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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Divorcing my sister

31 replies

Queenofscones · 17/09/2023 10:11

I think the time has come to cut ties with my DS. I've been awake for much of the past night worrying about it. It seems so final and so sad. She's my only sibling and my parents died a few years ago. She's the only link to my childhood and past and I feel grief-stricken to think of severing contact, but I don't think I can take much more.

Some background. I'm the oldest by two years. We had a stable upbringing together in a polite sort of family where, even when people disagreed or were upset with each other, they didn't resort to insults or name-calling or hurtful behaviour. My sister and I were never very close. I've searched time and time again for something that happened in our childhood to explain it, but I can't find anything. She has occasionally said that she hated being the little sister. There's nothing I can do about our birth order: I had no control over it. We are different personalities and I suspect she's never really liked me. I feel full of goodwill for her but she's never seemed to feel that way about me. I don't seem to have problems making friends and feeling close to other women and I feel gutted that I can't be friends with my sister.

She's had a nice life viewed from the outside, she's been married, has children and a nice home and steady job, but she doesn't seem like a happy person. She doesn't seem to want to talk about it so we don't go there. We tried to work together to support our elderly parents but whatever I did or suggested was never enough or wrong, often for reasons I could have had no knowledge of without her telling me. We struggled through and made the end of their lives as easy as possible, but I think the experience caused more damage.

That was a few years ago and now we're both getting older and any hopes I had that we would mellow and be able to get over whatever it is between us have faded. She and her husband visited us last summer and there was an uncomfortable atmosphere. I tried to be relaxed and welcoming but my partner observed how angry she was with me: how the volume of her voice went up and she'd jab her finger at me over minor things. He said to me that she was behaving like someone looking for a fight. The more I danced around her, the worse it got. Her husband is a very quiet man who just eats and drinks and smiles politely and seems to me not to want to be involved. I don't blame him.

For the past year we haven't seen each other, partly because I feel quite nervous about being around her. We've talked on the phone every few weeks and I've tried very hard to do a lot of listening and limit my talking, because anything I say seems to wind her up. Earlier this year she started putting the phone down on me if I said anything she didn't agree with, so I resorted to email to stay in touch. But now she's become abusive even on email.

In recent weeks there has been an issue with an elderly family friend who lives quite close to my sister but a long way from me. My sister has stepped in to help. I've tried to support from 300 miles away but she has become steadily more resentful and abusive to me. Everything I say or do, no matter how carefully I phrase it, causes offence. I have almost daily emails telling me that I'm stupid, useless, warped (that was a weird one), cold, disapproving, delusional, out-of-touch, living in a dream world, fat, a millstone around her neck... In some ways it feels like a toddler throwing insults at me randomly, with the intention of causing hurt. I know that when people behave like this it's sometimes because they're hurting, but I can't even ask if she's okay: when I've said I was concerned for her and was she all right she wrote back scathingly, telling me she didn't want my fake concern.

Over the years I've asked on several occasions if she'd like to see if talking to a third party (a family therapist probably) would help us understand each other better. She was furious with me for that. I've also asked her outright what's going on. She's says it's the fact that I can't see what the problem is that's the problem. She's clearly increasingly angry with me and I still, after years of reflection, have no idea what it's about. I sometimes wonder if it's the fact that I exist that's the issue — in which case cutting contact may be the best thing for us both. I still, even knowing this, feel devastated.

OP posts:
FriedasCarLoad · 17/09/2023 10:13

I'm so sorry, how heart breaking for you. Reducing contact sounds wise.

AtrociousCircumstance · 17/09/2023 10:16

She is abusive towards you OP. You don’t deserve her unresolved anger. I don’t blame you for going NC.

Azandme · 17/09/2023 10:17

Why have you tiptoed around her? She needs telling, in no uncertain terms, to fuck off with her attitude and abuse.

People will treat you the way you LET them - so stop letting her.

Queenofscones · 17/09/2023 10:22

Thanks for the responses. I guess, being her big sister who has always felt affection and a sort of protectiveness towards her, it feels like a terrible failure to cut ties. I'm not someone who gives up easily and I'm also open to discovering what it is about me, or the family, that has played a part in how things have ended up.

OP posts:
user1492757084 · 17/09/2023 10:29

You are an adult. Don't accept the abuse.
You could decide to not visit, not chat, not message.
Send her a yearly birthday card and Christmas cheers.

Do you have to regularly have anything to do with her?
Are you joint executors for example?
If there is no reason to communicate, then just get busy with the other loving people in your life.

historyrepeatz · 17/09/2023 10:31

Maybe she doesn't know what it is which is why she gets more frustrated and angry. Maybe she wants the blowup so she can say it's you. A lot of people feel alone when someone is like this towards them as it's not visible to anyone else. Your DH felt it. She has a problem and won't or can't say what it is. Don't spend the rest of your life walking on eggshells. You don't need to make a grand announcement. You could just stop calling and emailing but send the birthday cards and Christmas cards. If she asks to come over be straight and say no the atmosphere was awful last time.

Prettypaisleyslippers · 17/09/2023 10:34

I would say that you are not going to respond to emails that are abusive or name calling. Then don’t reply to her emails, if you get a nice email reply to that. Any name calling don’t respond.

i would create a folder for her emails to go into, then you can look at them when it suits you. I don’t email my sister anyone, I cut that line of communication off due to similar reasons.

NoodleNuts · 17/09/2023 10:59

I don't really understand why you are trying to force a relationship with someone who clearly doesn't want one. Siblings don't have to get along and be super close and in many cases, never are.

You said yourself that you and your sister have never been close, have different personalities and that you suspect she doesn't like you. So why are you so hellbent on trying to fix things between you? It's never going to happen so you need to find a way to accept that and move on with your life.

Queenofscones · 17/09/2023 11:21

@NoodleNuts I've on several occasions over 30+ years let things drop to see what happens, on the basis that perhaps she'd be happier if she didn't hear from me. She's always chosen to contact me after a month or two and sometimes berated me for not being in touch sooner. She didn't have to get involved in helping out the family friend who has recently been struggling: she chose to throw herself into helping them out and then asked for my support. So despite the fact that she appears to hate me she doesn't appear to want to let me go.

OP posts:
littlesisstruggles · 17/09/2023 11:28

Totally feel your pain here.

My DS blew up at me over a perceived difference of opinion. Relationship hasn't really recovered. I think about her every day but have come to the conclusion that I was on the receiving end of years of abuse, tho I'd not really recognised it. Also never good enough, was always having little things picked up on and lots of criticism. I hadn't realised how scared I was to rock the boat.

Didn't really mind but the last blow up was in front of people and I felt exceptionally humiliated. Took months to recover and my MH was shot for a while.

Breaking up with a sister is very difficult as it's the longest relationship of your like.

I'd like to tell her it always felt like I was walking on eggshells but don't want to upset her further. Why I worry about this so much, I don't know.

Much love, it's really hard.

Jackydaytona · 17/09/2023 11:31

Omg
Why?
Why are you persevering with this abuser?
I'm nc with my younger sister so I get it but at some point you need to protect yourself
My sisters life hasn't turned out how she wanted - maybe that's your sisters issue too?
Lives can look great from the outside, but the truth isn't always so cut and dry
That doesn't excuse her behaviour though
You are losing nothing but aggro and abuse
Block and delete

Jackydaytona · 17/09/2023 11:32

NoodleNuts · 17/09/2023 10:59

I don't really understand why you are trying to force a relationship with someone who clearly doesn't want one. Siblings don't have to get along and be super close and in many cases, never are.

You said yourself that you and your sister have never been close, have different personalities and that you suspect she doesn't like you. So why are you so hellbent on trying to fix things between you? It's never going to happen so you need to find a way to accept that and move on with your life.

This ^

Squiblet · 17/09/2023 11:34

Queenofscones · 17/09/2023 11:21

@NoodleNuts I've on several occasions over 30+ years let things drop to see what happens, on the basis that perhaps she'd be happier if she didn't hear from me. She's always chosen to contact me after a month or two and sometimes berated me for not being in touch sooner. She didn't have to get involved in helping out the family friend who has recently been struggling: she chose to throw herself into helping them out and then asked for my support. So despite the fact that she appears to hate me she doesn't appear to want to let me go.

She must be getting some kind of twisted satisfaction out of using you as a punching bag - "putting you in your place". She needs to put you down to build herself up.

Short of her signing up for extensive therapy, that probably won't change. You need to show her that you're not going to help her fulfill this weird need of hers.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 17/09/2023 11:36

It sounds as if she resents you ( and possibly envies you?). She wants your approval, but she is angry that she wants it…..

Whatever is wrong, OP , it doesn’t sound as if you can fix it. I agree, I would just reduce contact without cutting it off and then ‘grey rock’ if/ when you do meet.

Cleotolstoy · 17/09/2023 11:39

It sounds like you've been very patient and are just getting abuse. You wouldn't ever ever expect her to tolerate this from you and would totally understand there being more boundaries. I would let her know your husband is being copied in on emails and see if she backs off with the abuse. If she blows up then just send short emails to say you hope she's okay every now and again and get your husband to proof read messages and tell you if there's anything to know.be kind to yourself, no one who loves you wants you to be churned up about this. Be at peace with yourself.

Queenofscones · 17/09/2023 11:45

littlesisstruggles · 17/09/2023 11:28

Totally feel your pain here.

My DS blew up at me over a perceived difference of opinion. Relationship hasn't really recovered. I think about her every day but have come to the conclusion that I was on the receiving end of years of abuse, tho I'd not really recognised it. Also never good enough, was always having little things picked up on and lots of criticism. I hadn't realised how scared I was to rock the boat.

Didn't really mind but the last blow up was in front of people and I felt exceptionally humiliated. Took months to recover and my MH was shot for a while.

Breaking up with a sister is very difficult as it's the longest relationship of your like.

I'd like to tell her it always felt like I was walking on eggshells but don't want to upset her further. Why I worry about this so much, I don't know.

Much love, it's really hard.

Edited

I'm sorry to hear that you've been through something similar. I'm on eggshells all the time around my sister too. I think it's very easy for people to say walk away, but as you say, this is the longest relationship of our lives and I've been prepared to experiment with it and try to understand where her rage is coming from. I don't give up on anyone easily, let alone her.

I also wonder whether being an older sister has something to do with it. I can remember holding her hand when we went to school and had to cross a busy road each day: being so proud of her winning races on sports day: being silly together when we were bored at grown-up events: driving her to and from college with all her gear and trying to help her settle in. Breaks my heart to feel I can't make whatever is tormenting her better, because something's not right.

OP posts:
Spendysis · 17/09/2023 11:56

Totally sympathise with you I haven’t spoken to my dsis or dm for about 2 months they aren’t blocked I just haven’t contacted them and they haven’t contacted me after we had a family meeting to discuss dsi stealing money from dm bank account dm said she was fine with it so I’ve left them to it dsis has alway been financially reckless is upto her eyes in debt. like others I also think her life didn’t turn out how she wanted it to never married no children very overweight which has caused health problems so the holidays new car’s constant spending is trying to prove she happy and successful

what makes it so difficult for me is we have lost 4 people suddenly in the last 6 months so I know life is precious and can be cut short at anytime

Isheabastard · 17/09/2023 11:59

I had a poor relationship with my older sister. My mum said she was jealous of me.

I couldn’t think why as we had the same upbringing.

But I just had my life together better than her. I got into a high school when she’d got into a secondary modern. I took and passed my GCSEs and went on to college. She left at 16 and worked in a shop. I managed to save my pocket money to buy clothes. Ditto when I had part time jobs. She was always skint.

So could it be something as simple as that? I’m very risk adverse and good at deferred gratification, so my life then probably seemed to her to be smooth sailing. She has also put the phone down on me when I said something she didn’t like.

jlpth · 17/09/2023 12:00

You don’t need to even do anything. Just don’t contact her, ignore any contact from her (I would block her to prevent it though).

You sound like you have tried over a sustained period - her whole life really. She sounds like a bitter, game playing mean girl.

Cut her off and be free. But remember you don’t even need to tell her. Just go no contact this very day and you will be liberated.

EbonyRaven · 17/09/2023 12:03

Blimey. Confused I would be going NC at this point. It's not LAW to stay in contact with relatives @Queenofscones I felt this way up to around my mid to late 30s. Made so much effort with a number of useless fucking articles in my wider, extended family (cousins, aunts, uncles,) right up to the late noughties. I got absolutely fuck-all back. I did all the visiting, bought gifts for their kids (and them,) and always initiated contact. Nothing ever came from their end.

I got criticism and scorn poured on me from a few, got the piss taken out of me sometimes, and was always put down and told to shusshhh, as I was the youngest of 6 cousins. Even in my 30s, with 2 kids and a home and a successful career, I was still classed as silly little EbonyRaven who is still a child. They just wanted me to be quiet! I was the timid one in a family of mostly gobshites.

Once my parents passed, I stopped being arsed, and (shocker!) they didn't bother with me. And this group included my brother, and SIL, and 2 nephews. I stopped contact with them, and waited to see if they would contact me (this was 2009.) I am still waiting. I moved away from the area in 2011, (around 40 miles north,) and I never see them. I still have the same mobile phone number that I had back then though, (when we last had contact,) and DH still works at the same place - so they could contact if they want to. They never bothered.

I only have contact now with my own DC, their spouses, and (their spouses families,) DH's sister and BIL, and their 3 kids. (Ours have no kids yet.) And I have contact with 2 great aunts who live 10 miles north of me, and the son of one of them - and his wife and daughter - (the other great aunt remained child-free.) DH parents died over 20 years ago. Both sets of our grandparents died last century.

Suits me down to the ground having no contact with these people. Looking back, my wider extended family, including my brother and SIL brought nothing to my life really. And neither did my 5 cousins, and aunts and uncles. They weren't arsed with me 95% of the time. I rarely even got a Christmas card or birthday card, DH NEVER got one, and my kids rarely did. Even though I bought for all of them.

After stopping contact and having them out of my life now, I realise I never needed them in the first place. It was my mother who always insisted I should keep up the contact as they are 'too busy' to do it - like I wasn't, with 2 kids, a home to run, and a job!

I blocked them on facebook - and my phone around 2015, as I want nothing to do with them any more. It's been such a relief having them out of my life. No more put-downs or criticism or people trying to borrow money and various items off me (that I never got back!)

tl;dr block your sister on everything @Queenofscones you don't have to keep in contact - just because you share DNA. As has been said, stop trying to force something that isn't there, and doesn't exist. You will drive yourself crazy!

GiveYourHeadAWobble · 17/09/2023 12:10

I really sympathise as I've been through something really similar. It's hard, even several years later, although at least I don't have to put up with the abuse any more.
I did need counselling to begin to come to terms with it though. I recommend doing that if you're able.
I still find myself triggered by people who have really good relationships with siblings and who can't understand why I had to do what I had to do. It was to protect my sanity and it was the absolute last resort.
Good luck and make sure you take a lot of care of yourself in those weeks and months following.

Notquitegrownup2 · 17/09/2023 12:27

Sounds incredibly difficult, and as if she needs someone to blame when things are tough. Very low contact required. Xmas and birthday cards is enough. Give yourself a break.

If she contacts you in a pleasant way, a short simple response is fine:

Good to hear from you. Glad to hear X. Sounds lovely, or Sorry to hear about Y. Tell me what you need.

Put the ball in her court, to spell out what's on her mind. If she is abusive, don't reply. If she pushes for a reply you can ignore or reflect back: You sound very angry with me. Best for us to leave it.

HTH

Queenofscones · 17/09/2023 12:32

I still find myself triggered by people who have really good relationships with siblings and who can't understand why I had to do what I had to do.

This... Yes, one of the hardest elements of all this is that my DP has a lovely family. They have their complications and not everyone gets along brilliantly, but they clearly love and appreciate each other and there's none of this hitting out with the intention to hurt. They've accepted me with open arms and my SILs feel more like sisters to me than my own sister does. It sometimes hits me very hard, walking into their homes and being greeted warmly and in a way that my DS never has.

My mum was very loving and managed to maintain friendly and supportive relationships with her siblings and the wider family, so it feels like a personal failure for me that I haven't been able to make things work with DS.

I have just called an old, old friend on her birthday and mentioned that DS and I were going through a terrible time (didn't go into details) and she reminded me that when we were in our late teens and 20s my DS always used to talk about having an inferiority complex — a surprise because she seemed successful and confident and was much better looking that either me or my friend. Maybe it's a clue. Off for a pub lunch now.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 17/09/2023 12:38

She's says it's the fact that I can't see what the problem is that's the problem

I think that if you're not able to simply stop contact, due to feeling a responsibility for the relationship, you could offer her the responsibility, by asking her what she suggests, given that you won't put up with any further insults. Leave it up to her, regarding how the relationship goes, but with the stipulation that if she utters one insult, you will walk away.

You're right, it's a failure if the relationship can't be rescued, but it's not you failure. Put the responsibility where it should be: with the abuser. Otherwise you are victim-blaming yourself. So, she's being horrible to you, and so are you.

OuiRagamuffin · 17/09/2023 12:40

It does sound difficult and painful, but it doesn't sound like she's going to change.

Having NO contact with my parents, I sometimes wish now I'd had the strength to not NEED them to see my perspective (which was that my perspective was not an act of aggression, that honest reciprocal communication is normal, that trying to communicate honestly shouldn't be shut right down and met with contempt, silence and the cold shoulder.

If I'd known 4 years ago that they cannot be more honest with me than they are with themselves, I think I would have just gone ROBOT on them. Weather is terrible for this time of year. Garden looks good. The bread is nice.

But I tried to connect on a slightly more authentic level. And it just made things worse. It made them angry. So now, not only do I not have a family that I can communicate with, but I have a family that view me as an aggressive villain.

I should have just wound it all down. Cards twice a year. Weather is nice. How's the dog.

I did have to wind things down though because I was over there ever weekend and they were projecting all of their distorted narratives on to me, so had to reduce contact, but there was never any chance that they were going to SEE me as a person with a right to their own perspective.

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