Mother in law, that is a mother of sons, help

[KJ1992]

I am not overly sure why I wanted to share this, I guess I am looking for some genuine feedback. I am on a journey of self awareness myself so I am really up for seeing things from my MIL point of view. My patience is wearing thin after years of it, but I am trying.

Situation history:

• I met my partner at school, we were on and off until I got with my first permanent bf when I was 17/18, whom I went onto have a child with at 19
• We broke up at 21, and I moved back to my hometown (where current partner lived)
• We got together (2016) and have been together since, we went on to have a daughter in 2018 and thats when the real issues with MIL started, her first Grandchild just set her off
• By Christmas of 2018 (had daughter in Jan), I was for the first time at my wits end with the explosive reactions, slagging me off to my relatives, making unfair digs and being distant and moody. So I sent her a message that was very warm but explained how I was feeling. I guess looking back should I have done it face to face, yes, but she had been so moody and snappy I was intimated. Partner was upset that I was upset, but it became clear he was scared to hold her accountable for her actions due to her explosive reactions / defensiveness. His whole life it turned out him and his brother had walked on egg shells not to upset her.
• She summoned me round to discuss the message and when I arrived I explained how I hope we can have the relationship were if either are upset we can talk it through, not the digs / frosty atmosphere / back biting etc. This is where I first spotted the narcissism. She was not willing to listen to a single thing she had done wrong, she told me how dare I speak to her like this, she went on to tell me a story of how one of her friends had upset her and she had 'filled her in'. So I retreated, I plastered over it and tried to move on.
• As you can imagine these circumstances just carried on happening, as she felt she wanted to control our little family. As I gently pushed against it her anger turned towards my Mum. My Mum had welcomed her with open arms and they would even go out drinking as couples, she even went to my Mums for NYE 31/12/18. So we were shocked when the comments about my Mum started. Each time I would spend time with my Mum she would take the huff, and even have ago to my partner about it. But as you can imagine the more she did this the less time I wanted to spend with her, so after many arguments in our home he (being my partner) said he would to speak to her about it and get it cleared up (mid 2019).
• He did bless him, go to see her armed with what he hoped would be the conversation to end all of this, and he was met again with an explosion. She would not hear of it that she was being that way, and quickly came out with pure delusions that my Mum was taking her Son off her. Not me? My Mum?
• Now there isn't enough time today to sit here and give an account of each thing she did or said after this, but it just hasn't stopped since. Last year (2022) we started with a couples therapist to help us navigate it, and some other issues we have (no one grows up without some sort of scars do they). But unfortunately the sessions are just about her most of the time. Partner has now seen the reasons he is like he is, and sees the trauma she's caused growing up and what upset and pressure she is putting on our relationship now.
• With all the years of this in March of this year (23) I decided to go no contact with her, I was getting near panic attacks are her latest blow up and needed to self preserve. He was totally behind me doing this, and I stressed how it wasn't to be known by the kids or effect her relationship with them (because she is a good Grannie - she really is).
• Now in Aug 23 we are feeling quite heeled as a couple and ready to book our wedding (engaged in 22 and she caused a mass upset at the engagement party no shock there though!). With this in mind partner went to see her RE trying to draw a line on all this drama so me and her and her could start fresh. I will in the wedding bubble so was willing to put the past behind us and look forward. She wasn't as defensive as previous conversations so he felt hopeful, and we agreed to meet at the weekend at someones house casually so it was not awkward.
• Weekend came, we arrived with the children at the relatives house and she did not appear. The house phone rang and she asked for my partner, she then went into an explosive rant about me. Again a really delusion situation that very much made the narrative I am horrible and she is this poor victim. He hung up and we left, he looked wiped out and drained with the start of another drama. The onset of massive ranty texts had started and it was just awful. She also knew we was due to see wedding venues this weekend and was excited, well that excitement was just gone.
• I decided to speak up, as I hadn't since 2018, and I sent the nicest message you have ever read to someone who has treat us like this for years. She came back with that no one makes her feel as low as I do, and she wants to go to sleep and never wake up. So obviously I was freaking out that she was going to do something stupid, I got partner to message his Dad and he said she was staying at her sisters. Partner then admitted it was not the first time she had made reference to ending her life when things are not going her way!! I could not believe it!!
• At midnight she text him saying 'I will love you forever, don't forget it' or something to that effect. He jumped out of bed and text her asking where she was, she was reading the messages and not replying. So he called her, she was very drunk and actually sounded fairly remorseful. She said she wants a relationship with me, and she will apologise for things she's said about me in the past etc. He said she was repeating herself and clearly safe so he said goodnight and ended the call.
• Sunday morning we were feeling hopeful after that call, and was going to approach for a meeting to sort this. We were going to leave her to sleep it off and speak to her after the wedding venue viewing we had booked. She sent a huge and not nice text to me proving that she has was not listening to any points we have raised and is still very much in the belief she is a victim and I am 'stamping all over her' as she put it.

I guess if you have got this far into my vent/rant/out pour you will be maybe willing to give me some advice. I want to walk away and never speak to her again, but then again the family orientated part of me wants to fix it all even after all she's done. She is very much a textbook 'mother of sons' and I am just at an absolute loss :(

So was quite a long post so I did skim a bit.

I think for your own sanity you need to step back.

You don't need to be involved with her at all and I certainly wouldn't want my child involved with someone who is so toxic - one day she'll start on her.

You and your DP are adults and can choose who you want in your lives. Read on of FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).

Just because she's him does not give her the right to treat you this way.

She continues to do it because you both allow it.

Walk away from her and keep your children away from her too. Nothing good comes of having any form of contact with her. You would not tolerate what she’s done from a friend, his mother is no different. You have likely come from an emotionally healthy family unit, your partner has clearly not been so lucky.

The “normal” rules of familial relations go out the window when it comes to such disordered of thinking people like his mother so there is really nothing to fix. It would also require her cooperation and you’re not going to get that for her. People like his mother never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. Do read Toxic in-laws by Susan Forward.

One day I will be a MIL (have 2 boys) and I hope I will be nothing like her. She cannot be a text book mother of sons. She sounds awful. Step away, get married without her and disengage from her toxicity.

Nothing to do with "Mothers of Sons" and all to do with narcissists from hell ! Sorry you are dealing with such a monster.

Wow, you must know some really really dreadful mothers of sons!! This is absolutely not textbook to most people, by a long way! But perhaps that explains why you're working so hard to have this woman involved in your and your children's lives? She's not a good granny. She's a terrible example, manipulative, nasty. You and your partner need to step back and protect your kids from her toxicity. Don't teach the next generation that this is what mothers of boys are like!

Sorry, a few random words popped in there!

So = sorry
on of = up on

She sounds awful. I would continue with no contact and that would include the wedding

You should have called the police on her when she threatened suicide. It'll make her think again.

From my own similar experience but with my own mother, cut contact. It was the best thing I've ever done and I wish I'd done it sooner. She's shown you both many times she won't change. That's on her.

I’m the mother of sons and I’m not remotely like the MIL you’ve described. She’s a narcissist lunatic who has scarred her boys for life by making them walk on eggshells so that she doesn’t blow up. She’s lucky she’s still got them in her life.

What is a textbook moter of boys?
🤔

She sounds unhinged but wexare only hearing one side of the story.

I'd back right away and let her do her thing. If she starts ranting on the phone, end the conversation.

I’m a mother of sons and would never do any of this madness. I’ve seen this behaviour from people of all different lives from young childless women, to middle aged men, to mothers of daughters and everything in between. It’s narcissism and probably comes from some trauma of their own. Who knows why she is the way that she is, but I would cut all contact including with the kids. She’s not a decent human being, and if she really is a narcissist (do some googling on it) then the kids will be being manipulated on some level anyway - or be in the queue to being her next victims. Go no contact for your sanity. Someone this toxic is not capable of changing their ways for a wedding, that’s exactly the fuel narcs need, big importance events to screw up is like their bread and butter. The first inkling I had that my EXH was a narcissist was reading something about how they always fuck up birthdays/Christmas/important events and that started ringing bells.

She would revel in ruining the wedding to make it all about her. That’s what these toxic people do.

This woman sounds dreadful. I had a slight touch of that with my MIL, I married her first born son and boy howdy did I have some job trying to come round her. I know how you must be feeling. This woman is obviously jealous of you, but seems to be narky with life if her son says it was walking on eggshells growing up. Her threats are there so that everyone will stay rowing her boat in her direction. Sadly I don’t think she will change. I know she is a good grannie to your children, but does this mean you and your husband need to see her more than you’d like? Does it give her the chance to snipe at your husband when he comes round with the kids? I think you should think about cutting off contact from the kids also. Look at how she behaves towards you and your husband now and when he was a kid. Is that the right type of woman to have around your family? Sorry if I’m coming off cold with those comments, but from what you’ve said, this doesn’t seem like a situation that can function. Everyone needs to go no contact.

Have read your full post. You & your fiancé have tried to start again with your MIL & she has said one thing to your fiancé but then backtracked.
Have faced similar & it’s had a bad effect on DD.

I tried to be friendly having now lost both my parents in the mistaken hope of maintaining good family relationships & regret not stepping away sooner.

Unfortunately some things just can’t be fixed- especially with narcissists who need to control the narrative. I think you need to protect your DD & your other child from this. I would also worry about how she will behave at your wedding so if she is to attend you need a contingency plan to manage her behaviour.

I kept hoping I could fix things- I couldn’t. Sometimes you just have to concentrate on your own little family unit.

• How MIL will behave at your wedding.

My Mil is also a nightmare. She has 3 sons all in their 30s but to hear her you would think they were 8. My DH is the eldest. She wants to control everything and by everything, I mean everything. She has been known to apply for jobs for the younger brothers without their knowledge. Came to light when prospective employer called them to arrange their interviews. She has a key to the other brothers houses, which she put offers on and then had her name put on their mortgages. She lets herself in to theirs and makes changes to everything. One time my bil went away for the weekend and came back to find the rooms had been redecorated in her choice and she had put furniture in that she chose and threw his stuff away.
She has tried with us but I push back. She knows better not to try it with us.

When we were sorting out our wedding, she was in tears because my mum would have the mother of the bride role and she would be edged out. She tried to change the venue. In her opinion, the church wasn't photogenic enough. We had the church. She then tried to change the colour scheme by phoning the dress shop. Our theme was gold and cream. She wanted burgundy. Dress shop called me to check. We had gold and cream.
When our firstborn was born, she wanted the name changed. We kept the name. She was constantly overbearing and eventually after an incident, we went no contact for 6 months. No phone calls, no visits, nothing.
She still has her moments now and has occasional digs at me but she knows that we will cut her out again, so now she is a bit more manageable. My DH knows her tricks. His middle db has recently had a baby so she is over with them now and we are left alone. My sil has phoned me in tears now she understands what we went through because it is happening to her.

With your mil, you need to push back but you and your DH need to do it together. You are a grown up couple with a family of your own. The cords need to be cut. She can still be mum and nan but not a crazy one. You make the rules. If she breaks them, you decide whether she is part of your lives or not.

Id take a step back for your own sanity. Seriously, she sounds like shes one of those volatile people you dont need in your life, she openly told you with no shame that she “filled in” her friend?? You will always be treading on egg shells waiting for her to take offence at the next perceived slight.

if you do have to meet up, go somewhere public.

grey rock her and hold her at arms length.

shes set this situation up herself imo

Hi all

Thank you for your responses I am reading through them now, but to clear up what I meant (as I now appreciate it sounds unkind to the lovely mothers of sons out there), this is what I meant:

Causes Of Mother And Son Relationship Problems
Insecurity: Possessive, over-protective, manipulative, abusive, and narcissistic behavior originates from a mother's insecurity. Fear of losing control of her life, feeling ignored, financial problems, a divorce or separation, losing a job, etc. can trigger insecurity.

She is a textbook example of this above.

I appreciate what you’re going through is shit and must be tough for you and your partner but your “mother of sons” comment is wrong sorry.
Another phrase used to try and demonise MILs (even though yours does sound like a demon I’ll give you that).

I am a mother of sons and I adore my DIL. I treat her as if she were my daughter.

Step away from her drama. This cannot be fixed and you are letting yourself open to mow hurt and abuse.

I know the term narcissist is overused these days and I wouldn’t want to armchair diagnose anyone, but this behaviour is pretty extreme. Children of narcissists, unless they can figure it out and change once they are free, tend to other have narcissistic or echoist (the opposite) traits themselves. It sounds like your partner is leaning towards the echoist, still trying to please her.

I really think there’s nothing to be gained from maintaining contact. You’re trying to reason with someone who isn’t interested in being reasonable. And she’s not going to be a good grandmother.

Step back, return to NC. And, to be honest - rather than do a big wedding (that she can ruin) just do it quietly and happily and then have a party for you mates after. It’ll save you ££££ that you can put to much better use!!

I TL;dr-ed that as it was endless and painful.

She's not a nice or reasonable person, she'll never be a nice or reasonable person, stop expecting her to be one. Don't talk to her, don't see her, don't let your DC see or talk to her. If she threatens to kill herself again, call an ambulance and let them deal with it. Spoiler, she won't do it.

My ex's mother was like this. We broke up because of her, but your dp is backing you up so you're doing better than we did!

I'd personally continue with no contact. DH can communicate with her as he sees fit.