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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Moving overseas with newborn. Father is in London.

64 replies

eveinlondon90 · 07/09/2023 21:33

Hi everyone,

I'll try keep it as short as possible. I got pregnant after daring someone for 3 months. The pill and morning after pill weren't enough to prevent pregnancy and so my angel boy is now here.

The father had become very depressed during my pregnancy and became more and more emotionally and verbally abusive. He always had anger issues but they went extreme. I didn't see him at all the last 2 months of my pregnancy and barely heard from him. He didn't care.

He says he cares for his son, yet He has also become verbally very agressive whilst me holding his newborn son. Something I do NOT want my baby to grow up with/around.

ATM theres no contact between father and baby because it became unsafe and abusive.
I hope in the future they can have a relationship though.

Now, the next issue. He has also let us down financially and never helped with rent for the new place we got together to raise the baby in. I've paid the deposit, 6 months upfront and another 3 months but the landlord now wants to evict because I cannot pay another 6 upfront because the father never financially helped. So I'm in a very sticky situation housing wise.

So that leaves me with hard choices. One choice being moving back home to Holland (from London). There I'd be guaranteed a home, I'd have my family, my friends and their kids, a safe environment, good care systems and schools etc. Plus I would be able to brearhe again and find my happiness back. I wouldnt have to rush back into work and leave my 3 month old at nursery.
So theres a lot of plus points. Except one... which is obviously moving my son away from the father.... I'd be happy to facilitate travel Cost etc.
But what do I do? Stay here? Struggle, be lonely, have min support, end up in baby and mum unit etc etc. Or go back home and have everything I need to be a good mum.

OP posts:

Original poster

eveinlondon90 · 08/09/2023 04:58

Hi, yes my friends here can help me pack everything etc. And my parents and friends back home wouldhelp move everything over from London to Holland

OP posts:

Coyoacan · 08/09/2023 05:10

Make sure you have the necessary information for your son to be able to look for his father when he is an adult and then leave.

The father of my dgd had anger issues and she hasn't seen him since was four when he attacked her mother in front of her and then blamed the child. Your child will not benefit from that type of experience

Loverofoxbowlakes · 08/09/2023 06:35

Erm, CMS?

The baby is only 2 weeks old - he's not legally required to contribute financially until birth. If he's in work he should be paying child maintenance.

You can't just up and leave op, despite all the reasons you mention - finance isn't a reason at this point. Your baby has the right to a relationship with his father, even if he has been verbally abusive to you.

If you do leave, the dad could make it VERY difficult for you to maintain that relationship - YOU could be liable for all contact arrangements and costs for example - how do YOU fancy flying back to London every other weekend with your son for the next 18 years?

I say this as someone who relocated 150 miles away from ex (within England), having documented evidence of abuse to both me and dc, I had to get permission from court to relocate.

Weatherwax13 · 08/09/2023 06:49

Go home. Leaving his name off the birth certificate is wise. And just go. Do not tell him beforehand. (Or anyone who knows him).
You'll provoke him and risk your safety.
Plus the longer you're in the Netherlands before he knows about it, the easier it will be to prove your child is habitually resident there.
He'll have to engage a solicitor and go to Court citing the Hague Convention with all the costs entailed if he wants you to come back. Then pay maintenance . I highly doubt he's going to do that.
An abusive father is far worse than having no father in the picture. Trust me on this.

PostOpOp · 08/09/2023 07:05

Definitely seek legal advice. It's too serious not to. I personally think you should go back, but that doesn't matter.

You need to be sure he can't change his mind and claim you've kidnapped his baby - and don't discount his family encouraging him to do that.

I know of someone - in the Netherlands - who lost custody of her children, because she took them abroad to her home country to live. Now she is in NL, they live with the dad and she can only see them via a contact centre. IT'S NOT WOTH THE RISK!

Original poster

eveinlondon90 · 08/09/2023 07:26

@Loverofoxbowlakes I'm not looking for CMS or anything financial. I don't care at all about that part of things. I can provide for my child without his financial help.

Ofcourse my son Has a right to relationship with his dad. IF that relationship is safe and healthy and beneficial for my son. Which it would not be atm.

having said that. I wouldn't mind be liable for all cost and effort to maintain contact between them if I'd have to. I'd be more than happy too.

OP posts:

wp65 · 08/09/2023 07:29

It's a complete no-brainer, OP. Go home. You don't want your son around an abusive man anyway.

Somethink · 08/09/2023 07:45

it's your decision about if he goes on the birth certificate, so don't put him on (& anyway he would need to go to the appointment with you to get on it). You can then do whatever you like. He can then apply later for parental responsibility if he wants to, and this would go to court. if you're happy to facilitate contact later if needed/wanted then there's no downside to moving.

www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/apply-for-parental-responsibility

BackT · 08/09/2023 08:30

Go. I didn't. I wish I had!

TheDogthatDug · 08/09/2023 08:56

Don't put him on the BC. Make plans to move without saying anything to him or his family and just go. From the sounds of it he is unlikely to go down the legal route or want to have anything to do with your baby. You are not depriving your baby of a father so don't worry about that.

WannabeMum22 · 08/09/2023 09:06

Leave now, like within the next 2 weeks is possible before he petitions anything. As he’s not currently on the birth certificate he has no legal standing and you are free to move. You’re not moving to Australia it’s Holland and easily accessible for him if he’s willing to make the effort. He’s free to petition to be on the birth certificate but he won’t be able to prevent your move. Get that baby a passport and go home to your support system asap. This isn’t out of spite it’s about meeting your child’s basic needs.

StillWantingADog · 08/09/2023 09:12

get the BC done asap (without his name on it) and then off you go.

AlltheFs · 08/09/2023 09:17

I’d go asap, tell him you have gone to stay with family for support after the birth. You don’t have to tell him you aren’t coming back.

Then wait and see if he tries to get PR via the court.

W0tnow · 08/09/2023 10:50

Go home. It’s a no brainier. I wouldn’t be facilitating anything. Of course he can visit his child if he wants. But at his own expense.

suburbophobe · 08/09/2023 12:47

An abusive father is far worse than having no father in the picture. Trust me on this.

I agree with this. My son's dad left when he was 6 months old.

He's now a well-adjusted adult, incidentally also in The Netherlands.....

Naunet · 08/09/2023 19:06

Go OP, women sacrifice too much for unworthy men and I don’t believe him and his abusive family will contribute anything positive to either of your lives.

SisterMichaelsHabit · 08/09/2023 19:11

As for the birth certificate. He is not going to be on it.
Excellent. Then you will be free (hopefully). I really hope it all works out for you!

DelphiniumBlue · 08/09/2023 19:27

I can't see that you actually have any options - if you are about to be evicted and can't afford to rent by yourself in London, your only alternative is to go home to Holland.
Like everyone else is saying, don't put Ex on the birth certificate, and go home as soon as you can, get your residency in Holland established as the norm.
Don't offer to pay for Ex to visit, he can pay himself - you are taking on the responsibility of the child, and it looks unlikely that he will willingly contribute. He's let you both down big time already, don't stay here on his account. Any man who chooses not to support his pregnant partner, who leaves his partner and baby potentially homeless, and worse still is aggressive and abusive, is not someone you can either rely or want to be involved with in any way. Your baby is only 2 weeks old yet he's been aggressive to you whilst you are holding the baby?
I'd get out as quick as possible. He doesn't sound like he'll put himself out for the baby, and he comes from a family of abusive people. You've got a lot to lose and nothing to gain by staying here. Go home, where your family will surround you and the baby with love.

Ossoduro2 · 08/09/2023 19:33

I would move asap. If baby is only 2 weeks old he has only lived in the U.K. for 2 weeks, your child hasn’t built a life here yet. When you go to Holland, it will take a while for the father to work it out and argue for you to return. By then the baby’s habitual residence will be Holland and it will be harder for the father to try and convince a court that the child should give up everything he knows and holds familiar and move to the U.K.

Temporaryname158 · 08/09/2023 23:10

In light of your update that he won’t be on the birth certificate I would do the following

get a 1 days passport appointment to get the baby a passport.

move immediately. Pack up and be gone.

do not tell him where you have gone. Have no contact at all.

quickly establish a ‘life’ there for your child. Get them a Dutch passport also asap. Join baby groups, a church, volunteer with baby at something (community cafe, baby group, nappy library) anything at all. So if he should pop up demanding that you move back that you have not only family but also connections and the baby’s life is entwined in the community you are based in. This will make it harder for him to prove the baby’s life is in the UK.

keep some money back for legal fees should you need them.

do not offer to pay to facilitate visits. If he wants to play the father figure, he will need to make the effort and pay to travel, especially when the baby is so small. No court would make the baby travel to the UK. This alone as well as having to pay CMS is likely to put him off by the sounds of it.

go and get out of here as soon as you can and don’t tell him where you are going.

babysharkdoodoodedoodedoo · 09/09/2023 04:39

I’d move and not let him know specifically where to. Does he know where in Holland your family are? Don’t give him too much information.

AuntieEsther · 09/09/2023 05:03

It's beyond me that any woman would be giving this man such a level of consideration in her plans. Leave him to it, he's not a present or safe father and he doesn't parent in any meaningful way. Just go and make a life for you and your son.

Sothisiit · 09/09/2023 09:02

I don’t think that a father that provides no financial or emotional support to either of you can call the shots on your future.
He's either committed to his son or not.
Obviously this can change in the future if his input changes.
At the moment I'd do what's best for you and facilitate visits if he desires.

AgentJohnson · 09/09/2023 09:11

Moving back to the Netherlands maybe one of your more sensible decisions. You knew the guy for 12 weeks prior to getting pregnant, he was a stranger. I get the pull of creating a nuclear family but there were no foundations for that pipe dream. Go home and get on with your life, once settled e-mail him with your contact possibilities and then leave it up to him. Him not having contact with his child has absolutely nothing to do with you and everything to do with him.

He could have applied for PR at anytime and hasn’t and that together with having no relationship with his child, would be hard pressed to convince a court to get you to return to the UK but if you’d like peace of mind, then you could seek legal advice about getting permission from the courts to remove your son from the UK.

Stop tying yourself up in knots to accommodate someone who clearly isn’t interested.

MrsMara · 09/09/2023 09:25

Leave him off the BC

Get your son a Dutch passport, NOT a British one.

Leave asap and do not communicate any of this with him.

You are vulnerable and exposed to an abusive, ineffectual manchild and his ghastly sounding family.

Forget any romantic notion of son and father building a relationship. Erase him and get away.

Move on from him and life in the UK and make a new life and future for your son in your own country surrounded by family and support.

Good luck.

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