Do controlling abusers always know they are controlling abusers?

[Toomuchdinner]

On the verge of splitting with DH. I have only extremely negative feelings towards him.

He is controlling, aggressive, self absorbed, I think possibly abusive…I could go on.

The reaction of friends and family to the news I am leaving him makes it clear that they all feel the same way about him.

Basically I made a huge mistake and married a total arsehole. They all hate him. Really really hate him.

The thing that I’m finding difficult is his total denial that he is anything less than perfect. And he’s not lying, he genuinely thinks he’s wonderful , and that everyone else thinks he’s wonderful.

His lack of self awareness is staggering.

I’m not saying he has to hate himself, but he keeps demanding I give him reasons why I want to leave.

so I mention some of his terrible behaviour, and he is really confused- he just doesn’t understand or agree. I know him, he honestly isn’t pretending or conniving.

i think he has something fundamentally wrong with him.

has anyone else experienced this?

I feel so strong and certain when I’m on my own or talking to other people. But when him talking to him about the split it’s like I’m in a parallel universe and I doubt my sanity.

I think really it’s him who is insane

It does not matter who is or isn't insane (maybe neither) but you are unhappy and you must unshackle yourself from him and build a new and better life. You do not have to question your judgement - this is him messing with your head. You just have to know he is not the the right person to spend the rest of your life with and plan accordingly.

This kind of denial is what helps him maintain his behaviour. If he began to have some insight into it then that would risk his whole MO.

It’s likely that an abusive relationship also feels like love to him. He needs the highs and lows of the nervous system that come with this kind of relationship. A steady relationship without drama wouldn’t feel like love to him.

Sorry you're experiencing this, it's insane.

In my experience yes they do deep down but they cannot admit it because then they would be in the wrong and that goes against everything they see in themselves. Everyone else is wrong but especially their partner in relationships who usually gets the brunt.

They wrap themselves in this illusion of them being perfect yet their behavior and actions say otherwise and no amount of trying to get through works, it's just deflected back at you or twisted in some way.

Sounds like NPD.
Truly they have zero insight or self awareness.
It's a grandiose ego basically, they truly believe they are the most amazing, perfect person on the planet and should get special treatment as a result.
It's characterised by huge tantrums and aggressive behaviour if they don't get immediate compliance.
My father had absolutely no insight, he could be absolutely charming, often too much, but everything he did was to his own advantage.
Very manipulative.

Zero point in discussing anything he did, he will die believing he is a perfect person and you are wrong.
Walk away

Yes and if it is NPD which I think mine is, run. Mine was abusive and you cannot live with them peacefully it does not compute. Controlling, coercive, manipulative, abusive, aggressive and violent.

They are basically imposters, no empathy, guilt or remorse and the person they truly are is not nice. Yet still they are perfect, flawless they fool everyone and they will at some point drop the facade to you and do everything in their power to ruin you and become the victim to everyone else.

@JibbaJab

no amount of trying to get through works, it's just deflected back at you or twisted in some way.

yes, what you said above is exactly my experience.

nothing I say ever ever sinks in. So in the end I stopped saying it.

And that is his fallback position - that it’s my fault if his behaviour has made me unhappy because I didn’t make it clear enough to him at the time that his behaviour was unacceptable.

He’s not being deliberately manipulative when he says that, it’s almost worse in that he actually believes he’s being reasonable.

“how was I to know that refusing to leave the pub when you went into labour would upset you? I only had a couple of pints “ etc

even writing this down is helpful to me as I see how utterly wrong it all is

It's phycological and emotional abuse, it totally breaks you down. That's the whole point of it, you are talking to a wall that does not want to listen to your point of view because they don't agree nor do they see anything wrong.

So after a while you start thinking, well not so bad in other ways, it's not consistent...maybe it's not on purpose, maybe things will be okay eventually. It makes you doubt everything from your reality to yourself to the point you just don't say anything any more. That is the aim. You are in your box, that is where you belongs and they can do whatever.

What you may find is, you can't do whatever though, everything is ran past them or you are always thinking of their reaction. You can never be right, there's always a defense they never just say 'yeah sorry that was shitty of me'.

I had this with my wife it never ended, every day something. I never knew what was coming, what mood was in or what I had done.

No way would I be out drinking while in labour, I don't drink anyway but that's beside the point. Even a child could understand that's not right.

Their personality type you describe is incredibly rigid and pervasive almost impervious to change. They do know they are being abusive and controlling yes but from my experience they operate a balance sheet type of mentality which only requires that on balance they are good people. So any good thing they do wipes out the abuse and you need to always see them as good always even when they are doing bad. They don’t understand that others try to never, ever be abusive as an aspiration.

It's called gaslighting OP. Narcissists tool.

You don't need to justify anything. Congratulations on making the decision to leave.

OP. This sounds like my partner. He's just too perfect to be wrong. Never says sorry, saying sorry is a weakness!

He will spin you the "you will never get better than me" All problems will become YOUR problems, feelings will be YOUR feeling, he will completely project all of his wrong doings onto you for perceiving them as wrong doings.

Mine too went out to a friends house while I was in labour with our first baby, then after birth he went to the pub while I was in hospital so couldn't drive to me when I needed more clothes as I had to stay in.

Then told me minutes after I'd given birth to our second that he doesn't feel happy feelings about our new baby and he doesn't feel right and made me feel like utter shit because I was worried he was sad about our beautiful new boy. He dotes in him now though!

I had Counselling a few years ago due to anxiety that was brought on by a stressful health situation over my then baby boy. I went weekly for months learning about strategies to help to control feeling of anxiety etc ... he swears blind that's not true, I never had counselling and thinks I mustn't had told him.

All of this happens while also being so loving which makes it all the more confusing.

I'm not out yet, I have only just opened my eyes to what has been happening over the years.

Get out while you can and never look back xx

@becauseicanthatswhy What an arsehole, sorry.

That's what it is though, some are worse than others but it's intermittent reinforcement. It's a cycle of love/nice and uncaring/hate and you get addicted to that cycle. Your gut is saying this isn't right or normal and your head is saying, well they ain't always bad.

@Cosycatz

they operate a balance sheet type of mentality which only requires that on balance they are good people. So any good thing they do wipes out the abuse and you need to always see them as good always even when they are doing bad.

yes, yes! This is really good explanation

So when I say “you threw a bunch of my possessions in the bin“

He first looks puzzled and says “but they took up too much room in the wardrobe “.

then I try and explain that its disrespectful, controlling behaviour etc and I’ve loads of other examples, and it’s like I’m speaking in a foreign language and he”ll say

“It just doesn’t justify the end of our marriage. I always have your back, who else will have your back? I’m a good person” etc etc

he see what he wants to see, and I should too

@Toomuchdinner "I'm a good person" 😂 that line! "I'm a good person, stop trying to make out I'm not, I know I'm a good person, you won't get any one better than me, no one would put up with your shit!"

Thant my DPs favourite, quite a common one with others too lol

Controlling abusers believe that they are right. That's it, no argument. So I doubt they see themselves as others do and probably disbelieve people who point it out to them because those people are wrong. So good luck with changing someone's behaviour, it's very unlikely that will happen.

@Toomuchdinner Yeah there's no consideration it doesn't come into it. You try throwing his stuff out though, see the difference in reaction.

With mine I could do something nice for them and an hour later be raged at for not caring about them. Or, I would get raged at over something, be to blame with absolute venom and then an hour later be accused of not caring or nice to them.

I also had the possessions things all my things were dispensable but they horded all of their stuff which was actually junk that they never knew existed after so long. Couldn't throw it away though

there is always a reason for their behaviour, you are always wrong and/or the unreasonable one, they completely lack self-awareness. This is why the break up feels to them totally out of the blue and inexplicable.

he will likely not get it no matter what you say and will probably suggest you’re having a break down or similar. Just get out. You can’t say anything that will make them see or understand.

My ex partner was abusive and controlling. I ended up in therapy which enabled me to leave him. Funnily enough he was the one who suggested I needed therapy! He genuinely had no idea that his behaviour was the issue and he thought that there was something wrong with me. My therapist made me realise that my behaviour was as a result of his abuse, and although she couldn't say for sure, she strongly suspected he had NPD. This didn't excuse his behaviour, but she made me realise that this was who he was. She said you can either put up with it using coping strategies or leave, but you'll never be truly happy in a relationship with a man like that because you have to for ever be on guard to keep yourself mentally, emotionally and physically safe. I tried to make it work for a while before I realised he wasn't worth the effort and I needed to look after myself.

I’m not saying he has to hate himself, but he keeps demanding I give him reasons why I want to leave.

Don't bother giving him explanations or reasons, he won't accept them because he's never wrong. Unless you are at risk of him turning violent, try saying to him 'I don't like you.' If he demands further info don't expand on it, just repeat it. ' I don't like being around you, I don't like trying to talk to you. This isn't working for me.'

Have you tried to estimate what he'd score on the Hare Psychopathy Checklist?
I think it would be revealing.

here is always a reason for their behaviour, you are always wrong and/or the unreasonable one, they completely lack self-awareness. This is why the break up feels to them totally out of the blue and inexplicable.

he will likely not get it no matter what you say and will probably suggest you’re having a break down or similar.

@thecatinthetwat

God yes. He’s already said that he thinks I’m having a breakdown.

but I think I’m finally seeing things clearly

Do you call it out right there and the ? Then he has no excuse of not remembering as it has just happened. I would give him examples as they happen

It's not worth it. You're better off just ending it. You don't need to prove to him that he's a shithead who's making you miserable because r he fact that he is doing that is reason enough. And if he doesn't get it (he most probably does but doesn't want you to know that) that's just tough for him.

@TheShellBeach

ive never heard of that but I’ll take a look, thanks

@JibbaJab if the sex wasn’t different, I’d swear we were married to the same person!
the hoarding of his possessions vs the constant disrespect shown towards anything that is mine or given by my friends and relatives. But he’ll never see it

I suspect most abusers don't think of themselves as an abuser in a Dick Dastardly way, rubbing their hands and thinking, "Now I'm going to do something really abusive". Rather, their baseline of what constitutes a normal non-abusive relationship is just way off and not open to change due to their rigid personality type. This might be due to their personality type (or a personality disorder such a NPD) or it might be due to upbringing- if your first experience of a relationship is an abusive one, and your natural personality is rigid and inflexible, what you think of as normal will inevitably be some way off.

@Toomuchdinner It does seem that way doesn't it. Mine regularly threw gifts away because they didn't like them and did the same for the children too. Someone would buy the children a gift, pretend it was okay and soon as gone would go in the bin.

In my case mine is so delusional and vindictive with it, in order to avoid responsibility they discarded me, have turned into someone else entirely and rewritten our past and events. The person I have been living with is no more, a new character has been created.