Would you stay in an unhappy marriage for the kids?

[Irange]

I’ve been married ten years, have two primary age DC. DH told me a year ago that he isn’t in love with me anymore and isn’t attracted to me, but subsequently has said he wants to stay together for the kids. There is no intimacy anymore and he is fine with that - there’s no one else. He pointed out this happens a lot in older couples but we are only in our late thirties… he said his feelings might change but he can’t say when.

Would you stay? I’m heartbroken and lonely but it feels selfish to break up the family just because of my feelings. We have tried counselling but it didn’t work. We are able to be friends and parent well together but I want more so it always ends up with me feeling miserable and rejected.

You'll get a ton of people telling you to end it, that your kids will be happier with a happy mum etc etc.

Now I came from a broken marriage that really did need to be broken, it was abusive and dysfunctional and my parents couldn't have stayed together or parented together.

And their divorce, subsequent step families, living between homes, never feeling like I had a "proper family" or a real home, STILL did me so much damage I can't say I would have been worse off if they had stayed together. It is incredibly damaging for children to experience family breakdown. It is an Adverse Childhood Experience that correlates to a host of poor outcomes. It is not something to do lightly, or to wave away with a twee "you go girl, you deserve to find happiness, happy mum happy kids" - it really, really, really isn't that simple. Take it from one who knows.

So if you really can be friends, parent well, there are no arguments and no bad atmosphere, I would stick it it until the kids are grown up, and make your plans for your own life after that (whilst also being prepared for him to find love again with someone else and leave you any time). The question is whether you really can do that, or if over time the resentment will eat you alive. People are right that living in a home with parents who hate and argue with each other all the time is not a good option. But neither is divorce, even if it makes the parents "happy" - it's still a catastrophic loss for the kids whichever way you slice it. So you're choosing between two less than great options really.

Is your husband open to the idea of you having romance outside the marriage? You could look for someone to connect with, have sex with and have fun with, whilst still maintaining your kids' stable home.

I think if you get on ok sounds like a basis for a reasonably healthy divorce which needn't adversely effect your children and you might both be happier apart.

Divorce will always affect children. Only seeing your parents part of the time, whilst having step or half siblings who get them all of the time, will always affect children. Having two different homes with different sets of rules, different adults, different pecking orders, will always affect children. There's no way you can break up a child's home that doesn't affect the child. The only question is whether the effect of breaking up the home is worse or better for the child than the effect of staying in it. People who try to pretend this is easy on kids are in a dream world imo.

Fair point @herewegoroundthebastardbush it will effect them to some extent but I guess the OP has to consider that in the balance of harms (as well as being less well off.)

I should say that I'm the child of a marriage that definitely needed to end (ideological differences) and whose parents really tried to keep things amicable post divorce, but who spent my teens acutely aware of the financial hardships my parents faced in the wake of their break-up, despite doing everything they could for me not to be aware of this. That was stressful, pretty much on a par with living in the shadow of their frosty matrimony.

Zanatdy, your comment: "People often say they can’t afford to leave but in most cases this isn’t true, it’s just a convenient reason not to rock the boat, feels like you're attaching an unhelpful couple of value judgements to women who are already struggling to make a massive decision: that they haven't taken the trouble to check out their financial entitlements and that they're too conflict-averse to make the 'right' decision. Nothing about seriously weighing up whether to break up a marriage can be described in terms of being more or less 'convenient'. Alluding to 'convenience' suggests some women just don't have it in them to roll their sleeves up and crack on with the hard graft of single motherhood.
In my group of friends, several women are in this position; earning just a touch too much as public sector workers to be eligible for financial support, earning the same as or slightly more than their spouses so no chance of maintenance if parenting 50-50, and absolutely clued up on what benefits and financial support they are not entitled to. One friend did leave her partner and is entitled to UC because her salary is low enough and she spent her equity on private rental until she qualified for help as it wasn't enough for a deposit.
We need to hear each other's struggles with compassion and patience and make room for the grim reality of women spending months and years genuinely not sure what to do for the best. We can all agree that, were it simply a matter of leaving and both parents, after an initial period of finding their feet, being able to settle in accommodation big enough to house themselves and their DC, within a sensible distance, and able to afford the basics of running a household, no spouses would be staying in atrophied relationships.

Would you stay? I’m heartbroken and lonely but it feels selfish to break up the family just because of my feelings. We have tried counselling but it didn’t work. We are able to be friends and parent well together but I want more so it always ends up with me feeling miserable and rejected.

OP, your feelings are an entirely valid reason for ending your relationship which (for him at least) has run its course. Don't minimise your feelings - you've said it's making you feel miserable. You don't need to be miserable.

Thank you all. I certainly don’t underestimate the impact on the kids of divorce - otherwise I wouldn’t have tried so hard to work on things. But I also know that my unhappiness affects them too.

Luckily I should be financially okay if we separate. I am starting to see that this might be the only way forward - the question I keep asking myself is - even if things change (which seems unlikely), could I ever trust him again and feel loved?

Exactly, it's really not as easy as "just leave", I'm not weak for staying, I'm strong.

I just went on entitled to and I would be eligible to get £78 per week. Half of that is child benefit. It's just not workable.

Jesus no. I’m late 30s. What your husband said was a complete deal breaker. Why are you even contemplating this? It’s a terrible, terrible idea and he sounds like a grade A twat to be honest.

I stayed OP. Our marriage effectively ended after the birth of our second child, when we were both 34, although it took us about 7 years to realise there would be no reconciliation.

WE never resumed sleeping together after her birth and had separate bedrooms for 18 years. We couldn't have done it without the luxury of separate bedrooms - I couldn't have slept next to someone I knew didn't love me or even fancy me. I understand you feeling rejected, but there is nothing wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with me and countless others. We just have/ had a bad marriage.

We finally split 4 years ago and even with hindsight I don't know if what we did (staying together in a loveless but relatively calm marriage) was best for the children. I think it was, but I might be biased. All I can say, is I've never tried so hard to make the right decision and do the right thing.

Good luck OP.

I can never work out how this benefits the children
surely if you wanted to benefit your children you’d model working at your marriage
or leaving and living a happy life

obviously if you can’t leave due to finances that’s different, but choosing to be miserable benefits no one.

It doesn't in my experience benefit the children truthfully I think it benefits the adults who have someone else to lay the blame on. Children I know, myself and my sibling included just get to feel like shit when they find out their parents were both miserable because they stayed together for the children, it's quite the emotional burden to put on a child/young adult.

No. But what I would do is ensure the split ifs very amicable and put the Dc first. Maybe discuss with dh getting a small one-bed flat between you very nearby and taking turns to look after dc in family home while the other parent goes to the flat so they have continuity of care. It's so expensive when marriages don't work out so i would stay under many conditions that would have other MNers advising LTB but him saying that to you is so detrimental to your sense of self and well-being, it would be a deal-breaker.

It will be interesting to see how he reacts if you say this isn't good enough. I wonder if he will suddenly change his mind.

Children I know, myself and my sibling included just get to feel like shit when they find out their parents were both miserable because they stayed together for the children, it's quite the emotional burden to put on a child/young adult.

Yep, the burden of knowing your parents gave up their happiness and chance of finding someone else, because they stayed for you is a heavy one to carry. Children didn't ask for it, but despite this I know a few adults who feel guilty that they're the reason their parents spent years suffering in loveless marriages. 😔

If you can cohabit without drama then the children benefit because they live with both their parents.

This might be less of a factor in the modern world of 50/50 custody, but in the past, divorce meant children saw very little of their Dad.

Why do you want to show the kids a fake relationship? I left mine and the best thing I did. First your entitled to be happy again for goodness sake I'm 38 and got my happiness again in a lovely 2nd marriage with a man I adore and who adores me back and 3 more wonderful kids. The olders have never had any problems whatsoever with changes.

@Sayitaintso33

Cohabiting without drama? So, a loveless, stale marriage that the kids pick up on? That’s not strong, not even remotely.

I have a lot of respect for women who are brave and don’t accept unhappiness for themselves for the “sake of the children”. It isn’t always for the kids, it’s because usually both partners in the relationship are not brave enough to make the first step in ending it.

A terrible idea all round.

I don't think anyone should have to live a lie, but I think your husband was a twat telling you those things. Telling someone you're not attracted to them anymore and even don't love them is a massive dealbreaker thing to do. It would be different if he said that and then said he wanted a divorce, but he said that and now wants to cohabit with you.

In your shoes I would be prepared for him to use those things if you find out he's been looking or been with other women 'Yeah but I practically told you our marriage is over didn't I because I told you I don't love you'.

My heart really goes out to all the women who wrestle with this and feel like they ought to move on because "you've only got one life", but see that, on balance, they would be setting themselves and their DC up for a really hard time. It shouldn't be like this, but here we are.

This. You've only got one life and do you want to spend it in poverty (unless things are awful of course). Lots of positive stories here about second marriages etc. but that isn't always the case, I'm sure there will be others with regrets.

No.

Personally, I also wouldn't like the 50/50 aspect. Hopefully, things will turn around for you op. Not sure what advice to give. Voicing it as sort of put it into another dimension for you rather than things being left unsaid and trundling along.

I think people get a bit too caught up in the "modelling" discourse. As if all that matters is the behaviour you show a child for their future emulation, and the actual environment they are growing up in matters not one whit. It's a convenient excuse for parents to do whatever makes them happy regardless of the impact it may have on their children at the time, because "you don't want them to grow up thinking they have to sacrifice any part of their happiness for someone else, do you?"

There is also a message in the behaviour of "I matter most, my happiness matters most, your stability is a legitimate sacrifice in pursuit of that greater good". It tells children they aren't their parent's priority. That they aren't important enough to sacrifice for. "Modelling" is not the entirety of parenting. There is also the actual parenting.

The olders have never had any problems whatsoever with changes.

See this is what tells me you're delusional. If you'd said "it was hard for them at first but overall it was the best thing for us all" I could believe that (everyone's experience is different). But no problems whatsoever? I call bullshit. Family breakdown is HARD on kids. The disruption, the change of routine, and the basic fact of ALWAYS having to be without at least one of your parents. And you had more kids. You REALLY don't think they've ever been jealous of their half siblings, who get to be with their mum AND dad all the time, and see how happy and loving they are to each other, to know they came from love? To feel less part of that core family, to feel like add-ons who are only there some of the time while family life goes on without them ... If you've not lived it you don't know.

And 50/50 has its own issues with the lack of consistency and the feeling of being part of two households but belonging truly to neither. It will always be a less ideal situation for kids than a single home with both parents, assuming the relationship is stable and cordial.