you love your abusive parent?

OP posts:
sorrynotathome · 22/09/2023 07:43

MattBerrysHair · 21/09/2023 21:21

I love both my abusive parents because that's how children, even adult ones, are programmed. I don't trust or like them very much as an adult, but I will always love them. It took well into adulthood to understand they were abusive.

I don’t understand this, sorry. There is no law that says you must love your parents, and there is no scientific evidence that all children love their parents. It’s a societal norm, that’s all.

Duxelle · 22/09/2023 09:00

I agree loving both parents as a kid is just the societal norm. She said it yesterday and immediately looked at me. She does sometimes say as well she wishes mummy and daddy could see each other and mummy was at home looking after her.
Its pretty sad tbh

OP posts:
Plinkyplonkyplod · 22/09/2023 10:10

@sorrynotathome

There's lots of evidence about attachment in early years. There was even a famous experimental study (Harlow '58) which demonstrated that infant rhesus monkeys will develop a strong attachment to a fake monkey made out of fabric in the absence of any other parent. Lots of studies of attachment in children. Young children aren't even aware of societal norms - they instinctively love (or perhaps better phrasing would be form strong attachments to) their parent figures. I think this has been quite clearly established in experimental research! And there is a very strong theoretical underpinning for this (children must form strong attachments to their parents because they completely rely on their parents for survival). Children with very disturbed attachments (eg caused by abuse) literally don't develop normally.

Obviously, in older children and adults societal influences may play a role in whether someone identifies with the idea that they "love" their parents. But OPs daughter is only 6.

Crunchingleaf · 22/09/2023 11:01

My eldest is a teenager and I think he is very conflicted regarding his feelings towards his father. Now that you say it I have never heard DC tell his dad that he loves him or vice versa. He has told me he loves his stepdad and his siblings and me so love is something he is comfortable expressing verbally.

She is very young yet to really process her feelings and relationship with her father. I think my DC on some level will always be afraid of his father but still wants his approval. It’s tough watching from the sidelines because his father doesn’t have the ability to be what DC needs.

Duxelle · 22/09/2023 12:31

I think because I know my ex through lived experience, he will be lapping it up. He also made her repeat it during the call, she said I love you and he was like "sorry, what's that?" I considered it to be very performative from him.
Overall, whilst it felt like a knife in the heart for me, I'm glad she expressed love. She's so innocent and has no clue of what's going on in the background (family court) because I've done my best to shield her.

OP posts:
Starboy14 · 22/09/2023 12:43

I think it's a biological thing. My friends dad wasn't in her life(by choice) at all until she was a teenager. She talks about him like he was this great man/father(he's deceased now). I can't understand it at all. He wasn't even a good dad after he waltzed back in. They were merely on friendly terms.

LubaLuca · 22/09/2023 12:50

Yes, in spite of it. It's impossible to explain.

swanteapot · 22/09/2023 13:20

As an adult I struggle with saying I "love" them. I feel harsh writing this to be honest. I keep my abusive parent at arms length but they are not very well mentally and I realise some of the behaviour may have stemmed from this mental illness. It's complicated. I do however keep visits short and infrequent to avoid confrontation. But I am also upset and sad about their behaviour and trying to work through my own ambiguous feelings towards them.

Duxelle · 22/09/2023 20:19

LubaLuca · 22/09/2023 12:50

Yes, in spite of it. It's impossible to explain.

It is impossible

OP posts:
CheekyHobson · 22/09/2023 20:27

I think because I know my ex through lived experience, he will be lapping it up. He also made her repeat it during the call, she said I love you and he was like "sorry, what's that?" I considered it to be very performative from him.

It may also be performative to a degree from her. Keep in mind that children instinctively learn what behaviours keep them safe and develop patterns of doing things a certain way because they unconsciously understand that it gets them better results. It's why growing up in an abusive or toxic family warps children's understandings of how to behave in the world.

Your daughter may well feel a natural love towards and desire for the approval of her father. But she may also have picked up that sometimes Daddy is nice to her and sometimes he's not, and if she says 'I love you' (regardless of whether that is attached to genuine feelings of love at that moment) she gets approval and the safe version of Daddy.

daffodilandtulip · 22/09/2023 20:53

I didn't realise mine were abusive until I was older, but I don't think I ever loved them. It took me even longer to realise that the bystander/enabler was just as abusive.

You just get guilted into this "you only have one mum/dad", so you never feel able to say it.

Duxelle · 22/09/2023 22:23

I feel very conflicted at the moment. Whilst I don't talk about him negatively at all to her, I also don't talk about him positively or indeed at all..my house has nothing in to remind her of him. No photos, nothing. She doesn't tell me she loves or misses him. She never mentions him at all.

OP posts:
keffie12 · 22/09/2023 23:45

Duxelle · 22/09/2023 22:23

I feel very conflicted at the moment. Whilst I don't talk about him negatively at all to her, I also don't talk about him positively or indeed at all..my house has nothing in to remind her of him. No photos, nothing. She doesn't tell me she loves or misses him. She never mentions him at all.

Have you thought about counselling through women's aid. It's free, though donations are always welcome

I'm 23 left the ex and abuse from him and childhood. I've found myself back in therapy through women's aid again this year.

Counselling may help you deal with where you are right now.

I've had to have various types and specialist counselling over the past 23 years at different times.

It will help you deal with this, which helps you help your daughter

Madamepickles · 23/09/2023 16:42

I'm the child of an abusive father too, and wanted to add some thoughts - my mother unfortunately didn't leave him until I was in my late teens, so please know you've already done the best thing you could do for her, which is to leave.

With very young children, as has been said, there's an instinctive drive to bond/attach to parents, even awful ones, because we cannot survive alone. She will be bonded to him at this point. He's her dad and she's 6. It's normal.

However I wouldn't necessarily attach the label 'love' to it. At 6, you don't really understand what that means. It's a label attached to the emotions you feel for close relatives. She has a natural, instinctive emotional response to him, and she has been told this is called love. You are calling it love. But it may not be.

By the time I was 8/9, I knew I didn't like him, and I think the realisation that I didn't love him either was around this time. It wasn't something I really told anyone about, no-one wants to hear children say that and you can be shamed and told off for it. By the time I hit early teens the plan was to get to uni and cut all contact.

But during this, he still expected me to tell him I loved him, and when I was pressured to say it, I did. It was the safest option. I learned early on that I could say the words but not feel them. I hated saying it, though, it made me feel sick. But I had to. I wanted to spit in his face and tell him my biggest hope was that he would die. Instead I told him I loved him because that's what he wanted to hear and I was too frightened to say no.

Please don't judge your daughter for saying it. She's a baby trying to navigate a relationship with an abusive adult man.

Shortbread49 · 23/09/2023 17:01

Redribbontale mine are the same I used to make a big effort to tell them things or think of nice topics of conversation they couldn’t criticise then I stopped . Now I offer them a cup of tea and some cake and see how long it takes them to speak to me the record is 5 hours for my mum and nit all all fir my dad (in 2 days). Gave stopped entirely now they haven’t spoken to me for 18 months and don’t appear to have noticed

MintJulia · 23/09/2023 17:20

No. I regarded him with contempt from about 8yo onwards.

My view didn't change as I became an adult. My 8yo assessment was spot on. 🙁

Bbq1 · 23/09/2023 17:28

Duxelle · 21/09/2023 21:28

Well, I rephrase that.
She does not know the full extent of the abuse. I have told her that we had to leave as daddy wasn't very kind to us and mummy had to leave to keep us both safe. That's the extent of her understanding.
She tells me after seeing him he doesn't let her talk about me or draw me pictures. She tells me she doesn't like his kisses or cuddles as its too much..
Yet..... hearing her tell him she loves him was like a spear through my heart.

However, pp has rephrased it mindfully for me. It is a shallow relationship and I am grateful she has that rather than being scared or terrified of him.

It's just hard when you know the real person and what they've done.

She doesn't like his kisses ir cuddles as they are "too much" means what exactly does too much mean. I'd be concerned about that, Op.

Peacendkindness · 23/09/2023 18:20

My father is abusive - I yearn for affection and like most abusers at times I glowed with pride as he bestowed time, a hug or told me he loved me - I yearned for it and I knew I loved him as I want a hug all the time or at least not to be hit, made to feel 2 inches tall etc if I queried it on my 20 s or 30s the fact they never rang or visited as they were or so ‘too busy’ etc or ‘getting old’ my parents once said they couldn’t come to visit at 200 miles was too far and the next day they drive a 1000 miles across Europe….
your brain can’t compute it.

but any question was of course we love you - you are being ridiculous

well 3 years ago we moved round the corner within 8 weeks he stopped talking to me and his favourite children - in fact he hadn’t said a word or texted them in years - their crime - they can’t be brought, they don’t jump when he tells them too and they don’t see him as a loving and kind grandfather at all - they see him and a horrid unkind man. He thought he had them and they turned around and said nope.

you show her love and consistency. I told mine about court in a child friendly way - I kept the paperwork and I will show them if and when they ask to see it. He (ex) demanded ‘I love you’ in a stupid voice at the end of a phone call - he doesn’t know what love is and at aged 10 they began to figure it ok eldest stopped contact at 9 and if he says he loves her or something she says ‘clearly you didn’t’ as she remembers all the time he didn’t turn up for contact

EmpressSoleil · 23/09/2023 19:01

I don't love my abusive parents. Not sure I ever did. I genuinely don't think I formed an attachment to them. I didn't care when my dad died and won't when my mum dies. My younger sister though, totally different. They didn't treat her any better, arguably worse. And yet she was devasted when our dad died and tells me she'll be even more devastated when our mum dies.

Why do we feel so differently? I honestly don't know. But I feel very little. Sad news stories that have other people upset. I can logically say that's sad but I don't actually feel anything. Same if something happens to someone I know. I can feel a level of sympathy for them but it doesn't upset me.

So I think that someone's own personality or the way they have developed, can influence how they feel. I can "act" like I care but it is an act. And I think I learnt to do that from a young age.

StoatofDisarray · 23/09/2023 19:18

No, I hated him. It's something I never understood about my sister: she carried on trying to please him.

Leafypage · 23/09/2023 19:48

Children love their parents, until they are old enough to realise - they won’t be able to make any sense of the detail. Parents are their children’s world, what else do they have?

Duxelle · 24/09/2023 11:04

Leafypage · 23/09/2023 19:48

Children love their parents, until they are old enough to realise - they won’t be able to make any sense of the detail. Parents are their children’s world, what else do they have?

Completely agree.

OP posts:
StoatofDisarray · 30/09/2023 13:45

Then I grew up fast because I hated my parents by the time I was 10.

PotOfViolas · 30/09/2023 13:52

I probably loved my mum when I was little as little kids can't help it, whatever the parent is like. By 8 I was realising how nasty my mum was. I don't have any bond with her now. She repels me. I didn't go no contact but probably should have. My dad was OK but he let me down by not protecting me.

PotOfViolas · 30/09/2023 14:02

Just to add that you did the right thing splitting so your dd has the option to not be with him when she chooses.