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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Husband turns everything around on me

64 replies

Aria2015 · 05/08/2023 09:19

When I express being upset or frustrated to my dh, he always gets defensive and starts to reel off examples of how he could say the same about me eg if I said ‘I feel unappreciated because of xyz’ he’ll say ‘I could say the same about you, when do you show me appreciation for abc?’.

If I try and refocus onto my issue, he’ll say how come I’m allowed to be upset about something but he isn’t? He’ll accuse me of being selfish in my thinking.

I’ve said that it’s fine for him to be annoyed at me for stuff but please could he not choose when I’m trying to express my feelings about something to do it. Just tell me another time. I’ve told him that this will help both of us as we can each focus on what’s bothering the other.

But he doesn’t. Only when I bring up a grievance, will he air his straight back. We go around in circles and I end up crying in frustration.

He never allows me just to be upset, to air something, address it and try and make it better. It always gets turned around onto me.

We don’t argue often, if we did, I think I’d be deeply unhappy.

If I’m upset at something unrelated to him, eg work or someone else, he’s always kind and supportive. But when I have an issue with him, this pattern of turning me having an issue into him having an issue emerges.

I’m not sure what I want from this. Maybe tips on how I could approach things differently to stop this happening?

OP posts:
pictoosh · 05/08/2023 09:34

It's not down to what YOU do or how YOU approach it, it's down to how he receives it. It sounds as though he's one of those who simply cannot own poor behaviour and apologise like a reasonable person. I don't think there's any way you could bring up a grievance and not have it swiftly turned back on you.

How is he in general?

yellowsmileyface · 05/08/2023 09:43

Look up DARVO technique.

He's not going to stop doing it because this way enables him to never have to take accountability. Why would he willingly start taking responsibility for things when he's found a neat way around it?

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 05/08/2023 09:50

DH accuses me of being defensive and it’s true - my immediate gut self defence mechanism when I’m accused of something is to push back. This is pretty much an unconscious response that has been with me most of my life and is very very difficult to change and was very hard for me to accept and recognise.

But on his side, all he sees is me being defensive and not owning the fault - once he’s decided I’m being unreasonable he’s not interested in hearing my side of the story or listening to what I have to say, all he hears is me trying to wriggle out of it.

Easier to talk about this than to break out of it, but what works best for us is to come back to it at a different time with better listening heads on. We still disagree about some fundamental stuff and that can be hard to get past.

I’ve also recognised that his family handle this kind of thing very differently - his mother was absolutely My Way Or The Wrong Way, so he’s used to a world where if you’re accused of something you just accept the accusation, apologise, grovel a bit and move on. This drives me to distraction

Original poster
Aria2015 · 05/08/2023 10:51

@pictoosh in general he's fine. We generally get on well and don't argue much. As I mentioned, if I am having a hard day or have an issue unrelated to him, he's kind and supportive. It's just that I can literally never just voice I'm not pleased with him in some way, without him immediately getting defensive and giving me an example of how I do similar in some way!

OP posts:
Original poster
Aria2015 · 05/08/2023 10:58

@yellowsmileyface I looked up DARVO the deflecting away from my issue is definitely true. He swaps out my issue for his own essentially. It does seem to be an instant reaction he has, almost like he can't help it. No matter how I approach an issue, his back goes up straight away. He does sometimes reflect on things and concede he could have handled it better but other times we just sort of do the whole 'look, I don't want to fight...' type thing and move on.

OP posts:
Original poster
Aria2015 · 05/08/2023 11:11

@LadyGardenersQuestionTime thanks for your point of view. It's not so much that he tries to wriggle out of things or tries to give his side, it's more that he hijacks my issue and makes it about an issue he has with me (that he's not mentioned to me until I bring up an issue with him!).

Because he takes the focus off my original issue, that takes away the chance to resolve it. That's what makes it so frustrating.

I try and preempt things but stating that I know I'm not perfect, and I'm sure that there are things I do that annoy him, but that doesn't seem to work. He still feels like I'm criticising him, and his reaction is to criticise me back to balance things out!

OP posts:
pictoosh · 05/08/2023 11:43

"Because he takes the focus off my original issue, that takes away the chance to resolve it. That's what makes it so frustrating."

That's why he does it. To avoid being held accountable. And this way, he ends up the victim too. It's perfect.

pictoosh · 05/08/2023 11:45

Btw, if you confront him about he'll make that your problem too. Fun eh?

pictoosh · 05/08/2023 11:46

People who can never be wrong are tedious in the extreme.

Cheesandcrackers · 05/08/2023 11:46

A weak person's first line of attack is to accuse the other of being unable to take criticism or being defensive. Even though a counter argument is a perfectly normal response. Basically he is arguing in three dimensions whereas you are only arguing in two. Eventually you ll try to avoid arguing entirely and just work around him and his needs. Then he ll have won.

Cantstaystuckforever · 05/08/2023 11:46

My mum has always done the same - either 'but you..." (which often isn't true, and when it is, she could reflect where we learnt the behaviour from!), or goes straight to 'I know, I'm just a terrible mother etc".

Many decades and calling-outs later, she won't say it out loud any more, but she's clearly thinking it, and doesn't listen. Won't ever try therapy or read a book about anything.

So no suggestions from me, but a lot of sympathy. Also, I don't think that people like this really change, not without undertaking a lot of personal work and reflection, which they don't want or they'd listen in the first place.

Aquamarine1029 · 05/08/2023 11:49

He's trying to train you to keep your mouth shut. He sounds insufferable.

DustyLee123 · 05/08/2023 11:54

It’s a way of shutting the little woman up.

JibbaJab · 05/08/2023 12:02

Yeah it's DARVO and it's extremely frustrating by design. You try and communicate an issue to resolve it but then you end up running in circles discussing everything but the issue at hand.

I had over a decade of this and I got absolutely nowhere, it was the same each time. Incapable of taking criticism, fault or blame it has to be turned around, even when they know and there's proof they are in the wrong it doesn't matter.

pikkumyy77 · 05/08/2023 12:15

Couples therapy if you think he can change. Putting your hand up and saying Stop! I need to discuss my issue today we can discuss your issue later. Is another tactic to use. DARVO is absolutely correct but it can be malevolent or simply habitual. Some people do it simply because it is their family culture and they can learn to stop in a new context. We don’t know which he is. You could start by calling him out on it and breaking the chain between Deny and Attack. Name the problem behavior and make him own it.

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 05/08/2023 12:45

DH has or had a number of behaviours that I'm pretty sure come from the type of childhood that he had. Relationship counselling helped a lot. One of them was a complete inability to be in the wrong. When I was growing up getting things wrong was treated as a learning experience and I wouldn't be told off unless I kept doing it knowing that I shouldn't. I suspect he got an angry, shaming response at the first time of getting something wrong. He would be so defensive with me that he wouldn't actually listen to what I was saying, so counselling was great because he had to stay quiet while I said that the point of identifying an issue was not to blame him but to figure out how to stop it happening in future. He's way better now, but still subtly avoids blame, eg when my glass coffee decanter broke he said "it got broken" in the passive tense and I knew that he had accidentally broken it. If it had been someone else he would have said "X broke it". Which is fine, it doesn't matter to me what exactly happened only that I know something happened so that I don't waste time looking for it.

RedRobyn2021 · 05/08/2023 12:55

This sounds hard. I think we can all be guilty of this to some degree when we're on the defensive.

Have you thought about writing your feelings down and saying you don't want to talk about it right away, but that he should read it think and then write down how he feels, then discuss together, even if it waits a couple of days.

Maybe that will take away the immediate defensive/attack response and give him a chance to think.

Ideally we want to be able to have these conversations with our partner without such a faff, but I guess sometimes it's a work in progress.

RedRobyn2021 · 05/08/2023 12:59

@BlackAmericanoNoSugar my partner does the same thing and I have often thought it's come from his parents. He cannot admit he's wrong, he'll do anything wriggle out of it and it sometimes just becomes ludicrous.

Ilikejamtarts · 05/08/2023 13:24

My partner used to do the exact same thing and it is very frustrating. Once things had calmed down my partner could at least recognise and own up to what he was doing and has always said it was just like an automatic defense for him as he would feel attacked. The only thing that actually changed his behaviour was counselling.

TheAverageJoanne · 05/08/2023 13:33

I was with someone like that and it drove me nuts. I got absolutely nowhere and I always ended up feeling like the bad guy.

RIPDotCotton · 05/08/2023 13:35

I deal with something similar (although on a way more aggressive scale I think) and I took a recommendation from some posters on here to read ‘Why does he do that?’ by Lundy Bancroft. It is eye opening and one of the traits of angry and controlling men is to deflect and attack immediately something is raised about their behavior. I’m finding myself yelling ‘yes’ at so many things while listening to it in the car!
I would thoroughly recommend.

Sparkletastic · 05/08/2023 13:41

DH does this. In his case if clearly comes from having judgemental parents that he was intimidated by. Doesn't make it easier but helps to at least understand the behaviour.

ZenNudist · 05/08/2023 13:57

I think you are describing a really common argument. It would take counsellor level of patience to recognise what your saying and acknowledge without retaliation. It's perfectly normal to counter. It seems very passive to sit there and just take the complaint.

If you say you feel unappreciated but he also feels the same way you both need to act. Maybe a counsellor would be a good idea. They could help you work through some issues. At the moment your argument style is not productive. You both need to make amends and make suggestions to change. Instead you feel not listened to and he feels as if he's justified himself. Two wrongs don't make a right.

If he counters then can you try and respond to his argument productively and set an example and then say I've acknowledged your complaint and made a suggestion for change now you need to do the same for my complaint.

pointythings · 05/08/2023 14:06

My husband used to do this, and it took me a very long time to realise it. When I finally stopped him between Deny and Attack (and it was over something serious) he stopped, but it was also the beginning of the end for us.

JibbaJab · 05/08/2023 14:13

@RIPDotCotton Same here although my wife and recently got out but extreme end, abusive.

Pretty sure I'm dealing with narcissism because it was and still is absolute insanity, not normal. Like you I've been reading and watching things and it's like oh my God, everything makes perfect sense, that's exactly how it was and it was happening from the very start and I didn't see it.

Counseling can help and worth a shot but I guess that depends on whether the person recognizes they have a problem. Some it's a lost cause unfortunately.