Expected to lower boundaries with a narc due to "perceived" illness

[Wonkie]

I have not seen my MIL in 3 years. After 10 years, I became fed up of the disrespect, passive aggression and persistent critical comments. Life has felt lovely since, although it almost tore my marriage apart at the time. DH still sees her and so do the GCs.

Then a few weeks ago, there was a sudden and unexpected expectation, not even a request, for me to be in MILs company at a party that I was organising for my child. I was thrown by it. DH seemed surprised that I said no! I felt the need to go over all the reasons I was NC all over again, much to my own distress. DH denied some of the events I discussed with him, said they had never happened, even after admitting that they had 3 years previously... I was stumped and very upset.

I did not spend the time in her company thankfully, but during a discussion since, DH has informed me that him and his father believe she has dementia. I asked if she had been to see the GP... no. Have they spoken to her about it? No.

He was visibly upset and seemed to have huge waves of empathy that I have never seen him have, not to myself or either of our children. It is clearly affecting him a lot, but I have these boundaries for a reason. And cynically, part of me even wonders if she's playing on this. It's something she would do for attention. I asked him if she is still functioning in her voluntary roles and social groups which she's very prevalent in and he says she is and that it mainly just affects her at home and during conversations.

I don't know what to think or what to do here? I believe that once again, I'll be the arsehole like I was considered last time by his father and his sibling for maintaining my distance. I don't know if my marriage can survive this again. Do I lower my boundaries and be in her company again? I can't think of anything worse. She apparently has no desire to reconcile but is happy to "ignore" me so that she can attend our childrens birthdays which everyone seems to think is ok! Help.

Keep your boundaries. Perhaps once she had actually been to see someone and been told it’s dementia then you could reconsider, but even then I wouldnt

her behaviour has got her to the place she misses out on birthday parties and that’s what I would be telling your husband. Who cares what your FIL or your husband sibling thinks. Your health comes first, just go NC with them as well

Genuinely makes me consider leaving my husband @Tinkerbyebye . I don't understand the hold his mother has over him. It's always been the same. He'll upset anyone before he upsets her. He seems to have more empathy for her than ever now and I can already see the resentment will build towards me eventually for continuing NC.

Very tough for you and for him.

Her narcissism could be exactly what she has over him.

You are right to hold your boundaries. It’s bad for your DCs to see you being treated badly or ignored.

If she still managers her social life, this is a device. Hold fast.

People with dementia can say hurtful things, as the filters seem to disappear. You still need your boundaries, but they shift, and at least there may be an explanation for their behaviour. I can understand your partner's empathy, as it is a very moving condition for close relatives and friends. I had a dreadful relationship with my dad but when he got dementia, this ceased to be relevant really.

...also I do miss him now he's gone. Different perspective I suppose.

Do not lower your boundaries. Narcissists get worse with age as the authority figures they fear have died off.

You can't turn dementia on and off

And the initial issues were 10 years ago?

I call bullshit

Dementia and narcissism are two totally different things

A health crisis that will give her free reign to be rude and hurtful?

Straight out the script that one.

Dementia does that

I’m very aware of dementia. I lived with it for nearly 15 years in tbt same house of my Nana.

A manufactured health crisis is also straight out of the textbook for ending NC.

The OP is very correct to keep her guards high

She's his mother. She might be an absolute arse hole and you're right to keep your boundaries BUT she has a hold over him because our parents tend to do so. We want to be loved and approved of by them.

Your MIL was once young and abusive, now she is old and abusive.

This is a ploy for attention given that she’s only like this at home. I note too that her husband and son have not discussed this at all with the GP.

Your husband has received the special training and he really does believe the sky will fall in on him if mother is upset. He has been taught to put his needs dead last with hers first.

'When she has a formal diagnosis I will reconsider my position, until then, nothing has changed'

Nope… don’t play this game with either of them. I’m in a similar boat. I won’t even discuss his mum. I’ve been diagnosed with a degenerative heart condition that needs surgery fairly soon and I’m scared shitless. He’s focused on her type 2 diabetes that is a result of over-eating, drinking too much and not helped at all by her incessant smoking. She has no interest in changing her ways. I have no interest in hearing about the bitch that called our (then) 12 year old daughter a slut and sent our (then)10 year old twins $50 and $5 in their birthday cards because she plays favourites. He has changed that history. (But they all hate her and so does his brother.)

Whether or not she has dementia won't change the fact that she is/was abusive. She doesn't want to reconcile, and nor do you, so there's nothing to be gained from attempting reconciliation. And it's likey that any attempts you make will be seen as a win by her (dementia or not) and make things much worse.

So I wouldn't change your NC.

Of course, if it was dementia, then you would want to support your husband and children as it will affect them no doubt. You can do that without changing your (non) relationship with MIL. Depending on your children's ages (sorry, forgotten if you said) you can be honest about your reasons for NC, but explain that you know dementia is a cruel illness, and you will be there to support them.

As for your relationship with your husband, it may be that his actions mean you can no longer respect him / no longer feel respected / no longer feel loved. If he changes your history, refuses to acknowledge things she did that really hurt you, turns her in to a martyr who's been wronged by you - I'm not sure how you could stay married to him.

You really can’t see why he has empathy for his mother who he thinks might have an awful disease?

People reconcile all the time and forgive awful situations when they find out someone is seriously ill. It doesn’t make your husband weak or unloving of you it makes him human.

That doesn’t make you obliged to forgive or see her if you don’t want to. The fact that you think she’s horrible enough she might be faking dementia really says a lot about your opinion of her, I don’t think I could be friendly with someone I thought could do that!

The fact that I could imagine she might fake dementia says more about her than it does about me. She's played enough silly games over the years @Abergale that it isn't out of the scope of possibility.

Yes I would definitely support my husband and the children @perfectcolourfound but my boundaries would need to remain. Him denying history has been pretty horrible to digest, particularly after he admitted her wrong doing infront of a therapist 3 years ago. He blocks out anything he doesn't like and it feels like we're now back to square one.

@roarrfeckingroar
"you're right to keep your boundaries BUT she has a hold over him because our parents tend to do so. We want to be loved and approved of by them"

This isn't a healthy perception of parent child relationships. My parents love me unconditionally, I don't need their approval and neither should you or anyone else.

She has no bloody diagnosis. Your DH is gaslighting you.

I'm seeing so many similarities to my then situation @Wonkie . My MIL did something that there was no coming back from and my husband just walked away and carried on his day as if nothing had happened. When I asked him why he didn't at least stand up for me he said it was to protect his inheritance. I now know it was to protect himself, from her. She was the one who raised him. He turned out to be the same. Like @AttilaTheMeerkat said they both got worse as they got older.

Having experienced what you have already with this family I would be very careful about accepting the dementia thing. It may be true, it may not. They are very good at weaponising anything that'll get them what they want. It will suit her fine to be invited to your children's parties and ignore you. She would much rather that than be pleasant to you. Your husband's waves of empathy for her but not you or your children also speaks volumes.

He is protecting himself, why shouldn't you protect yourself?

Very true @QuintessentiallyScottish he is protecting himself I guess. Although I often wonder why protecting himself means to protect her rather than us (his chosen family). I don't get it.

I am starting to think they're all one of a kind tbh. I can't stop thinking about leaving him since his comments about my experiences not being true.

He's also told me that he thinks that the DCs are horrible to her. They are 6 and 8. Apparently they tell her to stop repeating herself a lot and tell her to leave them alone. They obviously know I won't see her which must affect how they feel about her and I'm starting to think that he now blames me for their intolerance of her. I know however that they find her behaviour quite difficult from what they have told me. My eldest child says that she will argue with her about trivial things. MIL is very childlike in nature so I can believe this. She apparently also plays them off against their cousins declaring that the cousins love her more than they do. But again, DH is much more concerned about how they are with MIL rather than how she is with them. In 12 years, he's never once held her to account for anything. He's often used the phrase "she can't help it" even before all the dementia stuff came out.

I don't get it.

They don't think the same as 'normal' people. We're not supposed to get it because then they can't blindside us. It's very telling that he's more worried about your children's behaviour towards his mother than hers towards them.

"She can't help it" = shut up. Blaming you for anything is easier than accepting what he perceives as a difficult truth or, heaven forbid, doing something about it. He's doing whatever he needs to do to make his life easier. That's understandable because once you 'offend' (they'll take offense at the most ridiculous things) these people they'll do what they can to make you unhappy. But it shouldn't be at the cost of his wife's happiness, he doesn't even seem to be making the effort to be appearing to support you.