Why do people get upset they're not engaged or married?

[Lalalalala555]

Writing this to try and understand.
Almost to try and understand myself too.

[I find myself in a long term relationship, feeling frustrated that I'm not engaged.
Yet ironically I'm not really sure why.

I love freedom, knowing I'm in charge of my own life and not being dependant on someone.

It feels as though engagement and getting married is a process that really gets into people's heads. Including mine it seems. Yet I'm not sure why a ring and a big party managed to seem so very important.]

Is there a logical reason or is it society and conditioning?
Does anyone else have this?
There seem to be lots of posts about partners being upset they're in long relationships, without engagement.
Why is that? Why are we do focused on it?

I love freedom, knowing I'm in charge of my own life and not being dependant on someone.

I love those things too.
I also love my husband of 15 years.
Marriage and freedom/independence mutually exclusive, once you’re clever about who you marry.

In my case, I wanted the commitment and the security.

That said, when we married neither of us had a pot to piss in but we’ve built assets together, and neither of us made the decision yo step back in our careers, so it’s all very balanced and fair.

I doubt men do.

That's exactly how I feel/felt.. engagement ended with him cheating with someone much younger.. I feel like I've accepted that I'm never going to marry, which is fine I guess.. but the feeling of not being good enough is hard sometimes..

Wanted DC and was concerned about fertility risks increasing with age. Wanted the legal and financial protection of marriage in the event of motherhood meaning I’d earn less (as happened). If my DP didn’t want marriage and had to start again didn’t want to have ‘wasted’ years.

It is definitely social conditioning and I am so surprised to see that young people, my kids generation, still fall for it. I too wanted to marry and was over the moon when I did, but now 53 yo and freshly divorced I do not get it, do not get what I was thinking. I wish, more then anything, that I can talk to that 27 yo young, smart, educated, gorgeous looking woman, and tell her only one thing: "Stay free".

Well MN hates weddings but as a soon-to-be-bride the whole fanfare about it annoys me. Everyone expects it to be all I talk and think about, and are a bit shocked I haven't spent 6 months obsessing over details. No such expectations for STBH though?

Also OP to answer your question if marriage is what you want yes you feel sad you don't get it. Despite what people say about mirror wills etc for a relationship marriage is the ultimate commitment.

I wanted to get married as a sign of committing myself to my husband for the rest of my life, and before considering having children. It had nothing to do with peer pressure, expectations, or legal security, which wasn't something I ever considered. It also had nothing to do with having a big sparkly ring - mine cost £32.50 - and certainly nothing to do with a big wedding as our whole wedding cost under £200, plus whatever the register office charged, which I've long since forgotten .

No babies without the security of marriage in my case - there is no way I would have agreed to DC without marriage, and I controlled contraception.

And yes, a fair dose of it being the done thing. A very expensive wedding wasn’t on the cards - not interested in that, just a great day.

A couple of friends who had DC without marriage have been badly affected financially by relationship break downs.

Sending sympathy, Roses. Being dumped hurts like hell. But it doesn’t reflect badly on you. Picking up someone half your age and taunting you shows what a creep he is. I hope you meet someone better soon.

He or you could have died at any time. You are late to figure this benefit of marriage out. 😊

I remember a huge social pressure to marry c age 30. Fb was full of wedding pics. Women's profile pics were often them in their white dresses.

Women (not men) get hundreds of likes for photos of an engagement ring/wedding etc.

Then there's the Disney princess legacy.

Marriage is still seen as an achievement for women.

It's shot!

Were your parents married?
Are your peers married?

My parents were not, I have no familial pressure, and peers are widely unmarried and happy.

Probably contributes to me not feeling any such pressure. I'm also happily single but have faced zero perceivable stigma, but I am a mother and this may ensure I don't feel 'worthless' in society.

What's wrong with it is when the cart is before the horse and the party and event takes over from the actual marriage.

If you’re a woman in a long term relationship you get asked (up to a certain age) if you think you might marry him or get married. That’s annoying. If a man won’t marry you when YOU want to get married it’s basically because he wants to keep his options open and you’re not The One. Insofar as that’s a thing.

I’ve known so many men who have said “not the marrying kind” to their long term girlfriends, ditched them after 12 years or 18 years in one case then become engaged within 18 months, if not sooner. Children, no children - so easy to ditch your girlfriend and much harder than your wife.

If my DH hadn’t wanted to marry me, I’d have binned him.

Me and my husband got engaged and married because I am religious by my own choice as an adult. My husband is not but wanted to get married because for him that shows his commitment. Everyone is different

But I can assure you we are both very much free and have our own lives and are not dependent on eachother

Also both of us want to have the same last name as our child

I don't get why people are quick to defend being dependent. Surely the point of a family unit is it acts as one, i.e. not independent of one another. I don't see why this is meant to be a bad thing?

I could be misunderstanding. I don't consider myself independent. I consider myself part of a family, albeit me and one child, but I am not free to do whatever I want, such as quit work, go on a month long holiday, because I am part of a family and not acting independently.

Just curious.

This is a good point the members in a civil partnership, marriage or family are not independent, I think they are what is called inter-dependent were members depend equally on each other in a rotating leadership rather than anyone being a full on dependent. It’s only a few members that are truly dependent - children, elderly, disabled.

God knows! I think we (particularly females) are conditioned to think that engagement & marriage are the necessary steps to happiness! Despite being divorced now, I still love what marriage stands for but in reality it means nothing. It doesn't mean your man is any less committed if he hasn't proposed. Marriage is an expensive party and a legal piece of paper! Marriage is a darn sight harder to get out of than to get into believe me!! Ultimately you and your partner should be on the same page. Have you spoken about marriage? Is it something he foresees?

@mymcdonaldsaintonthemap
I meant free in the sense that I do not have to ask my husband if I can quit my job I can do it once I have another one lined up which would be the same if I was single because I have bills to pay. If I want to go out with my friends or book a holiday aslong as the funds are there then I let my husband know my plans and there's no debate on it and he will arrange to ensure he is there for childcare for our child. But this would be the same if I was single I wouldn't just book a holiday on whim without the funds being there.

All the above goes to him too

Legal security. Big party isn't needed.

If you're not sure why you're feeling frustrated about it then yes it's almost definitely societal conditioning.

I think it may be partly social conditioning, but I think it's also about commitment and what it means when one side obviously does not want to be married

Because to me the question would be - why not? what other goals / relationship milestones my partner is going to skip?

I’m not sure what is wrong with social conditioning. Social conditioning means we do not

• rape, murder, rob
• beat our partners, children
• torture and kill animals for fun
• dont use hate speech or stalk or harrass people
• think about volunteer work or charity, helping the less fortunate
• dont sexually cheat on an intimate partner
• dont lie
• pay our taxes
• use social etiquette
• say sorry if we hurt someone
• dont jump into water unless we know how to swim
• don’t drive unless we know how
• stop at red lights, go at green lights
• drive on the same side of the road at a certain speed limit

Everything we do that makes our society civilised is social conditioning, the really important bits are backed up with laws to punish us if we disobey. Social conditioning isn’t always for greater good, it can also be for our own benefit.

Marriage is often entered with high emotion ie romance... but it's a legally binding contract.

Couple of basic rules on signing contracts..

1. read and understand all the T&Cs because these are what count if there's a dispute down the line, only a fool doesn't do their due diligence so pay an expert to read it for you if in any doubt.
2. never sign a contract that one party has an incentive to break, it'll be the Sword of Damocles over your head the entire time.
3. if the other party is using high emotion to encourage or pressurise a contract, step back to take a breather and consider their full motivations from every angle.

For the higher earner of the couple, it's simply the worst contract imaginable.
And a core reason marriage is in such steep the decline.