Need help, what to do with chaotic alcoholic parent?!

[pilea11]

Lurker, occasional poster and constant name-changer – especially for this.

I am 40. My parents (still together) are 60-ish. Mother has been an alcoholic for a long time.

Six months ago, she was made by her GP to come off some anti-psychotic/anti-schizophrenia drugs she has been taking for decades. (I don't know why she was on them in the first place, she has never been psychotic or schizophrenic.) She is also on anti-depressants, which she can continue taking.

We thought she was adjusting to life without these drugs and she seemed ok, was sleeping ok, seemed normal etc. But recently she has got completely fixated on getting back on them. And she has started making 'suicide attempts' to get medical attention. I put that in quotes because she gets drunk and takes a small amount of paracetamol, way below the level required for anything unpleasant like stomach-pumping. She has called an ambulance before and they simply observe her for a bit. She saw a mental health team and apparently they thought she was 'very intelligent and needs to do more creative pursuits'. And that was that.

She has always been epically self-centred, anti-social and selfish, and I hate for it. She sits around drinking all day, she won't clean the house, walk the dogs, do anything to contribute.

But I love my dad. He still goes to work every day, takes care of the house and dogs etc. Sometimes I go there and clean the house for him. He tries to stay positive. Honestly, he has enabled her.

I strongly suspect she has started drink driving, which is a line crossed for me.

What I want to know is, what can be done with people like this? She won't seek help, despite all the offers and having access to help. We are experienced enough to know that she needs to choose to get help, choose to change.

So in the meantime, what can we do? Is there anything? I wish my dad had left her years ago and met someone else. Can anyone give advice? Nothing seems practical.

I know I am going to sound callous towards her but after so many years of this, my heart has hardened.

Hugs to you. my brother has been an alcoholic well over 20 years and the emotional impact of it will last a lifetime so sympathy to you.

Like you said there is nothing you can do, unless your mum is willing to change. Have you had any counselling for yourself? I had an intense bout of counselling and the biggest thing I took from it was imposing boundaries. What I would allow myself to do and what I wouldn't. Self care is really important. Even if you cut ties for some time to protect your own mental health.

If you have evidence that she is drunk driving I would absolutely call the police, she is putting her own and other people's lives in danger. Maybe the shock of police and prospect of loosing her licence may help her see sense? My DB lost his licence 3 times so not a great example but she may take it more seriously.

@thesurreymum thank you for replying. I am sad for you that you understand the situation so well.

I think I could have done with therapy in my 20s, but I have read a lot, and been supported by my partner, and I'm now pretty comfortable with boundaries (and myself in general). I have learned that I have to stick to those boundaries, so that I can live healthily and happily myself.

I will call police if I know she is drink driving. The possibility of her hurting someone else is horrifying.

Right now I'm racking my brain re the practicalities. I honestly wish we could put her in some sort of home. I think she would like that. It was clear (and very sad) to see that she really enjoyed her latest hospital stay. She loved being in a ward of other women, and talked at them all day, sharing her opinions on politics. Oh, and loudly complained about an elderly lady who was dying. (Utterly self-centred, no empathy.)

She seems to want my dad to give up work and act as her carer, because she feels lonely. (She refuses to do anything at all to socialise, won't have a therapist, sneers at the idea of village groups etc).

I know she won't change. I just don't know how to help my dad.

@pilea11 Always remember you didn’t cause it, you can’t control it, you can’t cure it. Sadly, with one addiction often comes another. You can get support from Al-Anon, your mum can contact AA or another support service for alcohol dependency. Her GP will have plenty of local info and will also offer support but ime alcoholics minimalise their consumption and the difficulties it causes.

It is really, really hard dealing with an addict day after day , look after yourself, put your welfare first.

I hear you! My brother also loves to talk about his addiction, I think it's an attention thing. Is paying for rehab an option? Have you looked at local charities that could support your dad and/your mum if she's willing?

My brother is actually getting help from a charity and we've seen some progress however he has actively engaged in it.

@Andthereyougo @thesurreymum I always keep the Cs in mind. You've actually reminded me of one small thing I can do – encourage my dad to understand that phrase. Thank you. He has buried his head in the sand for too long.

She's had therapy and two rounds of expensive in-patient rehab. That was a good few years ago.

She has no interest in getting help these days. She has no reason to, because there are never any consequences to her actions. Having her children ignore her is not a consequence, because she doesn't care.

If we gently try to suggest anything, we simply get accused of 'nagging'. (And we are actually a gentle family, we don't really shout or get unpleasant.)

I actually wonder if she is brain-damaged in some way (or just a really terrible person?) She has no empathy at all. My dad's parents (my grandparents, who we loved very much) died recently. She had no reaction, not motivated to support my dad in any way, no understanding of his grief.

After the last little stunt, of driving to a public place and taking an 'overdose', she simply got a taxi home, ate the dinner my dad cooked and watched TV, as if nothing at all had happened.

To add, she doesn't seem to have any self-esteem problem. She thinks she is very intelligent, unique and wonderfully eccentric. I am actually cringing typing this but she seems to think of herself as some sort of female Johnny Depp character.

Yes I think alcohol can damage the brain and make people selfish

I have a close relative with alot of addiction & MH issues.

I think the addiction feeds from the MH not the other way round. They are diagnoses with EUPD although the professionals acknowledge there is alot of stuff going on and it's probably a mix of several different things.

They also go through phases of overdosing regularly - they then call the crisis team / other medical professional who they know are duty bound to call an ambulance. Ambulance turn up and they have a nice chat and a laugh and say no no I don't need to go to hospital. If they do take them they just try to get discharged and have been known to abscond on the couple of occasions they have sectioned them.

It drives me nuts as it's such a waste of everyone's time. It also affected my health having to support this and on several occasions having to call an ambulance - one time I actually thought they were dead. It sounds absolutely horrible but at one point I wished it would be successful as they were doing this 3-4 times a week. I didn't want them to die but I just could not deal with the anxiety and the stress of expecting to hear they had died every time the phone rang.

They have also been removed from some meds as they do have long term effects - they also got discharged from MH team as they didn't actually comply with any recommendations or treatment plan. Eg spent a year battling to get in a specialist unit then took tablets while there and got kicked out.

They now have serious physical medical issues which are probably due in much part to the years of abuse to their body but again won't do anything to change / amend lifestyle to help with these.

So after that long post I guess I cannot offer much advice other than there probably is nothing you can do.......it has to come from them. I think my relatively is desperately unhappy with how they live but I also think they are 'afraid' of what life would be if it changed. There is comfort in the known.

We also get accused of nagging should we suggest doing anything she doesn't fancy doing.

Like stopping smoking when she can't breath properly and feels she needs to go to hosp for it ...

It sounds like you are trying to work out whether she is so selfish because she is an alcoholic, or whether that is her underlying personality, or both.

In many ways it makes no difference - she is not interested in stopping drinking and so will continue to be selfish whatever the underlying cause.

Have you talked to your dad about what he wants? Does he stay out of love, out of duty, fear of being alone, fear over what might happen to her if he leaves, something else?

I'm really sorry that you have had to deal with this and for so long.

Big sympathies. Been there with my mum, got the t shirt.

Two things that helped me.

Start to see the situation as a ‘caring’ situation. You have caring duties as opposed to daughter duties. Allocate time per week. Say 3 hours. With that time you might chat, clean, support your dad. This helped me be less resentful because I didn’t want to cut ties.

Im going to be brutal…you are in the bargaining stage or grief (and the grief stages flip back and forth). You are searching for a solution. I’m only going to say this once. There is nothing you can do to solve this for either your mum or dad. Your mum will carry on (and you could assume things will get worse) and your dad will carry on (and you might have to witness things getting harder for him). Try to let this go. Try to make peace with the situation. Try to enjoy small moments with your parents. A cup of tea in the sunshine. Watching some TV together. It is the only way to deal with this. Your mum is very poorly mentally. You cannot fix her.

lots of love and sympathy. Xxx

If she is drink driving, when you have evidence/she can be caught in the act, call the police. Sometimes this is the only way people with mental health difficulties get noticed and get the help they deserve. The Courts powers include giving people rehabilitation (mental health and alcohol treatment). A good Solicitor would present mitigation on her behalf and the sentenced would be tailored accordingly.

Oh gosh reading all this, are you sure your mum isn’t my mum ! All the same, apart from my mum is single.
my mother thinks of herself as a bohemian, living a carefree, artistic life. Unfortunately she is an alcoholic hoarder. Sadly I have had to get adult social services involved now, and she hates me for it, and has vowed to never speak to me again. She may have to move house (social housing) and I feel awful for this.
You have my sympathy, I have had years and years of the strain and upset with it all, her getting involved with druggies, being taken advantage of and having money taken off her, the list is endless and expecting me to sort it all out.
sending solidarity and hugs, unfortunately you can’t fix them, only manage the situation best you can, but not at the cost of your mental health ❤️ ❤️❤️

Re brain damage, alcohol will certainly do that. So will anti-psychotics , in all sorts of ways. How awful that she was prescribed such a harmful substance for so long - it's not as though they're fun to take.

It all sounds terribly sad for you and your family. However you can't control what happens either with your mum or your dad. They have each taken a series of turns that have led them to where they are, albeit that with both of them it sounds like there's a situational element with your mum's misdiagnosis. But, that's their life and you need to focus on building yours. By all means help with practical matters but you can't fix the emotional problems they both have. I would count reporting any drink driving to the police as being a practical matter.

I'm sorry OP. It is hard.

Wow, thank you all. As I'm sure you all know, sometimes the loneliness is hard. And then to be reminded that there are plenty of people out there who really, truly understand. Ahhhhh shit it's a relief. Don't mind me, just having a little cry.

I never spoke about the situation until about a year ago. I do now, to other female relatives. My dad said last night that he had decided he would speak about it now. He has started speaking more openly to me. Here, I think, is where positive change can happen. He and I (and my brother) can cast off some of the shame and secrecy. And simply say 'I hate this behaviour. It's wrong. This is the reality.' I have (almost) fully accepted that she won't change. But I think the rest of us can do more to help ourselves and find more peace.

@Mistletoewench so similar! Also a hoarder, with a filthy house. But as she becomes more detached from life, I have been able to clean the house up to make things better for my dad. I am so sorry you have had to deal with such chaos, that sounds extremely stressful.

@PosiePerkinPootleFlump "It sounds like you are trying to work out whether she is so selfish because she is an alcoholic, or whether that is her underlying personality, or both." – yes, that's exactly it. I can deal with the reality, but the 'why' is something I think about a lot. I like your pragmatic answer here, thank you. I'm going to remember that. My dad soul-searches over whether he is lazy, just wants an easy life, the awful practicalities of splitting and losing the home he loves.

@SupportingMH again, extremely similar! Thank you for writing here. Yes, I have sometimes thought that the alcoholism is almost like a symptom, it may not be the main issue. My mother sometimes seems able to stop on a dime. Like your situation, there are increasing physical problems from years of drinking, smoking, no exercise, not eating etc. But she almost seems to enjoy the endless medical appointments. She certainly never complains about her issues, she only complains about wanting more of this pill or wanting that scan immediately.

Sympathies OP.

Could she be a narcisssist? I know everyone is these days! But she sounds like she could actually be one.

I'm sorry for you and your pops x

@Aplume thank you, yeah, I guess there's something in neural pathways changing after years of under the influence of drink and prescription drugs. She never had any medicine reviews until this year. I think that the anti-psychotic basically had a tranquillising effect, which she liked. It probably also prevented her ever feeling any guilt or emotional discomfort over her behaviour.

She actually apologised to me recently, after spoiling dinner by slurring and falling face-first in her food. In all these years, 'sorry' has never been uttered. I think that's the effect of coming off the drug. It's why she's so fixated on persuading the doctor to give it back to her. Christ, she's even researching pituitary gland surgery, purely to be allowed back on the drug.

My dad clings to the idea that she used to be a great person but 'big pharma' did this to her. That's his crutch and I can't change that. I think she has always been extremely self-centred, lacking in empathy and uninterested in other people. The rest of her family, although not alcoholics, are similar. They have this strange disconnect from people and everyday life. They're 'here', but not really part of things, and they have all found ways to avoid working throughout their lives.

@SphincterSaysWhat Possibly – although I think she could fulfil virtually every high-profile diagnosis these days! She likes to hint that she is autistic, but I think that's probably offensive to autistic people.

It is a lonely life. My friends all have “normal” mums who have helped them out/been supportive throughout their lives. I have always been trying to manage my mum’s behaviour (with not much luck!)
I know have just divorced my self from all feeling with it now, just very practical help offered, I gave up trying to understand it years ago.
I cleaned up for her a few years ago, made the house sparkling. Guess what, it’s a shit hole again 😆

@pilea11

It's the same here - she gets regular liver scans and back when she still had a support worker she made the comment she thought she actually seemed upset when they didn't find anything.

Her life is a constant stream of medical appointments with specialists etc.

I am pretty sure she also fakes / exaggerates some symptoms - earlier this year her legs became weak and she kept falling.

I had called ambulance because she was hallucinating and she had 'fallen' and could not get up. She was walking round her flat with stick but when ambulance people said they needed to take her to hosp she suddenly bent in two and couldn't walk at all. Needed them to support her.

2 hours later she absconded from hospital and made her own way to a place several miles away.

I think she enjoys the attention and tbh maybe thinks it's better to do for medical stuff as she doesn't get that pesky sectioning going on that happens when you overdose / self harm!

It's a real shame that your dad won't leave because they're young, really. It's sad that the next 20 years could be like this - and that makes you tied to her (I'm aware that sounds callous but it is exhausting being tied to an alcoholic in active addiction whose behaviours are escalating - esp in our 40's when life is already fucking hard).

Is there any way you can talk to her GP? Get them the info you have and perhaps get some back?

I know it's hard these days for any sort of coherent continuous care, but maybe speak with the experts.

I also echo PP who suggested Al-Anon but you're clearly an intelligent woman, you'll know all the groups, the podcasts, the literature.

It's so crap for you.

Do you look after yourself? Do you absorb all this stress?

I also have to manage all her finances as she just spends and spends on alcohol / food that rots away cos she doesn't actually eat it / crap she hoards.

I do worry about the future - essentially I will be responsible for her for ever, she jokes about moving in with me but it's not happening full stop.

Frankly she needs some sort of sheltered housing I think - but not sure what is out there. She's too young for 'old age' housing which also wouldn't give the medical / MH support but most other housing for MH / addiction is short term plus she owns own house so I think not eligible.

Sorry...one other thing. My local carers centre have been great. They run support groups for families and it really helps to be able to let the feelings out in a room of people that understand.

They can also provide counselling for relatives and other stuff.

I had a person in my life who was prescribed antipsychotic medication for unwanted behaviours ( addictions which changed with the weather) and rages which were quite constant. His diagnosis at a young age and before any addictions was EUPD.
As expected he went on to a drug addiction which will most likely kill him sooner rather than later
I think the EUPD came first, following childhood trauma, then came the addictions
A lot of what you describe sounds like Histrionic Personality Disorder but I'm not qualified to diagnose of course

@SphincterSaysWhat Oh, I wish he had left her long ago. He's a kind person who likes nature, dog walks etc. I wish wish wish that he had a wife who he could simply enjoy these things with. We talked about this last night. He says he has just never thought about leaving, and the practicalities seem impossible now. If we were rich, I'd say just put her in a flat nearby. But that's not an option. I think he's got too used to it all. I'm trying to focus on the practicalities. For example, she's stopped compulsive spending now, so we have been able to clear the house of all of her junk without expecting she'll fill it back up.

@SupportingMH I reckon it's about fulfilling a need for human care and connection, but without the requirement to give anything back. My mother can't do friendships, she is too selfish and drives people away. So she prefers the attention of people who are paid and obligated to care for her. And yes, she also knows how to avoid any sort of unpleasant situation like stomach pumping or not being allowed to leave a place. She wants attention and connection, but only when she's not required to reciprocate. 'Strain on the NHS', you say? Not a concern.

I wish we could put her in sheltered housing but it's just not an option. I do worry about the future, and what if something happens to my dad. If he needs care, then I will I will have him live with me, or I will ensure he (and the animals) are looked after. As for her, her sister etc can take care of her.