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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Cheating

27 replies

Scrambolini · 13/08/2023 13:22

I have just got off the phone to a dear old friend who is heart-broken and I am heart-broken for her. She has been married for around ten years (I forget exactly how long) and she and her husband have two kids in primary school.

About six weeks ago my friend's husband told her out of the blue that the marriage was over. In trying to make sense of what he was saying to her, she asked him if there was anyone else and he said no. She was so shell-shocked and devastated, and she needed some time out to process things, so she went to stay with her parents (who live in another country) for a few weeks.

About ten days before the bombshell conversation they had gone to a party and the husband met and starting chatting to a woman at that party. As soon as my friend left the country he started seeing the woman from the party. My friend obviously knew nothing about this. When she got back she came across photographs and it all came out.

The AMAZING thing is that my friend's husband thinks he has done nothing wrong. His justification is that it's not cheating because he had already told her the marriage was over. To add insult to injury, he says that she should move out, rather than him. She has no family in the city (or even the country!) where they live and moved there to be with him.

It's absolutely incredible that he can justify his behaviour in this way. I'm posting this because I'm looking for validation for my dear friend, who is in such a state that she is in danger of being taken in by his skewed moral code.

OP posts:
GoodChat · 13/08/2023 13:24

The relationship is over. He's told her it's over. She needs to accept this and start divorce proceedings.

Original poster
Scrambolini · 13/08/2023 13:28

GoodChat · 13/08/2023 13:24

The relationship is over. He's told her it's over. She needs to accept this and start divorce proceedings.

She knows it's over. What she's not getting is that his behaviour is unjustifiable. I'm trying to get her to see is that it's not less bad because he did it after declaring that the relationship was over.

OP posts:
GoodChat · 13/08/2023 13:30

Surely it's better that they go through the separation on amicable terms? It'll be easier for her that way.

RandomForest · 13/08/2023 13:32

Yes he has cheated and no she should not move out of the house on his say so.

She needs to file for divorce, live as a separated couple, not do anything for him and make sure he parents his children equally.

He sounds a complete cunt.

BigPussyEnergy · 13/08/2023 13:35

He’ll have had this one lined up before he told her. So yes, definitely emotional cheating if he felt strongly enough about her to split up his marriage, and if not, then hugely in sensitive to move on at such lightning speed.

Obviously the best thing for her is to try and detach, get her ducks in a row etc but this will be hard as she’ll still be in shock so I’m glad she has you there to support her. Maybe don’t worry too much about the morality of this new relationship of his, just try to help her practically and emotionally to keep stable while she sorts it all out.

Redannie118 · 13/08/2023 13:41

From a legal standpoint its still adultery. They were still legally married wether he said it was over or not. If he wants a no fault divorce, he is in for a shock. I also dont believe for a second he dumped her on the off chance a woman he had met for a couple of hours once would want to run off into the sunset. She needs to find her anger and get some good legal advice.

category12 · 13/08/2023 13:48

Lots of doubt about his new relationship being new and not overlapping.

Your friend should stay put for now. I presume if she moved to be with him, now the relationship is over that she probably won't want to stay in the long run - but she needs to hang on and make sure she gets her fair share of the marital assets.

Plus why should she make it easy for him to just move in his next woman? Nah.

MissJoGrant · 13/08/2023 14:06

Redannie118 · 13/08/2023 13:41

From a legal standpoint its still adultery. They were still legally married wether he said it was over or not. If he wants a no fault divorce, he is in for a shock. I also dont believe for a second he dumped her on the off chance a woman he had met for a couple of hours once would want to run off into the sunset. She needs to find her anger and get some good legal advice.

As I understand it, unless OP's friend lives outside the UK, there's no 'fault' apportioned in divorce.

Epidote · 13/08/2023 14:20

I wouldn't bother about if he slept with the OW before, during or after. I would be focusing in getting finances sorted.
Understand she is hurt, but the reality doesn't change for a couple of days before or after.

Didsomeonesaydogs · 13/08/2023 14:58

That’s despicable.

What I have learnt is that all cheaters see themselves as different to everybody else. Their circumstances are unlike any other cheater that went before them, others have excuses but they have real reasons, and they were totally justified to do what they did. Everyone else who cheats is evil scum but they get a super special pass to cheat because they are Exceptional People™. They’re the real victims here.

I have no doubt this is what they all believe. They all work from the same playbook.

Your friend needs to stop wifing for him and consult a solicitor.

BlastedPimples · 13/08/2023 15:02

Lol at posters who think this bloke didn't have this ow lined up for weeks even months before.

Yep, the bloke is a toe rag. There are lots of toe rags in this world who seek to justify this, that or the other vile behaviour.

Op, your friend needs to be steely now. He's shown himself for what he is and she should consult a solicitor asap. And not leave the house.

It's really hard when you've had a shock like this to even function properly sometimes but she really needs to make sure she is represented and treated fairly in the divorce.

CuppaCoffeeandCake · 13/08/2023 15:28

That’s correct. All divorce in the UK is now no fault. Adultery doesn’t matter from a legal perspective.

Specso · 13/08/2023 15:32

He can get a no fault divorce. If one person in the marriage says it’s over then it’s over.

Dery · 13/08/2023 15:50

Her STBXH is an arsehole but that’s irrelevant. Indeed, in the long-term, it will help her realise how much better off she is without him. The practicalities are the most important thing now. As to who leaves: this is his choice so he should move out. Or, if he can’t, they share until the house is sold or she buys him out or similar.

Original poster
Scrambolini · 13/08/2023 18:48

Thank you all for the responses. My friend is in Germany and I don't know about the fault or no fault divorce position there. She needs to get advice for sure.

OP posts:
Original poster
Scrambolini · 13/08/2023 18:49

PS It's really good to get this validation!

OP posts:
NoraButty · 13/08/2023 19:05

Is your friend British, living in Germany? Is he German or is it a military base? No need to reply but it may be relevant.

Your friend needs to find out what, if anything, leaving the marital home means for her, and the children.

Is he proposing she takes the children with her? If she left them would this be seen as abandonment? Is it a mortgaged home, rented or military? is there equity or debts?

So many variables.

Ideally, both her and the children should leave him, the house and the country but she needs to know the ramifications of doing this. It would be good for her wellbeing short term but long term, would this bite her on the ass!

Original poster
Scrambolini · 13/08/2023 19:31

NoraButty · 13/08/2023 19:05

Is your friend British, living in Germany? Is he German or is it a military base? No need to reply but it may be relevant.

Your friend needs to find out what, if anything, leaving the marital home means for her, and the children.

Is he proposing she takes the children with her? If she left them would this be seen as abandonment? Is it a mortgaged home, rented or military? is there equity or debts?

So many variables.

Ideally, both her and the children should leave him, the house and the country but she needs to know the ramifications of doing this. It would be good for her wellbeing short term but long term, would this bite her on the ass!

She's British and has German permanent residency. She's married under German law and her kids were born in Germany. Her husband is German - they met in the UK and she moved there for him. They own a flat together which is mortgaged.

OP posts:
Dotcheck · 13/08/2023 19:33

GoodChat · 13/08/2023 13:24

The relationship is over. He's told her it's over. She needs to accept this and start divorce proceedings.

I think it’s normal to be shocked, hurt, and need time to process it

Original poster
Scrambolini · 13/08/2023 19:33

Correction - have just remembered that they met when she was on a work trip to Germany and she ended up moving there to be with him. So he has never lived in the UK. Not that that makes a difference, it's just that I'm so pissed off on her behalf because she uprooted her whole life for this relationship.

OP posts:
GoodChat · 13/08/2023 19:56

@Dotcheck you're right with all of those things, but this thread reads to me (now, since the updates) like she's accepting it and OP wants her to be more upset and angry than she is/needs to be.

Original poster
Scrambolini · 13/08/2023 20:23

It's exactly as @Dotcheck says. She is shocked, hurt - deeply hurt, I have never seen her so distressed, we have been friends for 38 years, and it pains me enormously to see her like this - and absolutely needing time to process it. Plus she's having to be strong for her kids.

OP posts:
BlastedPimples · 13/08/2023 21:51

@GoodChat the op wants her friend to be more upset than she is / needs to be?

What a very strange post.

How do you know 1. What the op wants and 2. exactly how her poor friend is feeling?

Not everyone is a robot, able to instantly swing into action mode, you know.

If only we all had the the powers of insight that you have into the motives of strangers on the internet.

GoodChat · 13/08/2023 22:34

BlastedPimples · 13/08/2023 21:51

@GoodChat the op wants her friend to be more upset than she is / needs to be?

What a very strange post.

How do you know 1. What the op wants and 2. exactly how her poor friend is feeling?

Not everyone is a robot, able to instantly swing into action mode, you know.

If only we all had the the powers of insight that you have into the motives of strangers on the internet.

The OP said this What she's not getting is that his behaviour is unjustifiable. I'm trying to get her to see is that it's not less bad because he did it after declaring that the relationship was over.

The friend doesn't need to be told his behaviour is unacceptable or unjustifiable. She needs people she can lean on. Not people trying to make the situation worse.

BlastedPimples · 13/08/2023 23:05

It's better the situation is recognised for exactly what it is. So that appropriate action can be taken and no turning back.

That is what the op is saying. To recognise it not make it worse. You can't make reality worse by recognising it.