What to do about potentially ND inlaws and failing relationship with my DC?

[Blackisthecolour]

This could be long.

I've long suspected my ILs are ND - my MIL in particular cannot make eye contact, lives her life by routines (and gets upset if they're deviated from), has very little conversation which falls outside of two or three main topics (how to get somewhere by road, how much something costs or a particular football team).

She also does not engage with me (or to be fair anything or anyone she isn't interested in) AT ALL - for example we recently went away as a family (MIL, FIL, BIL, SIL, DH, me and our 2 DC 11 and 12) and in the entire week she only spoke directly to me once! (I'd asked where the teabags were on the last day and she said 'I packed them.') That was literally it and is completely typical of our relationship - I have a job which involves chatting to people all day which I find easy and (on the most part) enjoyable so it's never been something I thought was difficult.

Prior to meeting MIL I would've said there was no one I couldn't chat happily to but when I have tried to engage with her in the past it's clear that she's so uncomfortable/ unengaged that it's actively unpleasant for her so I've allowed this situation to develop too I guess.

MIL amd FIL are very co-dependant so he will often talk 'for' her, and try hard to make things 'right' so she is comfortable in her world e.g she MUST have a cup of tea and a single malted milk biscuit at a certain time so he ensures this happens come hell or high water, no matter what else is going on (even if everyone is stuffed, having eaten recently).

I only realised they must likely were ND after having my eldest DC, initially we didn't spend a lot of time together so their 'quirks' and lack of engagement/ eyecontact/ interest in anything that falls outside their narrow window of interest I just put down to them being different to my own family - completely nbd because it didn't really impact me at all at that time.

Roll on the DC and we now (obviously) spend a LOT more time together - my DH tries to be a good son and wants his DC to have a relationship with his parents. He takes the children over for tea in the week, we visit at weekends and to be honest, we are pressured to invite them to pretty much everything we do as a family which wouldn't be a problem except I literally feel like I'm wearing an invisibility cloak the whole time and crucially on these occasions not one of the people involved actually look like they're enjoying it - my ILS are out of routine, stressed, unhappy, expecting us to follow myriad unwritten/ unknown rules that keep them comfortable, DH is stressed trying to keep everyone present happy, I'm annoyed that I've ceased to exist entirely and the DC are annoyed at their strange, cold, GPS.

The DC seem not to have a bond with them despite DH and I trying our best, throwing them into each others' orbit constantly, reminding the kids to be kind and loving "wave to grandma and grandad", "don't forget to say thankyou for your dinner boys".

It doesn't matter to me that my ILs and I have no relationship, that they seen even to struggle to relate to my DH (their own son) but I recognise that they love my DC and are trying hard to connect in their own way. The problem is that its almost like they've learned to grandparent from a PSA entitled "how to grandparent a human child" - they are trying to do the right things but it falls flat.

MIL spends her time pottering around doing little tasks over and over to avoid engaging (endless washing up of a couple of spoons or cups - turning washing repeatedly, taking it outside to air, then back in if she thinks it is grey, then laying everything out again) - I secretly think of her as HoloGran because like a hologram she looks like a normal person but it can feel like she isn't there or she's behind a screen.

FIL puts on a fake jolly bluster that is obvious and uncomfortable for everyone, perhaps in an attempt to compensate. He can't talk to the children 'normally' - for example on the recent holiday my youngest DS scraped both his knees very badly so he and I abandoned the preplanned trip to the beach with everyone else (sand!) and stayed home to patch him up - we were watching a film in the living area when we heard FIL return on the lower floor, I heard my DS say 'oh no, it's him' and proceed to pretend to sleep on the sofa to avoid him. I was just about to tell him not to when FIL marched in, up to him and shouted (Brian Blessed style) "HOW'S THE PATIENT?" - he kept shouting it until he came right up to him. DS looked annoyed but said 'OK thanks'. I wish he could've known to just come in normally and speak to him at normal volume would get a far better response but I have no way to convey that.

If you've made it this far well done but I think I just needed to highlight that while they're trying, because they have no interest in me I don't know if there's anything at all I can do to help the situation/ encourage a connection. I was always close to my GP and it hurts to think my DC don't have that.

Ypu have my sympathy and I enjoyed your highly entertaining way of venting about the situation!

Have some similarities in my own family. Without getting into armchair diagnoses, I find keeping all comms direct and factual, and actively establishing expectations can be useful for getting a level of engagement, eg: DS would like to show you his football certificate, he's very proud of it.

The person probably hurt the most in this is your DH, who's probably subconsciously re-living a childhood of not being seen or understood, so it might be worth giving some thought to what he needs from here

This is very interesting I also think both my parents are the same and quite possibly both brothers ( one definately is my childhood revolved around his routines and meltdowns ). I am the only one with children so their only grandchildren , once I reached secondary school there was absolutely no interest in me at all (as the oldest I didn’t realise that was unusual until I started to spend time with my friends parents). Neither of them want to speak to me these days and they take no interest in their grandchildren , nor can they acknowledge their behaviour so I can’t even talk about it with them. I grew up thinking they didn’t love me as have never seen any evidence to the contrary . You can’t alter their behaviour either have a strategy for dealing with them, or don’t see them x

Sounds difficult but one think that stuck out for me is that you say your H is trying to make everyone happy.
Is he? Or is he trying to make his parents happy?
Hes actually making nobody happy as you are being forced together not because anyone enjoys it but because DH (and possibly the rest of you) are trying to create relationships that can never really exist.
I would just spend a lot less time with them, they might even be relieved too

Also your children will notice how they treat you and not like it, my son at age 7 said that he didn’t like the way Grandma treated me

Both of you should now stop trying to force a relationship that is not there and never has been present between your sons and their emotionally unavailable grandparents. What you’ve both tried here is not working and furthermore your kids could well resent you both for trying to force them to have a relationship with such people.

And stop going on holiday with them as well, what is the point?. Whose idea was it for you all to go away together at all?. You seem to be in denial re them as well with all this about well they are trying hard to connect in their own way. Where is your evidence in your post for that?. These people have no interest in either you or their son either. You yourself call her a hologran.

Denial is indeed a powerful force.

You need to grieve for the relationship you should have had with your in-laws rather than the one you actually got. Your husband needs therapy re them before he messes up his own family’s lives even more.

Just do short sharp visits with the ILs

An hour at most. 30 mins would be better

No holidays, no weekends, just quick in and out visits

Everyone will be happier

Job's a goodun

Ypu have my sympathy and I enjoyed your highly entertaining way of venting about the situation!

Me too! Could read about this dynamic all day - tell us more 😆

I wish I had some advice but my sister has similar in-laws (who she too has armchair diagnosed) and I really don't think there's any more you can do. They won't change. This is who they are. Maybe cut back a bit if your DC are getting very irritable/resentful of having to spend so much time together. Throw them into each other's orbit once a week and just keep reminding the DC to be polite and kind and in time they will probably hold some sort of wry affection for their odd -but presumably harmless- grandparents.

It’s not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way either.

What was your husband’s childhood like, I can well imagine it was very difficult for him. What he wants ie for his parents to have some sort of relationship with his kids will not ever happen because they are not built that way. Your children in turn could further resent you both for trying to force a relationship with them that’s not there. You do not have a relationship with your in-laws and neither for that matter does their son. Your children notice that too.

The holiday came about because my DH and BIL went with their parents to this place as children and seemed to have good memories of it - I don't know if it was an attempt by them to connect or what but it didn't work. I asked BIL on the last day if he thought his mum had enjoyed it and he said "how would I even know". I thought that was really sad.

It is undoubtedly the case that the reason we spend so much time together despite no-one seeming to get any pleasure from it is because on some level the ILs and my DH know that's the 'done thing' - it's like they're playing at being a normal family. It's very odd to witness as a slight outsider.

It’s unfair to keep subjecting your children to this. As PPs suggested, short sharp visits will be more than enough for everyone.
I don’t think it was fair to tell your son not to avoid your FIL. He made it very clear that he didn’t want to interact with him, and that was completely understandable.

You can have healthy relationships, it just won't look like other people's.

So find what they do and join in.

If MiL likes tea and biscuit at 11am, work your visit round that.

Plan and trail, so 'shall we come next week at 10.30am? We can show you DS' new toy then have a cuppa before we head home.'
'We said we'd come tomorrow at 10.30, didn't we? DS is bringing his new toy to show you. We'll head off after a cuppa'

MiL likes football, prices and routes. Get her to explain football rules to DS, talk about the best way to get to Manchester, and get DH to talk to her about the cost of teabags.

Your DS could potentially have had ASD. You wouldn't want him excluded from the family because of it. Find ways to work with them. NT people are supposed to be flexible!

Whoever said that my DC have probably noticed that they ignore me is correct - it hasn't passed them by and I'm sure they're hurt by it and unwilling to try to engage more as a result. I try to kind of jolly them along and say 'don't worry, you know what they're like' but it's hard to say with conviction because, well, it actually isn't normal for someone to completely ignore you for a full week is it? (Teabag question notwithstanding)

How do you expect your children to have a relationship with relatives who are this disinterested when you as their mum have no relationship with them and otherwise call her a hologran?. Listen to what your BIL said, that was indeed sad to both hear and read. Stop thinking about what the done thing is supposed to be and start doing the right thing for you all as a family.

I also think that short sharp visits wont work out either given their overall attitude.

@pickledandpuzzled thanks for your comment, I do agree but i've known them for 20 years and tried so hard to be flexible during this time believe me (none of my close friends who I have confided this situation to can believe I am as amenable as I am about it) - I am posting precisely because I don't want to exclude them from the family but I myself am completely ignored so I have no sway or influence with them whatsoever.

I have spent 2 separate weeks 'holidaying' with them this year and it's been miserable, stressful and upsetting for everyone. My DH is undoubtedly on the spectrum himself and tries so hard but ultimately I think he's had a similar childhood and whilst he knows it's not "normal" wants dearly to do the right thing by everyone.

i would try for different types of socializing. I am ND and parenting a ND teen and I can see shades of how my family sees us in your description. I know we seem odd to them, but we are happy in our household.

first, the suggestion of being specific, grandchild is going to show you something they are proud of, is a good idea.

second, change the activities. Invite the grandparents over for lunch and board games. I recommend a game called Robot Turtles, but any child friendly set of games will do. I also recommend you set start and end times for the visit in advance. They will likely appreciate the structure. You don’t have to be rude in doing so, just be casual about it, how about you come over for lunch on Saturday at noon and then we will play board games until about 3pm. After that we have x errand we will need to run. If they are ND as you suspect, a shorter, structured visit will play right into their strengths. They will be more relaxed and everyone will be happier.

Yes, sorry, didn't mean to sound as snippy as I did!

I just mean taylor the relationship to what works.

Ps I just want to point out that I've never said the word 'hologran' aloud to anyone, certainly the kids don't know this is what i think.

It's tough because in order for the DC to have a relationship with them I feel like we're almost gaslighting them by pretenting it is normal.

DH has admitted that he finds it stressful and upsetting occasionally to spend time with them so why shouldn't we expect that the kids would feel the same? They've known their DGP for 12 years and 11 years respectively, if they haven't built any kind of bond or warm feeling yet is it a little bit optimistic to expect they ever will?

If your ILs are neurodiverse (and it sounds very possible) then expecting them to have a relationship like you had with your neurotypical grandparents is an unrealistic goal. (Sorry!)
If you or your h don't stop this pantomime, your kids are just going to start refusing contact and resenting you for forcing this charade.
I understand that it will be difficult for your h who will be desperate for some "normal" moments between his kids and them but it's not going to happen- however much he wants it to. It's ok to relieve everyone of the pressure and be one of those families that meet up for short visits at Christmas, Easter and birthdays. That might be kindest for everyone- especially MIL who sounds like she doesn't enjoy time out of routine anyway. The ILs sound too polite to reduce contact and perhaps for their pride you can pretend that you and your h are the reason why you meet up 4 times a year.

I would see less of them and focus more on doing things as a family unit.

Your sons will have spotted their grandparents are disinterested in them and will likely start to opt out once they are old enough.

Then you and dh will be left visiting these mood hoovers...think on op.

I’ve effectively been ignored for 40 years😂no it’s normal my teachers at school were more interested in my then my own parents

Personally, I'd let dh continue with taking the dc for tea at theirs once a week (for as long as the dc will tolerate it at least) and leave it at that. Life is way too short to be spending (a lot) of your time doing things you don't enjoy. If your dh feels bad about cutting back in this way, pitch it to him as a trial period, of say 3 months, to see how it works out. Good luck

@pickledandpuzzled don't worry, I just feel sensitive about it because I know you're right. I don't want to exclude anyone. Family is important to me and I don't have much of it. I would be delighted to have ILs I could be close to (or even who occasionally politely acknowledged me).

Have your kids mentioned the ND issue? They may know someone at school who is ND and be familiar with the idea of people being different but friend material once they work out how to play together.

@BoohooWoohoo interestingly my eldest DC (12) just came out with "well, clearly they're both on the spectrum" whilst we were away to my BIL - we were gobsmacked but I suppose children know more about ND than we did at that age.

@BoohooWoohoo he wasn't being rude or unpleasant about it, just matter of fact. So they know what I have suspected could be true for years - but it still can't seem to bridge that gap between them.