Why is he lying to me?

[WhereDoesItGoFromHere]

I've been in a relationship for 2 years. On a day to day basis, it's perfect. He's kind, considerate, and thoughtful. He has lots of friends, people like him, his family is lovely. He is respectful of me and my feelings, he listens, he's empathetic, he pulls his weight emotionally, practically and financially in the relationship.

Everything concrete that I can see and experience on a daily basis is perfect.

But there are little things. Little things that appear to be lies. Nothing major, nothing 'real' I can really hold up and say what about this?

That are just making me feel uneasy. He denies that he's lied. Never called me paranoid - just maintains an innocence that just doesn't sit right.

I've been in crap relationships before and while they weren't crap 100% of the time, I've never felt this disparity before either. Where he seems to genuinely love, care for and respect me but has no problem with destabilising 'little lies'.

I am more 'aware' of what he does now because there have been a number of these 'little lies'. I don't like the feeling of being hyper vigilant. It's not me. I'm not a paranoid or suspicious person.

Do you see how this is undermining you? You're changing - becoming weaker, less sure-footed, doubting your own perceptions.

Once our divorce was filed, XH2 and I had a sort of review meeting. "I wasn't insecure when I met you", I said.
"I know," he said, "I'm sorry."

The thing is, it doesn't matter why they do it. It feels extremely important to understand while you're in it - but that "why" is probably a multi-layered, complicated thing going right back to early childhood which don't even understand themselves. What matters is that it's happening.

It's up to you whether you feel the good parts about living in this relationship outweigh the damage it's doing to your psyche.

That’s just MN sadly.
Equality is worth shouting about when it comes to jobs etc, but in day to day life apparently it’s fine to lie to men but not the other way around 😅

I remember one thread where a poster described all men as ‘dogs with a bone’ 🙄

That niggling feeling you describe, OP? That's your gut instinct talking. I'd trust it.

@Deathbyfluffy
I saved a thread (300 ish posts). A woman confessed to a one night stand and didn't know whether to tell her husband. 75% of posters told her to keep quiet. I wasn't the poster doing the Maths!
None of the 'lies' sound very bad to me though. Always remember you are free to leave a relationship any time.

I missed that thread.

I did read one a couple of days ago though with posters advising a man to keep quiet about infidelity from several years ago.

The thing is the lies are or do seem not too bad. But it makes him untrustworthy.

Why lie about insignificant stuff? If he lies about that, how easy will it be for him to lie about big stuff? Why is he lying?

He says that one of the things he loves about me is that he can be himself. If he goes to McDonalds when he's already eaten, who cares? If he goes to the pub for a pint after work, who cares? I'm not critical of him. I don't give him reason to lie about doing perfectly normal things. And he doesn't.

But then there are all these little lies, which makes ask why. Who is he smiling a at messages from? Why did he lie about reading my message? It's those things. There are obviously things he doesn't want me to know he is doing.

In my experience, the little lies build up your self doubt and acceptance that "your perception of what happened is wrong" that when he lies about something bigger, you'll accept it too.

I don't tolerate any forms of lie that I find out about now. I've made it very clear to new partners that if they don't want to do something, or time simply got away from them, then admit it and tell me. I don't necessarily have a problem with it. Even if it's "I don't want to go out socialising today cause I'm tired". That's fine, I can work with that and accept it.

But a decade of little and not so little lies from an ex made me severely intolerant to any lying now. It breaks trust, and for me trust is possibly the most important part of a successful relationship.

But then there are all these little lies, which makes ask why.

Because it gives him a feeling of power and control. A feeling of getting one over on you. And this is the most important thing I think, which is that he’s communicating to you that you are not having what you want, which is an honest trustworthy partner. And he’s being really open about that. He wants you to know that he is a liar.

Eventually he will develop contempt for you as he observes you accepting his lies and his gaslighting is proof of this. Before any big betrayal comes hundreds and hundreds of micro betrayals and lies.

He is emotionally abusive. Lying and gaslighting is emotionally abusive. Being passive aggressive is emotionally abusive also. And that’s what he was doing when he pretended he hadn't seen your message.

I imagine he really enjoys having those conversations about his lies and really enjoys gaslighting you.

Underneath the surface there is something really horrible lurking. I would get rid of him before he escalates his abusive behaviour.

I think that this is who he is. Asking 'Why?' isn't going to get you anywhere, and you could torture yourself with the feeling that if only you could understand his reasons, you'd be ok with it. But that puts the onus on you. It makes the fault yours. You are the one who doesn't understand. You are the one who can't make sense of it.

The top and bottom of it is that you have a liar for a boyfriend, and you don't want a liar for a boyfriend. Tell him once what you've told us: You know he's doing it, you have examples, and if he can't explain/be honest until your feelings settle, he can't be your boyfriend anymore. That give him the responsibility for choosing whether the relationship ends or not. It gives him the choice of whether to be the partner you want, or not. He is doing something that makes you unhappy; it's up to him to sort it out. This isn't about you failing to grasp something, it's about you not standing for something you find morally unacceptable.

He is emotionally abusive

This is a bit much. Not every non-ideal behaviour is abuse.

I imagine he really enjoys having those conversations about his lies and really enjoys gaslighting you

Massive and unfounded assumption here, OP. He's quite possibly just a bit weak and insecure. Try not to get carried away by these outlandish sorts of wild accusation.

I read that thread and in that case I felt the woman was likely to repeat her behaviour.
It was almost orchestrated as she knew they wouldn’t meet up again.
In her case the lying probably will catch up with her.

His response to being caught out is quite telling though.... asking what you thought he was doing in that 20 mins.... I would find that odd.

Who cares besides you and your mates? Why not start your own thread to have a little natter amongst yourselves about it?

I had something similar with my wife where was on laptop a lot, which was fine as often did. However, this felt different and it was more obsession and a lot of typing. It went on for a while and it got to the point I was talking to her sat beside and wasn't hearing anything, same with our children and they got upset.

I just said who are you talking to? No one, in an innocent voice and then made a point of responding to the children and me, then turned it off. Came across weird like just a feeling and seemed to be quite chipper.

Few days later asked me to sort something out on laptop while out, left the chat open by mistake. Had been talking to someone else and flirting with one another going over a month. Talking wasn't the problem, the lie was and also the flirting...while I was there and so were the children.

I moved past that at the time but there were lots of problems for years, and after this event, she was abusive, though, I hoped it would get better and I didn't really understand how abuse worked. She's now destroying me, the entire relationship was a lie from when we met. That was from someone who could not stand lies even white lies, turned out to be a compulsive liar and is continuing to do so.

To be honest, neither of those two lies seem particularly bad.

I might tell either of those, I don't particularly feel that DP is owed the information of what I'm doing on my phone, so if I don't want to explain, then I might say I'm playing a game (in truth I probably tell her I'm on Reddit rather that Mumsnet)

I also quite often read a message, forget to reply and then say I've just seen it. It's a polite fiction that hide the fact that he briefly forgot to respond.

I don't think either of you are particularly in the wrong, he doesn't feel that every single action deserves the complete honest truth, and you do. They're just different world views, and probably mean that you're not particularly well suited to each other.

Telling small inconsequential lies is usually a sign of low self esteem and deep seated shame. He has done it so much that it has become a skill as he wants to appear different/better in the eyes of others.

Big red flag, IMO

I had a close friend that was a compulsive liar. She would like about ridiculous things, telling lies that were not helpful to her in any way. It was her way of feeling powerful.

He could just enjoy having secrets from you. Whatever the case, I could not live with the lying.

I think I'd tell him that if I caught him out in one more lie, whether trivial or huge, I was ending it. And that I'd support him in getting counselling to try to get to the root of this compulsion. But that he had to accept and put his hand up to doing it, and agree that this was not to happen any more in the relationship.

And then bite the bullet if he didn't do what was necessary and leave. No way am I staying in a relationship with inexplicable falsehoods. Life is hard enough already

These lies may be early cheater lies. The messaging, taking time to change plans with someone else (WhatsApp) but denying it, even the being great in all other aspects (no normal imperfect behaviour, no silly arguments, etc).

The man I was dating for the last six months lied like this. No arguments, so helpful, lavish presents, love bombing, but these glitches every so often where the things he said just didn’t add up.

then I found out he wasn’t single but separated, but still much married … and actively reconciled, if they ever even split).

Lies at first didn’t make sense, and easily fell apart- like saying he was playing football with “Dan” only for Dan to become “Mike” in a recollection three weeks later. or “let’s have a luxury weekend break rather than a week’s summer holiday ” (why? No!) or “how about we meet early and just bunk off work, I’m so hungry”- when I had big meetings and couldn’t understand why he couldn’t grab a snack and then meet me at 6 as planned.

In reality he

• hadn’t gone to football, he’d had a date night.
• double booked our holiday with one with his wife, and was trying to see me a weekend she was away, instead.
• had forgotten he was having dinner with his wife and couldn’t fit us both in on his schedule so thought he’d try to have both an early and late dinner.

I have six months of lies like that to unpick once it all came out.

want to know a good test?

accuse him of something specific that you know he hasn’t done.

the outrage then should, if he is lying the rest of the time, look very different to the outrage he displays over a lie. Liars are unaware of their own natural reactions and can’t always fake the right tone. That should give you a good hint.

The bottom line is that he is a self absorbed man with little care for anyone other than himself.

He is more occupied with his interests or obsessions, that could be work, gaming, gambling, sex, ego stoking, basically he's not responsive to your needs and never will be.

You on the otherhand are very aware of him.

He has to lie to promote the idea that he is a caring thoughtful man, unless it's even more sinister and he is acting intentionally to undermine you.

Who knows what the reasons are but I don't think he will make you happy.

How can anyone trust someone who constantly lies? Especially if the little pointless lies just are a gateway for increasingly bigger relationship destroying lies.. 🌹

I can't believe your so passive about the " I'm playing a game" when you know he wasn't.
Isn't your next question to him "I can clearly see you are not playing a game so what is it you're doing that you found the need to lie?"

Sounds like he messages other girls imo

You're on edge and paranoid because he's made you that way. Wow what a great living boyfriend...not.

Ditch him

Well, exactly.
There is no trust though. So there's no relationship

This, exactly! If he was doing something innocent, there would be no reason to lie!

I would keep watching @WhereDoesItGoFromHere , and being far more suspicious. Your spidey senses are tingling for a reason!

I would just call him out every time, with a sarcastic "really?" and then a slight laugh. Then I'd ignore him, as if he was a silly teenager.

But who can be bothered to live like that?