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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Was it me or him?

31 replies

Badgerish · 06/09/2023 14:40

There is a thread here about Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. There are people in there saying abuse is never mutual and there is always an abuser and a reactive abuser.

Can someone tell me who was the abuser in my past relationship. This was ten years ago so I guess doesn't matter now but it is something I have consistently struggled with and carry guilt over. He was adamant it was me that was abusive.

We would get into a cycle where he would push and push me emotionally until I would get very distressed and start shouting and crying. It was always me that would start shouting first as I would get so upset. When I mean pushed he would stone wall me and ignore me if he was in a mood. Criticise me and put me down. Ignore any request I had to do with my emotional needs and blamed me for everything. He would go back on things he said all the time and deny he said them or claim it was my fault he'd said that when he didn't mean it. He would say he hadn't said things he had said or tell me I am over reacting about everything to the point I felt like I was going crazy half the time. My self esteem sank to nothing.

But it was always me that would start shouting first. I grew up in a shouty family. He said because I started shouting first that I was abusing him.

I would often go upstairs to cry once I had reached the point I was shouting. He would usually follow me either to tell me to shut up or to "fix things" but then he would ignore my constant requests to leave me alone. He would follow me around. If I locked myself in the bathroom he would be undoing the lock from the outside. This would go on until I would get more and more distressed and eventually throw something. At that point he would erupt and be following me around calling me horrendous names. Calling me a c**t and other vile things. He would engage in such a character assassination. I'd get more and more and more distressed. Sometimes I would talk about ending my life not to manipulate but because I had become so deregulated I felt that distressed and wanted it all to stop. Often the situation would end in him physically hurting me in some way. Hitting me. Throwing me into a wall. Throwing something heavy at me (not at the ground like I would). Then once things would calm down he would completely blame me and I had to grovel for his forgiveness. If I didn't he would character assassinate me until I did or the whole thing would start all over again. Hours like this.

He insists I was the abuser because I always started shouting first. He would just stay completely calm but horrid to me until I was so worked up I was shouting.
He said I was the abuser as when our child was very small I would really struggle and I would call him up from a night out to come home to help me because I wasn't coping (very bad PND). I knew that him going on a night out would involve him often not coming back until the next day wasted and I would get upset before he went out as I knew that would happen. He said this was me being coercive controling. He eventually stopped going out so much but insisted that was because "I didn't allow him" and would tell everyone that, but that wasn't the case.
He claims I would get violent first. He claims I hit him. I never ever hit him. I threw objects at the floor at times and screamed and shouted alot but I never once physically attacked him. He often left me with bruises though. He said that was completely my fault and he was reacting to my abuse. He said he had never had this with other women so it was clearly me. (I was his first long term relationship). He told people I was an abuser.

This person isn't in my life anymore so I guess it doesn't matter.

But was I the abuser?

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 06/09/2023 15:18

No, it sounds like he was and he blamed you

AttilaTheMeerkat · 06/09/2023 15:20

No, it was him. He is the abusive one here.

Sidslaw · 06/09/2023 15:25

sounds like you were the one that got physical first, so you.

But why were you in a situation like this? Just end it

roses321 · 06/09/2023 15:34

Are you sure that you weren't going out with my ex?

You were reactively abusive, but please look up narcissistic abuse and read about it. He was pushing you. Everything you have said is identical to what I went through and I spent a long time working out if it was me or not because I would respond the same way.

It wasn't you.

To those people who are talking about mutual abuse, there is no such thing as mutual abuse. The reason for this is that someone is always in a position of power compared to the other and abuse is based on power. Your ex was the abuser, not you.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 06/09/2023 15:34

roses321 · 06/09/2023 15:34

Are you sure that you weren't going out with my ex?

You were reactively abusive, but please look up narcissistic abuse and read about it. He was pushing you. Everything you have said is identical to what I went through and I spent a long time working out if it was me or not because I would respond the same way.

It wasn't you.

To those people who are talking about mutual abuse, there is no such thing as mutual abuse. The reason for this is that someone is always in a position of power compared to the other and abuse is based on power. Your ex was the abuser, not you.

I agreee

Badgerish · 06/09/2023 16:44

Because I had no self esteem. Honestly thought he loved me and that noone else ever would. I was financially dependent on him. I was convinced if we separated he would use his money to get full custody of our child. We moved out to a town I didn't know anyone. At the time I basically felt that if we were to separate my life would be over. There was a lot of trauma bonding looking back.

OP posts:
Badgerish · 06/09/2023 16:46

Sorry the above was meant to be in response to Sidslaw

OP posts:
Japanesebreakfast · 06/09/2023 16:57

I was also in a relationship like this.

He would follow me from room to room, pushing back against doors. If I tried to get past him he’d push me over. I even ran out the house a few times but he’d chase after me. He’d get up in my face, delivering character assassinations, calling me a disgusting little girl, insane, evil etc. Like you I would get to a point where I couldn’t take it anymore and start shouting.

One time he got up in my face and sneered ‘no wonder you were raped’ and before I knew what I was doing, I picked up a glass and smashed it on the floor. He looked shocked and acted like he was frightened of me. He said ‘you’re disturbed, you need help’.

After each incidence of this I’d start sobbing uncontrollably and he’d swoop in acting all loving and caring and telling me it was my fault and I needed to work on this and work on that and it would all be ok.

It absolutely destroyed my confidence and self-worth. I was very young. He was older and in a job which is supposed to protect people from abuse, so I didn’t realise it was abusive.

What this man did to you wasn’t your fault. He was abusing you and you understandably tried to defend yourself and stand up to him. Abusers don’t like this, so they become more abusive. They try to wear you down to the point you’ll stop standing up to them so they can have full control. I’m so sorry this happened to you and I hope you’re in a better place now.

Badgerish · 06/09/2023 17:09

I could have wrote that tbh. All the name calling. The "no wonder this happened to you", the chasing into the street, and the swooping in and acting all loving and caring but it all being my fault. Fairly often once I had begged for forgiveness enough and gone on about how awful a person I was and he'd made enough cups of tea he'd instigate sex and make it all about me to "make me feel better" because "he loved me and accepted my apology. Then he'd tell me he loved me and make a fuss for days afterwards until he was in a bad mood again and it would start all over.

Thank you for sharing.

OP posts:
Japanesebreakfast · 06/09/2023 17:13

Badgerish · 06/09/2023 17:09

I could have wrote that tbh. All the name calling. The "no wonder this happened to you", the chasing into the street, and the swooping in and acting all loving and caring but it all being my fault. Fairly often once I had begged for forgiveness enough and gone on about how awful a person I was and he'd made enough cups of tea he'd instigate sex and make it all about me to "make me feel better" because "he loved me and accepted my apology. Then he'd tell me he loved me and make a fuss for days afterwards until he was in a bad mood again and it would start all over.

Thank you for sharing.

It’s chilling isn’t it. It’s almost as if these men have some sort of manual on various methods with which to abuse women.

yellowsmileyface · 06/09/2023 17:40

This was difficult to read because my ex did exactly the same to me. I'd always be the one getting distressed and emotional and he'd be eerily calm, so for ages I really believed there was something wrong with me and it was my fault. I still feel sick to look back at all those times I grovelled for forgiveness, just so he'd at least pretend to be nice to me for a little while. Looking back he was in full control of those situations. He wouldn't even let me calm down until he was ready to stop punishing me. If I was starting to calm down, all he needed to do was say something really cruel and nasty to set me off again.

Your ex was the abusive one. Sounds like he's a "water torturer".

https://www.tayashton.com/the-water-torturer

Catsafterme · 06/09/2023 17:41

No, that's not you that's him. For a comparison I had a similar situation as to what you are describing and I feel that was abusive, along with many others I won't go into but it went like this:

There would be some sort of problem, that I never knew was a problem until I was being criticized and belittled about. I would try and calmly discuss the issue but they wouldn't look in my direction and stonewall me other than to criticize further, usually more than the issue at hand. That would then lead to them getting angry, crying and shouting, screaming while I was trying to discuss and ask them to stop shouting.

Eventually at any given moment they would get up and storm off into another room, slamming the door and on occasion screaming in rage by themselves. I wouldn't follow and leave them to calm down and go up later on to try and see if they were alright, fix the problem. They would then give me silent treatment for several hours, they wouldn't respond, look at me, I didn't exist. Until eventually at some point they would rage a bit more, blame me and then expect me to apologize and it was all brushed over until the next time.

That to me is similar to what you have described but not the same, if that makes sense. They initiated it but refused to talk or resolve it and it was a never ending cycle of that.

Badgerish · 06/09/2023 17:58

That does sound like him. Thank you for sharing the link.

The amount of times I'd be asking him what's wrong or explaining how I feel and he would consciously make a very put on scrunched up face, eye rolling facial feature. I would ask him why he's pulling that face as it makes me feel stupid and he was like "I can't control what my face does you are being unreasonable" and he'd do it over and over, make digs here there and everywhere and I wouldn't even know why until I'd ask him to please stop and then he'd just ignore me until eventually I'd shout and cry and then whole cycle would start.

OP posts:
ohboohoo · 06/09/2023 18:46

Sidslaw · 06/09/2023 15:25

sounds like you were the one that got physical first, so you.

But why were you in a situation like this? Just end it

Abuse is not just physical. Even the law accepts this. Why can't you?

AbbeyGailsParty · 06/09/2023 19:33

Definitely your ex. It’s a well practiced routine. Find the weak spot to wear you down ( my ex knew my two and would always home in one one of those) Nastier and nastier then when I snapped and shouted or swore he used that against me again. I recognise the following around the house, violating personal space.
It’s their get out clause— when we leave or boot them out we are the psychos, the violent ones, the nasty ones. It gets them sympathy from friends and family and feeds into their “poor me” mentality.
You’re well rid, as was I.

Sidslaw · 06/09/2023 20:05

ohboohoo · 06/09/2023 18:46

Abuse is not just physical. Even the law accepts this. Why can't you?

In a relationship I would always say the person who first gets physical is most in the wrong

Japanesebreakfast · 06/09/2023 20:15

Sidslaw · 06/09/2023 20:05

In a relationship I would always say the person who first gets physical is most in the wrong

She didn’t get physical with him. He hit her and threw her into walls.

Sidslaw · 06/09/2023 20:17

Japanesebreakfast · 06/09/2023 20:15

She didn’t get physical with him. He hit her and threw her into walls.

but she was physical first - really though, does it matter? She shouldn't have stayed in that relationship

Badgerish · 06/09/2023 21:19

Do you mean I was physical first because I threw objects (not at him but at the floor or wall) often first when he wouldn't leave me alone and I was really distressed? I never once hit him, never threw something actually at him or physically hurt him in any other way...

OP posts:
Badgerish · 06/09/2023 21:21

It does matter to me. If I am actually an abuser that is a big deal to me. Although it is long in the past this stuff has bothered me since and I think about it regularly even though it has been so long.

OP posts:
Catsafterme · 06/09/2023 21:59

Badgerish · 06/09/2023 21:19

Do you mean I was physical first because I threw objects (not at him but at the floor or wall) often first when he wouldn't leave me alone and I was really distressed? I never once hit him, never threw something actually at him or physically hurt him in any other way...

Edited

You're not, you were pushed to your limits and reacted. I believe from what I understand going through my own situation now that can be classed as abusive behavior but you need context.

Remember also abuse isn't just psychical, it can be psychological and emotional too. Enough of those and your head turns inside out and that's the purpose of it. As you have found out, you react, oh you're abusive. While conveniently brushing aside the psychological/emotional parts inflicted upon you and then also full on abuse.

Mine was the same, although I didn't react the entire marriage not even when I was getting hit. I reacted after separation not even in an aggressive way, I just said what I thought and guess what... I'm abusive!

Deathbyfluffy · 06/09/2023 22:08

Japanesebreakfast · 06/09/2023 17:13

It’s chilling isn’t it. It’s almost as if these men have some sort of manual on various methods with which to abuse women.

My ex definitely had a copy of the same manual.
But I’m a man, and was abused in a very similar way to the above - it’s not always men.

Japanesebreakfast · 06/09/2023 23:15

Sidslaw · 06/09/2023 20:17

but she was physical first - really though, does it matter? She shouldn't have stayed in that relationship

God almighty.

Yes, of course it matters. Throwing an object at the floor in response to extreme and prolonged psychological abuse, and having repeatedly requested space, does not justify being hit and thrown into walls.

Please don’t listen to this poster OP. They clearly know nothing about domestic abuse.

Japanesebreakfast · 06/09/2023 23:19

Deathbyfluffy · 06/09/2023 22:08

My ex definitely had a copy of the same manual.
But I’m a man, and was abused in a very similar way to the above - it’s not always men.

I didn’t say it was always men. I was responding to several female posters who have been abused by men, hence I referred to ‘these men’. I am sorry you have also been through this yourself.

yellowsmileyface · 07/09/2023 09:52

Badgerish · 06/09/2023 21:21

It does matter to me. If I am actually an abuser that is a big deal to me. Although it is long in the past this stuff has bothered me since and I think about it regularly even though it has been so long.

It's clear from what you've written that your part in this was reactive.

It's over simplifying things to say "whoever started shouting or throwing things first is the abusive one".

Instead of thinking "who started it?", it's more relevant to think about why you both behaved the way you did. That's where the answer lies in who was abusive. Abuse is about power and control, this is what defines abuse.

Abusive people are very much in control. Their behaviour is careful and calculated, even if it doesn't always seem it.