Cheating and conditional sexual consent

[RiverSwift1]

Being lied to and gaslighted, having your emotional health kicked to a sad dark place, along with being exposed to potential health risks that might lead to infertility, or in the extreme, kill you (where medical intervention is too late eg genital warts leading to cervical cancer, AIDS) are some of the things dumped onto partners of a cheater.

Nobody wants to be cheated on and have to go through all the shit that goes with it….but what about the law ? Any lawyers out there? or anyone who would like to comment? A quick internet search shows the definition of conditional consent sex goes something like this quote:

"WHAT IS CONDITIONAL CONSENT?
Conditional Consent is when consent is given under imposed conditions. If an act falls outside of the given conditions, then the act is non-consensual and goes against the consent given.
The Sexual Offences Act 2003, at Section 74, requires that a person 'agree by choice, and has the Freedom and Capacity to make that choice'
Under UK law consent is specific and is required for each sexual act. In some situations it can be argued that by lying or deceitful action a person can deprive someone of making a full and free choice. For example, by removing a condom without consent or knowledge, the individual deprives the person from making a choice. The person may not have consented to the sexual encounter if they had been aware of the full facts". End quote.

........…“The person may not have consented to the sexual encounter if they had been aware of the full facts” mmm isn’t that what occurs when you are cheated on?

The below link talks about conditional consensual sex and the law in England and Wales

https://www.reeds.co.uk/insight/stealthing-and-conditional-consent/#:~:text=Conditional%20Consent%20is%20when%20consent,goes%20against%20the%20consent%20given.

The example given was a sex worker and the customer was sent to jail as it was nonconsensual sex as he removed the condom…. exposing her to potential health risks...just like a cheater does each time they have unprotected sex with their faithful partner, who has been deceived and would not in many cases be having sex with their cheater if they knew the truth. Depriving them of their wish to have protected sex, now that their cheater’s sexual health is now questionable, or to bloody abstain from further sexual encounters now the unfaithful one has broken their promise to have an honest, monogamous relationship.

(If you read through all the above link, you’ll see that the person convicted was told by her not to, and also a google search reveals he also made threats after she went to the police so it was easier with this extra evidence to convict him)

I’m not a lawyer but IMO if you’ve made promises to be faithful or have told your partner that your sexual relation is ‘Conditional upon us both being sexually exclusive’ and they agreed to that conditional consent, then they cheat, they are now having non consensual sex with you. And they are at least morally sexually assaulting you, each and every time they sleep with you. At the minimum I think they are guilty of the crime of sexual coercion.

Sexual coercion includes: “…unwanted sexual activity that happens when you are pressured, tricked, threatened, or forced in a nonphysical way.

• Tricked: “Being lied to or being promised things that weren’t true to trick you into having sex….”

www.womenshealth.gov/relationships-and-safety/other-types/sexual-coercion

Yes, I know I’m lining myself up for some backlash from some of you and there are a lot of cheaters out there. But shit it would be great if it was also politically correct to say he/she is morally a sexual assaulter, because in manly incidences it would hurt a lot less to be bashed up by a stranger than be cheated on. And yes, maybe too idealist to think humans as a collective whole could one day morph into compassionate enough people who’d say “you know Jane, I’m thinking about banging Mina from accounts next Friday after work! you got a problem with that?” first, and you know …kind of think yeah probably best to separate first if Mina is worth it.

I agree with you.

Individuals can protect themselves against STD by using condoms or telling their sexual partner to use condoms as a condition of sex.

If you decide to have sex without protection then you are exposing yourself. If you want to be safe don’t have sex without a condom. If you want to be safe from hurt or cheating, don’t have a relationship. Because even the best people are flawed.

Society and the criminal justice system isn’t going to police relationships and fidelity. The reasons: it is counterproductive and an infringement of human rights.

From a public health perspective we need people to come forward and be tested and to inform contacts of the status. We don’t want them to fear exposure.

Hi Lemon, I agree it would be hard to police and gather proof for a court situation. But to expect married or partnered people to continue to wear condoms is also a bit too much…but I suppose it would reduce our population 😊
I’m more thinking about what you also brought up “infringement of human rights” which sadly is missing from the current situation from the faithful partners side. Like I mentioned most would rather be bashed up by a stranger than be cheated on, and deceived into having non consensual sex. I do agree with you also that cheaters wont to put in jail, in the foreseeable future… as they’d probably be no lawyers left 😊

Haha it would be good if all cheaters who are married were sent to jail. They made legal vows to be be faithful therefore it should have consequences.

Condoms don't wholly prevent hsv or HPV etc.

They can also break and you're exposed to the whole range.

Expecting ppl to never get into ltrs or marriages to avoid being exposed to STDs by their partners is not realistic.

If you want to be safe from hurt or cheating, don’t have a relationship. Because even the best people are flawed.

This is never ever going to happen abdvwe all know it.

Besides about half of people will not be cheated on in ltrs and marriages, according to whatever stats we have.

Have a look at the list of countries where infidelity is a crime and ask yourself whether you’d like to live in any of them. Most of them also reject the concept of marital rape and consider one spouse not wanting to have sex with the other grounds for annulment on the basis of breach of the marital contract.

Because it follows then that that should similarly be fraud: women marrying men, giving a reasonable expectation of a sexual relationship within that legal contract and making vows for as much, and then saying no to sex later on. Clear breach of contract. Sounds like an excellent upholding of legal vows, right?

If you want to be safe from hurt or cheating, don’t have a relationship. Because even the best people are flawed.

There's flawed, which we all are ... And then there's fucking people outside your exclusive relationship in which you expect your oh not to fuck other people .... Loads of people manage to not do that. It's not a "flaw" you have to accept as normal/average.

Please do not cheapen the trauma of rape by comparing it to being pissed off that your BF had enjoyable sex with you whilst also having something going on with other women.

The older I get the more I agree with you. But it could never work.

Fine line isn't it. Liberal approach to sexuality versus oppressive regimes where "infidelity" is punished. And we know what that can mean for women in some places in the world.

But, and I say this as someone who cheated about 30 years ago (not to my current partner)... it has huge consequences. Mental, spiritual, health... and I don't think we recognise that.

I've got a friend who is cheating at the moment. I love her and we have been friends forever. I pull no punches though and tell her what she's doing to her partner. That is it totally morally rotten. Yes I know in MN world I'd dump her forever but... it's difficult. She's still the firmed I love but has compartmentalised that part of her life to an extent that I fear it is almost sociopathic.

It's the health risk exposure that angers me most about infidelity. I'm not jealous by nature and certainly don't jump to thinking I've done something wrong. It's unfortunate, but reality is the best way to protect yourself is to get tested regularly and keep up with smear test appointments - not too hard - abd immediately dump anyone who has put you at greater risk, because that makes them just not good enough anymore.

What a very bizarre description of infidelity.

The sex was without full, informed consent.

It's lacking consent in an entirely different way from rape.

But they both lack consent.

Easy. I have the right to control my body and my mind. Nobody, father, husband, brother, partner, police or court are going to get control on the back of a promise. That is legally coerced.

There are parts of the world that will give you what you want, complete with public flogging.

They didn’t make legal vows not to cheat.

The lack of consent is something I have been trying to articulate for 20 years!

If I can known he was sleeping with someone else I wouldn't have had sex with him, gone on holiday with him, moved house with him!

Thank you for putting in to words something that has kept me awake at night!

I always said 'choice' he chose to cheat, she.chose to sleep with him, knowing he was building a life with me.

The only person who wasn't given a choice was me!

But I think lack of consent describes it better!

No I don't agree and where do you draw the line? Reminds me of the time my sister slept with someone and he didn't want to see her after and she claimed she had basically been raped because she wouldn't have consented otherwise 🙄

Weirdly enough I was mulling this over earlier.

My cheater. We'd agreed to be monogamous and I made it clear to him early on that I would not accept cheating. So no, he no longer had my informed consent once he started. Nothing like rape of course, but I still feel it's was at the lower range of sexual assault at that point. Not just consent, but informed consent, is important to me.

Not something for the courts though.

There something like a 3% conviction rate for rape in this country. That is a massive scandal. Infidelity is hardly the same scale and legal action would mean keeping company with the sort of countries where women are stoned to death. Your proposal OP is pretty deluded and reads like you have been on the sherry. Sorry but no way.

What is your take on people who cheat when sex has ceased in their relationship but there is still an expectation that they shouldn't sleep with other people?

@ComtesseDeSpair I agree with some of what you wrote, like marital rape should never be allowed ever. But with the other things you say like “one spouse not wanting to have sex with the other grounds for annulment on the basis of breach of the marital contract” or “women marrying men, giving a reasonable expectation of a sexual relationship within that legal contract and making vows for as much, and then saying no to sex later on”these I agree are all valid reasons to brake the “legal contract” actual I think any or no reason is ok to brake the contract if one of the partners wish to. But with both examples you give both are not hidden from the other partner – I’m sure both people are aware that sex between them is not happening. I’m more concerned with the faithful partner not being able to chose to end the ‘legal contract’ as they are not aware that their sex health maybe at danger along with all the hurt of being deceived.

@LemonTT “Nobody, father, husband, brother, partner, police or court are going to get control on the back of a promise. That is legally coerced.” 100% agree nobody should get to control you or what you do with your body (unless you use it somehow to harm others) but if you want to cheat on someone whom you’ve have conditional consensual sex wouldn't it be better to tell them so they can decide what they want. I don’t believe we should live in a world where sexual coercion is ok either.

The vow you make to be married is not a legal contract. Only certain ministers can perform a wedding otherwise it has to be performed by a registrar. The contract is formed by signing of the register.

The vow to be faithful is not part of the legal contract of marriage.

@BananaSlug No what your sister did isn’t right as both parties did not agree to conditional consensual sex, in her case it leading to a relationship. But where do we draw the line? Idk but if you do agree to sex with conditions freely and with no deception then it should be at least a moral right to inform the other that you intend to or have broken the conditions to continuing.

If you're going to say there's a legal vow not to cheat, then there is a legal vow that sex be part of the marriage, and that's ridiculous.