boozy parents

[Chepstow1]

I like a glass of wine or three, don't get me wrong, but my parents are serious social drinkers. For them this means 2 large home measure G&T's at 6pm and 3/4 to a bottle of wine each (and this is on a night at home), when people come round then sky is the limit.

I am worried about their health but this is a seperate issue. My concerns lie in the fact that they want ti be "active grandparents" and look after Ds. Last week I asked them to sit for me for the first time (first time I have ever left him). My brother has a DD and has had several rather dodgy experiences with my parents (e.g going next door and leaving the baby, coming home from a nights out and regularly finding my parents trashed on a regular basis etc etc.). It is not that they drink, it is that when they drink they become much less with it on the childcare front and in fact, do rather mad things. In my experience, i came home to find 2 empty bottles of wine in the bin and the baby moniter in the living room (they were in bed on a seperate floor). When I went into my son's room, he was on top of the bed with no blankets and a bib over his face.

Next day Mum and Dad said that they "had never needed moniters in their day" and that the reason for the sheets etc, was "as Dad had put him to bed". I know from seeing them after a few sherberts, that they just lose common sense. They are quite right no harm was done, but just for once I thought they could lay off it and focus on my son. The issues that occurred were minor but I naturally assume that some of their decisions were influenced by the bevvy.Mum knows I am cheesed off but more about what occurred (moniter/sheets) than booze.

How do you raise this stuff when you also love opening a bottle or two yourself no and again and also to share it with them, without seeming like a neurotic first time parent (which is what my parents think I am)..

Any thoughts out there

Xmas is coming and I am dreading it

Miriam - my relationship has been restored with my mum - hope you will be able to do the same. It was hard though and at times I hated her so much that I told her that she was not welcome at my house or near my kids.

My parents attitude to date has been "well I brought up you 3 OK". Mum was 17 when she got married and is now 57 but honestly, she could pass for 10 or 15 years older due to her attitudes e.g life is very much a routine, and I think this is part of it. Both of them hate the routine disrupted. Mum think us new Mums get way too much info and in her day "winging it" made you far less stressed etc.

As I have said before, when I lay down the rules (and I know this will happen, I have no faith that they will suddenly change), I will be labelled a complete control-freak, highly strung etc etc. So what, as you guys have said, it is my own family that come first.

I wish I could hug you all, you have made me feel normal and stronger.

Chep - it won't suddenly change - it has taken us a long time to get my mum to see what she has been doing. We have heard every story in the book - one consolation you are not alone, theres probably loads of us out there. I have screamed, roared, slammed doors and came very close to hitting her across the face.

But yes your children are your's and you make your rules and yes they come first and your husband. I went through some difficult times with my DH when her drinking was out of hand because I used to forgive her but last time I stood my ground and the bouquets of flowers didn't work anymore, nor the saying for the sake of it.

Hope things get better.

meant to say the saying "sorry" for the sake of it

Thanks sugs - Merry Xmas eh!!! - hope you and your family have a great one!

Dear Chepstow1,
lots of sympathy. Sorry if I'm repeating alot of what others might say..you are not a neurotic new mum, you're rightly concerned about leaving your child with people that become too plastered to notice if anything goes wrong. Your mum sounds like she knows their intake is too much ( getting defensive etc), best form of defence is attack...hense the " neurotic new mum " lable. The only way they'll change their routine is if they really want to, and it really doesn't sound like they do at the moment. Also it's not just you, but your brother too that has concerns. Don't let them babysit at night, and if they get pissed off about it, you can let them know why, and use your brother as back up ( all easier said than done I know).
It reminds me of the whole drink driving attitude difference between the generations. People my parents age always gripe about how strict they are these days, how it was never an issue in their day etc, as if that's justification to drink and drive!
Good luck with it all.

my mum drinks far too much..to the point that now i will not phone her on a night because i cant bear to listen to her slurring..and the next day she never remembers a word i said. ive challenged her over her drinking many times..she used to give me lame excuses but now just goes very quiet if i mention it. i cant stop her. however, i didnt know she did this when taking care of my son. one night i came home from a night out when she had looked after him, i watched her from the window..she was so drunk she fell down on my garden path three times. i didnt hesitate to tell her the next day and actually i think it brought her to her senses because although she does still drink a lot, she doesnt do it when she has my children. (i think she quite likes having them and the threat of not allowing her to did it). so it definately is worth i think, giving them a chance first. if they outright refuse to stay sober then at least you know where you stand and dont have to leave your son with them again?

Chepstow,

Was wondering whether you had spoken with Al-Anon and if you did, I hope you found them to be helpful. You need support as well.

Certainly never share any alcohol with them again.

What does your Brother think about their drinking?

Having read this I would say that your parents are both dependent on alcohol to function properly. I notice that your Mum has become very forgetful; this is one side effect of long term chronic alcoholism. It is not totally a reversible side effect either. Unless they both admit that they have issues with drink (they will not be able to drink alcohol ever again) they will not change their behaviour with regards to it. As it is they are propping each others drinking habits up. It will not work for one to stop drink, they both have to decide to stop at the same time and with professional support. I would think your Dad started drinking at a very young age and your Mum for her own reasons joined in.

Would certainly not get them to babysit under any circumstances. Meet them instead in a neutral location (where no food or alcoholic drink will be served).

Hi there - thanks again.MeerkatsUnite I called al-anon and there were very helpful and gave me some re assurances but suggested that the next step for me to be able to equipt myself to deal with this is to attend meetings. I may be mad, but I just don't feel right now that I want to do that. I guess in myself this makes the whole thing "very serious" when actually my parents are not drinking at 9am or anything, plus I am a bit of a private person and try and deal with things myself (may live to regret this).

TwasTheNightBeforeXmasOwl - your Mum and mine sound very similar. I NEVER phone after 7pm on any day of the week. I can tell by the way my Mum picks up the phone and says her home number how bevvied she is and the calls are a waste of time because she forgets we have had them.

I also know that recently she has stopped calling me at her worst times which are Sunday night (Sunday involves pints at lunchtime, sunday dinner about 5pm and wine opened even earlier) and when she has people over, as I am short with her on the phone and the next day have commented that she was a bit skinned the night before.

My brother is very concerned and has tried the direct approach, now however just does not leave his DD in their care in the evenings. He has a very good support network (family etc near by), I live 200 miles from home and have just moved, however paying a babysitter is a lot less hassle (have not yet actually done this yet as my baby is stil a bit young and is being a bit of a pain in the evenings right now - as soon as things settle I will have no hesitation).

Parents have asked if we want to go on holiday with them this year and my husband nearly choked when I mentioned this to them. Holidays are REALLY bad times, and their suggestion that we could come and they could babysit is just a joke.

I am going to lay down the rules eg sober when babysitting, give them 1 more chance and go out somewhere nearby, if they blow it then I will have all the justification to spell out why they cannot sit again.

Chepstow1, I have been reading this thread and wondering whether to post but your last message rang so many bells with me I felt I had to. My mother was always a problem drinker - I also wouldn't phone after 7pm and definitely never on a Sunday! Unfortunately, a few things went wrong in my mum's life which meant she was off work for a while, and once she lost the structure that work gave her, she descended rapidly into full alcholism (drinking all day etc). She died a month before I had my DS, so I never had to face the issues your dealing with now.

Obviously I'm not saying that this would happen to your parents - in fact I don't know why I'm posting it really, other than to say that I understand the situation you're in. A lot of the things you've posted would suggest that your parents are definitely problem drinkers - it causes problems for you and your brother for a start. Their refusal to accept any criticism of their drinking and also their refusal to modify their behaviour for you and your brother on occasion is also a big worry. I would also say that heavy drinkers try and justify their behaviour by saying that 'everyone likes a drink', which can often make you feel like you're the neurotic one (well that's how it worked in my family anyway). If appealing to their better nature, and the love of their grandchildren doesn't work then it would seem that the only option you have is to find other babysitters.

Just as an aside, I would also describe myself as a very private person. I went along to an Al-anon meeting and absolutely hated it!!! It's right for some people but not for others I'd say (sorry, don't mean to be offensive to those who have had success with it, I just didn't feel comfortable).

Hi Chepstow,

Glad you spoke to Al-anon.

Can well understand why you don't want to attend meetings currently but in the longer term I think you need to consider attending a meeting. I think you are in a quandary; these people concerned are your parents and they are both problem drinkers. I think going to Al-anon meetings will bring these problems to you full on (it certainly makes it more formalised and serious in your mind) and you are not ready for that reality yet.

Why don't you see if you can read some publications on the subject of alcoholism in families, this may help you further?. You need knowledge and knowledge is power.

I can also relate as to why you want to deal with this yourself and you are happy with this at this time (all sorts of emotions go through your head) but this is too big and serious a problem for you to deal with by yourself and without support for you and your immediate family. I think you will come to perhaps regret your current course of action in the longer term if you did not seek further help for yourself in the longer term.

Although your parents are primarily evening drinkers you do not know for certain that they are not drinking at 9am. They have a serious drink problem regardless of the hour they drink at.

I wish you well and will look out for your messages

This is Reds and I'm new to this game - I have a son whose nearly 2 but this is the first time I've entered this website. Chepstow1 I can tell you now that you aren't neurotic and I've a funny feeling I know that for definate!!! Leaving your children with anyone is stressful - believe me there was a time when I used to get stressed leaving my son with my husband. I have the opposite problem and have a mother who is such a worrier that everytime I leave him with her I get the third degree about everything from his mild excema to the length of his hair. She even used to ask me to leave her different clothes because she didn't like some of the outfits that I used to dress him in. Now thats neurotic!!!
In my view, looking after a child is a delicate business and after a few bumps, scrapes and falls you realise that you have to be 110% alert. Accidents will happen if you drunk or sober, but its your reaction time that counts, and anyone whose drunk over 2 units will have that reaction impaired.

Without being preachy, my advice comes from my very wise old owl sister (who indeed likes a tipple or 2)

"If it feels wrong it probably is"

I know you will be fine Chepstow 1 and in the time I've known you (!) you've always sorted out problems quickly and efficiently.

Now about that drink at Xmas.................

Thanks again you guys. Just had a conversation with Mum about whether she could sit for me on 23 Dec (to go out with Reds who has posted the previous thread - she is my best friend and recently has been a superstar about my situation. She has known my parents for years and years and I found that i could not admit to anyone that I was worried about this, as it was really airing your family laundry, very disloyal. However having a good friend has made such a difference. Once I had actually told someone it has made it easier for me to talk to others, e.g my husband, my brother, come online here etc).

Anyway - asked Mum about the 23rd and she said that this would be fine. I will be coming home to my parents house and the plan is that Reds and I will pop out for an hour or two. I said to mum that if I did leave my DS then she would need to comply with my "neurotic first time mum rules" - trying to lighted the conversation. She asked what these were and I said that I wanted her to call me if anything unusual happens, her to be in charge (last time I left my Ds and we had incidents, she blamed them on Dad), and that I would prefer her to not drink at all or in very light moderation.

She went very quiet, very curt, and promptly told me "she's have to check her diary", before putting the phone down. Had to be said though. Reds and I may end up in her living room again with the babies with us, that is fine if we do, but i had to say it, and if the rules are broken again then I feel I have given her another chance.

Maybe I should have just said "no booze" full stop as "in moderation" is open to interpretation, but if she/they is/are intoxicated then enough is enough.

Thanks again all and MrsWednesday, thanks for adding your bits

Hi Chepstow,

Have just read your message.

Why am I not at all surprised to read that she put the phone down on you when you mentioned her drinking?. In such circumstances I would make alternative arrangements re a sitter. Why should your friend and yourself end up sitting with your children in their living room?.

I can understand why you want to keep giving her a chance (she is your Mum ) but its a no win situation.

It just goes to show that drink comes first I am sorry to say. Everything and everyone else is well down their list of priorities - drink is everything to these people. Alcoholics are by their very nature selfish. Alcoholism is an illness - they are ill.

I would not go anywhere near her house at Christmas. If you want to meet up with them I would suggest a neutral location and in a place where no alcohol is available.

Chepstow, I think you did the right thing broaching the subject in a non confrontational manner. You obviously don't want to fall out with your parents who you say are lovely in every other way and let's face it, you alone will not be able to get them both to stop drinking altogether.
Hopefully your mum will think over what you have said and make an effort for your sake. It's one thing having a few drinks as a family at Christmas but quite another when in charge of your little ds. This might be a good opportunity to 'test' them. You will be nearby and able to get home quickly. But- you've got to be prepared that if there is a problem, however trivial, you then (presumably) have to spend Christmas with them afterwards.

This is a good point actually e.g if things go Pete Tong then I am due to spend 3 or 4 more nights with them at a very "tempting" time of the year. Mmmmm not sure I actually want to take the risk of things not being good, as I have pretty low confidence in them, and maybe a test ground at another time would be better.

Perhaps Reds and I should think again, or wait until Dec 24 when my brother is home and will be more than capable to keep an eye on my Ds.

Thanks for raising this.

Speaking as a p*sshead of no mean renown myself (couple of gins & a bottle of wine? Sounds very civilised!) I have to say I think you're absolutely right not to allow your parents to babysit if they're going to booze while they're doing it - if I'm having a few dh doesn't, & vice versa, & neither of us would drink if we were babysitting someone else's child.

You've done all you possibly can - you've tried to discuss it with your mother & got a less than positive response. I reckon you should just quietly make other arrangements, & if she raises the subject again just reiterate what you've already said to her - but leave the ball very firmly in her court - she can come to you if & when she IS ready to agree to follow your rules. It's hardly unreasonable to say 'please don't get plastered while you're looking after my child!'

go on shoot us............

go on shoot us............

go on shoot us............

go on shoot us............

go on shoot us............

hahahahahah

Dear Chepstow1,
I hate to say this but frankly, just don't leave your DS with them, as the responsible adults,in the evening.
I hear you trying to be so fair and unjudgemental but can you balance their needs to be active grandparents with what you know is really safe? My Dad was an alcoholic, of "Ab Fab" proportions and scenarios, and the hardest thing is when you can't make another person see sense. Sadly, until someone wants to do something about their drinking, there is little you can do. It sounds like both you and your brother have been there and done that already. You have expressed concern, offered help, and fronted them with your worries for them.
You clearly have loads of ways of dealing with the situation - going out at different times, taking them with you - so until they offer to babysit and not drink, I wouldn't instigate it. If you give them another chance right now, will you be able to relax, given the circumstances?
Hold onto the positives about them - you clearly love and appreciate them but the safety of your DS has to come first.

Just one more thing - you only need one accident to have a dead or injured child. And if that accident happens when you're giving your parents their "last chance", you'll wish you hadn't given them a last chance.

Sorry to be such a wet blanket, I know you're trying so hard to be fair to your parents, but I don't think they'll try as hard to be fair to you and your DS. I also think you're dreading the showdown that looks like it might be inevitable, so you're coming up with a last chance scenario in the hope that you can avoid that inevitable showdown. But what I suspect will happen, is that they'll steer just this side of the line, so you won't be actively happy about the situation, but you'll feel unreasonable and unfair about changing it, and you'll be held in this uncertain limbo for a lot longer. The "moderate" drinking thing is a really difficult one - how are you going to police it without looking like a Gestapo interrogator? How d'you know your parents won't lie? Do you think the relationship will be more comfortable with you asking them how much they've had to drink than with you just not using them for babysitting to begin with?

I'm not being negative for the sake of it, just throwing some more thoughts into the ring that will help you make a decision. Whatever you decide, good luck with it, it's an awful situation for you.