GP's who are teachers not being remorseful for corporal punishment

[maratara]

I have recently found out that my MIL and FIL who were both primary school teachers ( so up to 12yo max) have both caned children who were badly behaved when they were teaching in the 70's and 80's. It has blown my mind. I burst into tears - I have left all my 4 children with them alone at various times . I had no idea. They think it was just the times, and I am overreacting and I don't understand how things were. This is not that long ago though really! And nobody had a gun to their head to hit a child.

I think they were bullies who used a power imbalance to hit a child with a stick.
Needless to say our relationship has taken a bad turn. I really liked them until now - been with their son for close to 20 years but only found out about this 2 days ago.
What would you do?
My youngest is 11 so it's easy to say he just doesn't want to stay at Grandma's anymore in the holidays for a night. Other children are adults so would never stay the night - just come to family gatherings and things.

What do other people think?

I am always shocked by how many people still use/approve of corporal punishment. And that includes plenty of young people. I've seen plenty of threads on here where the majority are in favour of smacking. Except the always call it "tapping".

I don't think you're overreacting at all. I went to school in the early 80s and if Id seen a teacher lay a finger on a child I'd have been horrified! My parents too! Even if it was common place and expected where they worked, to still be proud of it is appalling. Not even a hint of remorse as it was differnt times so we didn't know any better, etc. tells me they still think it was right and would do it again if it were legal.

In fact it was the head teacher who caught me swinging through the coat racks, not sure why that was quite so wrong but I got a smack on the legs for it

It was minor in todays behaviour - but would not now be considered punishable.

Major behaviour is bearing up teachers, 1 days suspension, or absconding school, afternoon suspension, searing at a teacher - lunch with the head teacher, pinching a staff member, lunch with head master and a chocolate bar.

Different times indeed.

I used to write ‘please cane this boy’ on a bit of paper and send them to the head of house.

it didn’t change behaviour but did get them out the room for a few mins. (the 70s)

Well I knew I was being a bit cheeky, messing about so to speak.

But as you say it is different times, what do they say the past is a different country?

I think OP overracted but then there has been a bit of drip feeding so who knows.

i knew someone, no longer alive, but he would be 90, who used to hit his boys if their school reports were bad.

what age are the grandparents now @maratara

If your PIL don't feel any regret, then I would judge that and feel disappointed in them OP
I went to primary school in the 60s , secondary school in the 70s and trained as a primary teacher in the 80s.
Corporal punishment was legal until 86 but far from the norm in primary schools in the 70s and 80s. I'm not saying it didn't happen but I dispute that it was standard practice. By 1982 there was an eu ruling that it couldn't be administered without parental permission. I taught with many older teachers none of whom rued the passing of corporal punishment.
Even my secondary school, like many others in my area, removed corporal punishment in the 70s. Way before it was finally banned. The one school that retained it was well known because of this. It stood out even then because it used the cane.
It was a much debated practice throughout my childhood so it is ridiculous to suggest it was simply an accepted aspect of life in schools in the 70s and 80s and that teachers, particularly primary teachers, had no choice.

I disagree with with their actions but in the 70s this was very common. Unless you found out in a way that made you think they enjoyed it I can't see why you're so upset.

Edit to clarify - by common I mean it was allowed at lots of schools, not that it happened lots at these schools. I knew it was allowed at my junior school but it was a not commonly used there.

Both my parents were teachers in the 70/89's.

I've never asked them about corporal punishment although we were smacked as children.

But they changed with the times and evidence.

Social norms and expectations change. Use of language evolves.

As long as people change with it there's no reason to believe they have caused harm or will cause harm.

Calm down op. I went to school in the 1970's and getting canned was still a thing. All children knew that was a risk if they really misbehaved. It wasn't a big part of education but more a threat to dangle over kids. And practically all of us from that era also got smacked at home as well.

Wow I really hope you're not judged this harshly by your children-in-law in 2060 for your current childrearing practices (which will almost certainly be considered misguided or even harmful) .

I don't accept that as a justification. It's all very " was just doing what I was told to do by my commanding officer".

In addition to a gross overreaction your arrogance is staggering and possibly makes you more susceptible to doing atrocious things than other people who find it easier to understand that decent people can do bad things.

It's knowing that perfectly ordinary people can behave in truly cruel ways that prevents me from becoming so arrogant and hopefully protects me against being persuaded to participate in such behaviour.

There is plenty of research on this topic you should look it up because it sounds like you are quite naïve about such matters.

Your casual reference to a phrase that was used by many Nazi officers when they were put on trial for war crimes should really have been the wake up call that you have blown this out of proportion.

We live on the same street as one of my mum's teachers who used to hit her with a shoe and throw board rubbers at her. I've never heard her say anything negative about him and will always stop to say hello and ask how he is if he's in his garden when she's coming to visit me. When I asked her about it, she shrugged her shoulders and said "I was a little shit". The same with my granddad, he tells me there was a chalkboard in assembly with the names of all the boys that had to go for a caning after assembly, and he just said "we'd never tell our parents because then we'd get another beating when we got home". So I can believe they don't blame the teacher. Things were very very different.

I went to a convent and had numerous canings by nuns. One of which called me a heinous bitch because I refused to cry, I was 7 (I know this because it was around the time I made my 1st Holy Communion). This was one of the things that has plagued my life unfortunately.

I would expect them to show some remorse now op - normal practice at the time or not. It was a barbaric practice and I would hope that now they might realise this. Did they hit their own children when they were growing up?

I went to a very modern primary school in 1978. It was treated with suspicion by many because the heads of both infants and juniors would not allow corporal punishment. We managed to not run riot.

I had quite enough of beatings at home, so it was nice being somewhere that I wasn't deliberately hurt.

The related high school still caned kids until the last minute, though. One of my brothers came home furious, with three deep welts across his left hand and told me that if any teacher ever tried to do it to me, I was to tell him and he'd deal with them.

I'd have no time for anybody who behaved like that ever. Children should be safe everywhere and there is and was no excuse for it by the mid 70s.

Jesus. I'm so sorry 😞

Thank you x

The legislation in 1986 only reflected best practice at the time. It didn't bring about the end of corporal punishment except in the minority of schools who hadn't changed their practice along with the evidence.

The cane was used at my secondary school, for boys. Girls got a verbal dressing down from the senior mistress. Nobody thought anything of it. There were plenty of other punishments before it got that far - lines, detention, writing out the school rules….So, afaik, use of the cane was rare.

As pp have said, our parents smacked us on occasion. Nobody thought anything of that either. They were different times - smoking, homophobia, rape within marriage, dv, sexual inequality were all accepted far more than they are now!

Imo, you are overthinking it OP. People’s attitudes have changed considerably.

DH went to Catholic schools (in the UK) and his primary school teachers were nuns. He was hit several times by them, as were most pupils -- boys anyway.
As everyone has said, it was a different time. But I still find it hard to think of nuns doling out corporal punishment. He has no time for the Church now.

I was in school in the 60's and 70's - corporal punishment was commonplace in every school I ever heard of. It was a lifetime ago - literally. Breaking up a family and denying your children a relationship with good grandparents because of the way people and society thought decades ago is insane. Believe me, there will be things that you think normal now that in 40 years time will be cosdiered horrendous. That is the nature of change.

YABCompletelyU

it was the times
my dad was caned at school and at home. Normal then.
yiu are being hysterical

How old are you in laws and when did they retire, @maratara ?