Arguments over Money

[Avenueofcherryblossom]

I’m going to start by saying although I know there will be lots of LTB comments and I have looked into it, but it’s just not a practical option for me right now.

I really need to vent here because I don’t want to drag real life people into things.

There is me, my husband and a daughter, 12.

Back story: My husband hasn’t worked in five years because he stopped work in his mid fifties and has been drawing on his pension ever since. When he stopped work he announced that he was never working again. I am twelve years younger than my husband and I work full time. I earn several hundred pounds a more each month than he gets in pension so he considers me to be rich. However, he does just about manage to still engage in an expensive hobby and has various loans and credit cards that he is paying off.

Last year I ended up paying for our summer holiday in full because, although he agreed to pay half when it was booked, when the time to pay the balance came he said he had no money. I had no choice but to pay, but said that he should provide all the spending money to make up some of the difference. On the holiday he complained loudly every time he was asked to buy just a drink and some evenings he refused to buy a single drink. After the holiday he did not stop going on about how much he had spent and how it wasn’t fair that he had to spend so much. He only spent 10% to 20% of what I paid for the holiday.

So, this year I said that I wasn’t prepared to pay for him to go on holiday. I suggested that just DD and I went away but she felt funny about it. I wrangled with my husband and said that he just had to pay for himself, I would pay for me and DD. He promised and promised me that he would pay up. I paid for extras like better flight times and the airport lounge without asking for him to share the cost. I told him that he needed to contribute half the spending money.

I’m offering no prizes for guessing what happened. At balance time he gave me half the cost of his own ticket and on the holiday begrudgingly paid for a few coffees. So I paid for me, DD, half of his ticket, activities, evening drinks etc.

I am seething.

But what has capped it off today is we had to buy a particular outfit for DD because she is taking part in his brother’s wedding next week. We had lunch while we were out, I said I couldn’t afford much as I’m living on fresh air for the rest of the month following the holiday costs. He dismissed this, took us to Wagamama and was annoyed when I wouldn’t pay. He also wanted me to pay for the outfit but as it’s his brother’s wedding I don’t see that it is my cost to bear. This evening he is complaining that I am less than generous!

And he told me this evening that keeping the house clean and tidy isn’t a man’s job! So apparently I should work full time, pay for everything and do all the housework.

He tells me I am always angry - I wonder why that would be!

“Tell him get tae fuck!”

i’m very fond of this response!

“you’ve been subsiding him”

this is very much how I feel about things - obviously he can’t see my point of view

“If you can’t leave right now then make a solid plan to leave asap.”

my plan is to wait it out until DD has finished school.

“A friend of mine had a similar age gap and it was fine until her H retired and became very tight and boring so she left him”

I do feel that our age gap has grown much larger since he retired, I didn’t really notice it when he was still working. Also our expectations have changed. I think he feels he should be retired in every way and I want him to pull his weight.

Why wait until DD has finished school? That's another 6 years, half her life all over again?

Why wait until your daughter has left school? He’s setting her a horrible example of what she should expect from men in relationships, she’s very likely to end up as some twats skivvy, as she’ll think that’s normal for women.

“So what is his job?”

I asked that very question! He replied “watching football”!!

I know he wasn’t being entirely serious but he seems to spend his time going for walks (aims to do 20,000 steps everyday), meeting various mates for coffee once or twice a week, watching the tv.

“What do you expect us to say to you other than you need to leave him to have a better life?”

fair comment- it’s why I avoid talking about this in real life

OP,

Kindly meant but you are some mug.

He intends you to be his retirement package.

He will bleed you dry after he has spent his pension.

To say you are being spectacularly naive is an understatement.

As for your daughter, spell things out to her.

You need to sell any property and split asap, otherwise in a few years you will be paying this selfish loser even more.

He thinks you are a fool and is treating you like it.

Get legal advice and get the hell out.

If you think things are bad now?

You have no idea how bad they can get.

You will be working to pay for HIM if you are not careful.

Please wake up.

You should seriously ask him what he thinks he brings to the relationship and what’s in it for you. Seriously, he offers nothing, but is sucking away at your resources.

AND it's quite likely that if you WAIT, he can say he is the SAHP and you are the worker - he might be given favourable treatment over keeping the home so she has somewhere to live - as you have a job, you will be seen as capable of housing your DD by yourself.
Then, God forbid the concept of spousal allowance.
I've seen this happen, just rip the plaster off sooner rather than later. In any case, take legal advice so your finances don't look like you're keeping him and he's incapable.

you want to divorce him while he is still of working age - I think if you wait til he’s retirement age, you might have to give him more. While he’s in his 50s, a judge can tell him to support himself. Do think about it. The longer you wait, the pricier it will be. You don’t have to do it tomorrow but get your finances together, go and see a solicitor (not a free half hour - they just fob you off with a jr who says the starting point is half) and plan what your next steps are.

And if he wants any money for anything outside of bills, he can get a job!

You can absolutely bet this is highly likely.

In fact I would say a given.

If you split up, your DD would t feel weird about going on holiday with just you.

She knows your marriage is rocky, she knows your DH is a lazy git and that you do everything. But she’s scared of change (all DC are) and what it might mean. So she tries to pull you both closer and is probably ‘on her dad’s side’ or ‘feels sorry for him’ because DC naturally pull towards the weaker link where they sense the attachment isn’t as strong. It’s why all Disney dads exist and single mothers seethe. But she’d be fine if you split up. She’d adjust. Do not ‘stay for her’. It’s a horrible guilt for a young person to bear.

I would be very worried that he will run up debts that if you are married to him you will be liable for.

That's too long. There'll always be a reason not to do it.
She's 12 , so 6 more years of school.
Then maybe uni ?
I'd get out now , miserable tight bastard.
Also I'd never pay for him to go on holiday again. If your daughter gets upset just say Dad can't afford it this time.

“When exactly will it be a practical option then?. What is preventing you from leaving this man exactly?. Is it because of your DD or a lifestyle you want to maintain?. Stop kicking the can down the road.”

I know that you may think my answer is weak, but here it is:

We live in an expensive area, our house has more than doubled in value since we bought it. I could not afford to buy my husband out of his half of the house. We live in a two up two down, our house is on the bottom rung of value for the area we live in so selling and both downsizing locally is not an option. And my husband wouldn’t be able to afford a mortgage or rent here so he would probably go back to his home town at the other end of the country. The only place I would be able to even consider affording would be a flat in a rough area, in a town 10 miles away meaning my DD would have to move schools. So my DD would lose her home, her dad and her friends/ school all at the same time.

When I say I am angry I don’t mean that I shout and argue all the time, it is quiet anger. There isn’t normally an atmosphere in our home; I generally rub along with my husband okay; our parenting style is very similar. My aim is to give my DD stability with the long term plan of separating from my husband in the future.

Do you realise if he keeps putting things onto his credit card and loans as you are married you would be half liable if you divorced. As time goes on he is not getting enough pension to cover his expenses so his debts will become higher. Bite the bullet. If you loved this man you wouldn't care about sharing money with him and effectively paying for him. You don't love him, he is annoying you and won't even do his share around the house. If your DD was married to a man like this, what would you advise her to do? LTB?

"So my DD would lose her home, her dad and her friends/ school all at the same time."

But she would gain her mother back from the "quiet anger", see self-respect and aspiration modelled to her at the age of 12 up to 18, surely the most important age for teenage girl development and learning about all relationships, familial and partner?

Look at legal separation then.

You need to take this seriously.

Bottom line is that he could end up with all of that house.

Divorce and live together.
Look at your options.

But sort out your finances.

6 years from now when he is 60 and penniless, you will be paying for him and working till your 70.

For goodness sake wake up and protect yourself.

I think you need to accept that he doesn’t necessarily believe that the way you both share finances is fair, but it suits him so he will use every argument in the book to justify his spending on his things and his stinginess with you. The same applies to cleaning not being a man’s job.he doesn’t believe it, he just doesn’t want to any cleaning.

If you don’t want to split yet, then you need to implement the necessary changes to suit you without caring about his reaction. So in future, instead of paying half his ticket so he could fly, you just leave him behind.

I sure you paid so that your DD wouldn’t be upset. He knows this and will be using this fact to get his own way. You have a whole year to sell the idea to her of a holiday without him. I’d suggest you start having more days out with just her and make them super fun.

Id also stop spending any money on anything that solely benefits him, or doing anything for him ie washing, cleaning after him. You have to become firm and intractable.

Obviously this is not the way to save a marriage. You will probably become like I was (a seething ball of anger and resentment), and eventually the reasons for not leaving (finances, house, Dd), will cease to matter as much as needing to leave.

Start saving more. Perhaps everytime you refuse to payout on his behalf you envision that money going to your ‘leaving fund’ it will be easier to say no to him.

Best of luck. My ex also spent the bulk of our money on himself and fucking hobbies.

It is free and he won't know - do a credit check in yourself / him / your address.
You'll get a picture of what you / he owes (if it's linked to your address) and be able to quietly close down any joint lines of credit (eg. An ancient credit card with a £0 balance but possibility of borrowing, say, £4000.)
If (when) you separate, make going back to the credit check the first job you do - you can separate yourself legally and financially from the address and him so he can't implicate you in any of his future sole financial decisions.

Baby steps OP, you can do this. Many of us have, also with children. We haven't looked back with regret at making the hard unwanted decisions, only looked back with relief.

Baby steps.

“Had this been different genders would we expect a 60 year old woman married to a 48 year to get a job? She would however be doing the housework & childcare.”

I never agreed to support him, in fact with his pension and substantial savings he was going to draw on each month I was led to expect him to maintain an income not much less than mine. But he spent all the savings.

Maybe if our house was well looked after I would feel like he was making a contribution.

Assuming I don’t leave him, when I’m 60 I won’t have a 48 year old to subsidise me, I’ll probably still be working with someone in their 70s expecting me to look after them.

“He clearly needs to get a job.
I certainly wouldn't be booking anymore holidays and just keep repeating you can't afford it now.
His life is one holiday it seems.”

Agree with everything written here.

I have tried really hard to get my husband to get a job over the years but he’s had a never ending list of reasons not to. Only this week I saw a thread on someone’s teenager getting a job for 12 hours a week and I suggested he look for the same. His reason not to is it wouldn’t bring in enough money so there’s no point.

“Also I'd never pay for him to go on holiday again. If your daughter gets upset just say Dad can't afford it this time.”

I intend to follow this advice