Am I expecting too much?

[Mummobile]

Hello everyone!

I'm reaching out today because I find myself at a bit of a crossroads and would dearly appreciate some outside perspective and perhaps advice from those who've maybe been in a similar situation.

A little background: My husband and I have been together for over 13 years, married for 10, and we're blessed with two beautiful children. We met when we were young, grew together, shared career paths, and had similar ideals about our future. However, since we've had our children, I've noticed a shift in our values and dynamics that's been hard for me to reconcile.

For instance, he doesn't uphold the same standards of cleanliness and hygiene as I do, which often leaves me feeling stressed and burdened with chores. There's also the issue with his family overstepping boundaries without him standing up for us, which has been a strain. I've also always envisioned my children having a close relationship with their extended family, but my husband doesn't share this sentiment and would prefer a more insular approach. In other words, he prefers to be isolated from people but I don’t… and this has transferred with how we are with family. Family have noticed this also… I should have known when I’d met him as he wasn’t particularly close to anyone ( family ), but he prefers being distant…. And I’m the opposite.

Another concern is his role as a father. I feel he's somewhat complacent, not fully engaged, and this has resulted in a lot of responsibility falling on my shoulders, which was a significant contributor to my anxiety when our children were born. I had this ideal that we'd have a close-knit village around us, but that hasn't come to pass. His complacency has been noted by others as well, and his communication style and lack of patience often paint him in a negative light. He's sought therapy to manage some anger issues, which I think may have stemmed from feeling overwhelmed by fatherhood.

On a day-to-day basis, we get along well as a couple, but I feel our partnership in forming a cohesive family unit is lacking. I sometimes wonder if he feels trapped in this life that perhaps wasn't what he envisioned, and I end up feeling like collateral damage.

I've been in this relationship for so long that I'm struggling to identify what's normal anymore. I see all these family perfect lives on social media and I think - that is definitely not us. Don’t get me wrong, we have lots of family time… it’s the fact that I have a family ideal evolving being a lot closer to everyone around us…. I'm left wondering if I'm being unrealistic in my expectations. Am I asking for too much? Or is it fair for me to want more for me and my children?

Insights, advice or experiences would be really appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

Some context via examples in the complacency include

• Does not do bedtime - has only ever managed to take both children to bed once before (oldest 4). Other times have resulted in him loosing his patience.
• Sitting at the kitchen table, whilst my daughter unlocks a cupboard, goes in to grab a washing tablet. Whilst he was watching her, she but in and swallowed it, resulting in us going to A&E. he didn’t think she would put it in her mouth.
• The slightest cry, he hands a child over to me to handle.
• He finds everything extremely overwhelming and goes on weekends away with friend to de-chill. I’ve never had a break or night away once.
• When children are unwell, they naturally want their mother 24/7 which is fine, but our house will turn into a disaster zone because he doesn’t attempt to keep on top of putting stuff away or cleaning anything.

My eldest is 4. I do nothing but chase my tail with trying to talk to him. He gets very defensive and defends everything he does and that’s it’s enough… he just doesn’t realise that the level of enough is not equal and I am the collateral damage.

The distance from family is another thing. Even when we are with family, he makes unpleasant remarks that he’d like to leave when we’ve barely spent half a day with people. Fair enough if he doesn’t want spend time with anyone… but it’s also a break for me, when our children are getting attention and love from other people.

Family life has not jelled with him at all and I feel completely out of sink with this family life we have created, and I’m not sure I’m happy or if this is normal or a phase 😞

Well, he sounds lazy, selfish and pretty useless, so no wonder you're not happy!

You should have the same amount of free time, lie-ins and time away.

When you're both at home, housework and work and childcare should be split equally.

He's not doing his share at all.

Doesn't sound like he will change, so you need to decide what you want from life, and what he adds to your life...

Yeah that doesn't sound good. My situation is perhaps different as was abusive but also has a case of absolutely no thought of consequence which was dangerous but also didn't want any family involvement.

It started out as a few then expanded out to everyone to the point we were fully isolated. Don't let yourself be isolated, it's horrible.

Same with sharing responsibilities, it was heavily one sided on my part and it ran me into the ground, along with being isolated and the abuse on top.

I am a father, I stepped up and did it all. He's doing Jack shit by the sounds of it, and more concerning not thinking a child would put that in their mouths that could have gone horribly wrong.

My other thoughts are, that if we separate my children will get allocated time with him as a parent and all I feel is concern for them. I know that being a lazy parent isn’t a crime and I can’t do anything about that, but if we all live under the same roof, I know my children will get the attention and love they need 24/7 (from me).

If I do make the decision to separate… Do I wait until my children are older and more dependent? When I feel more confident that his responsibility of care as a parent won’t be so overwhelming? I don’t want my children to become collateral damage.

Am I expecting too much?

Who do you think is the authority on what you should expect?

Expectations should be agreed on mutually in a relationship. But I get defensive pushback, denial and anger every time I try to open a dialogue.

Hmm sounds bit familiar. Does he take blame or fault for anything at all, or does that also get the same result?

You might be able to tread water until kids are old enough to recognise danger if he has them 50/50 if you separate later?

I would take kids alone to see family. He’s not worth the selfish hassle if he’s not enjoying it.

He sounds like a real mill stone around your neck. Pathetic excuse of a husband & father.

Make a plan. Gather information, take legal advice. Information is power. Information gives you a sense of more control. Get rid at first opportunity.

It's interesting that you say you started out with similar ideals, but that his values have diverged from yours. That sounds like a good starting point for a conversation with him, since it sounds like it might be the kind of discussion you've had but not in a while? That might be the most effective way in - start big picture and prompt him to think about and express his own ideals and values. He needs to be able to offer something rather than just hiding away and leaving you wondering where your hopes and dreams went.

It sounds like he might need it spelt out to him in very basic terms that you too need a break sometimes. Maybe he is managing to kid himself that you don't really want to be away from the kids and find it much easier than he does. You may have to be explicit about the impact on you, obvious as it may seem. Could you propose something tangible, e.g. every Tuesday night you will go out to an activity, or you want to plan some weekends away where the kids stay with your mum or someone?

Ultimately, if after discussion, he is resolute in his (imo pretty miserable and stingy) values and defensive about his behaviour, then it may be time to discuss next steps including separation, as you need to be a team pulling in the same direction otherwise it's just going to be uphill all the way. I do take your point about not trusting him to keep them safe on his days of access, and I wish I had an answer.

For what it's worth, no, I certainly don't think you're expecting too much to expect your husband to do some basic parenting and clean up after himself.

He doesn’t take any blame for anything, he see’s no fault in himself. He has a superior complex and other people have past remarks on it over the last few years. I would speak calmly and openly with him and he will raise his voice and use an aggressive tone. If i tell him to please stop, he will continue and get angry at me for saying that. He’s had therapy for anger last year which helped briefly.

Expectations should be agreed on mutually in a relationship

According to who? The 'who' is the important bit, here. Are you expecting too much according to who?

According to him. I get shut down if before I’m even able to form a sentence when he knows what I’m trying to say. It’s like the topic is off limits for him.

Ok, this is not a good sign. I know I suggested trying to have conversations with him upthread... If you feel those would be worthwhile conversations to have with him (if he actually engaged calmly and respectfully), could you do it by writing? I've heard of couples in crisis turning timings around by writing each other letters - it let them reflect on things without feelings of defensiveness being triggered in the moment. But that said, it is not fair for you to have to live with someone with such a bad temper that he can't have a productive conversation with you.

I don't know your situation obviously so take with a pinch of salt and may not be the case.

However, I was very much like you with my wife our entire marriage where it didn't feel normal family life. Would dish out criticism and blame me for everything but couldn't take any form back, even though was in the wrong. Everyone else started noticing it too, didn't hide it any more but worse at home.

Similarly, I would talk calmly and ask to stop shouting and would incrementally get louder. I would say 'I understand, I'm trying to talk about it with you but can you please stop shouting. The children are right here, I am right next to you, there's no need, let's talk and resolve it'. That became screaming into my face, denying that was shouting at all.

So he says that expectations should be agreed on mutually, but then doesn't let you speak? Have I got that right?

No he doesn’t comment on expectations, he represses the conversation completely.

Sorry, I was confused with what you were asking - I feel that expectations should be an open dialogue between both of us.

You could always go and visit his family without him. You don't need him around to build and maintain your own relationships with extended family on both sides. You don't have to always do visiting as a couple.

But if you are having to do stuff like that alone, then you may as well be a single parent.
Ask yourself the key question: would your life with your DC be better if he wasn't living there with you?

If he is that lazy and not interested in his kids (e.g. never puts them to bed), then he is highly unlikely to want to have them by himself. He will only have them if there is another woman around to do the actual work of parenting them, e.g. his mother or he will quickly get a girlfriend and rope her in.
He may initially claim he wants 50/50 because of the money, but there is no way he will actually keep it up.

Don't waste your life if you are not happy.

I feel that expectations should be an open dialogue between both of us

And clearly he doesn't, so you're incompatible. That's it. You don't have to be criticising yourself for your level of expectation. You disagree on one of the fundamentals of decision making in a relationship, so you can't have a successful relationship. There's nothing more to it.

I’m sorry, I can understand how that feels because this is what I am living through right now.

My husband talk down to me, or makes me feel less that with “off” comments when we around other people - something that has increased over the years. It’s a type superior complex… that along with trying to push everyone else away. I don’t really have a good support system, but I do message my Mum everyday.

I’ve tried writing messages to get everything out because conversations don’t work. But he doesn’t read or listen or have any desire to understand - he always says that I’m disregarding everything he does, ignores anything I’ve written down… and it turns into a bit of a cycle where I won’t mention it again… until things escalate to me needing to say something again - if I ask for help with anything, I’m told I’m disregarding what he does already.

Ah, the cycle of abuse which you have so explicitly stated in your last message! Where he represses your thoughts and feelings. You don't seem able to communicate. For example, what does he mean by you "disregard anything he does"?

I wish it was that simple. We’ve been together a long time and it’s only in the last 4 years that he’s been this way - since we had children and started a family. I’ve wanted to try and resolve things rather than cut my losses. I’m just not sure if I have this unrealistic view of what a family should be. I also have to think about what’s best for my children too.

@Mummobile Mmm, sorry to say but sounds very much like my experience. Same with the comments in public and in front of family, humiliation.

Runs in a cycle, nice for a while then bad, nice and bad. Intermittent reinforcement, something usually your gut is saying something isn't right but your head is saying it's normal and it's your fault. Even though it's not.

Any aggressive outburst at all?

The children are already 'collateral damage', if they're seeing this stuff happen. They are building their model of what an adult relationship should look like, and what home should feel like, from what they see with you and your partner. Their 'normal', 'comfortable', 'homely' childhood memories will be of dad treating mum like shit, and mum putting up with it 'for the greater good'. They will replicate this for your grandchildren.

You have to get out. I've been where your children are. I had appalling relationships into my 40s because I had no idea, and had had no example, that leaving was an option. I thought that when things were rough, the only thing to do is to grit your teeth, try to fix yourself, and stay for more.

Don't do it to them. Show them that when you're treated badly, as an adult, you walk away. Be the healthy parent, who demonstrates that that's an option.

I will start opening a dialogue with him and say thank you for doing x y z. Then I’ll start by saying that I feel overwhelmed with x y x and if he could help more.

His response would be to raise his voice at me and say that I am making it out that what he is doing is not enough, and that I’m disregarding everything he does.

He will admit that I take the brunt of everything with the children, but he doesn’t like that I ask him for help. He won’t acknowledge or understand how I’m feeling and I know that all he feels is anger if I bring anything up. If I mention that he is raising his voice at me, he will get even more angry.