Can't handle DH's passive aggressive/indirect communication

[Goldmarsbar]

Just wondering whether this situation is normal.

I've been with my DH for 25 years. Two DC. DH has always been a low mood, glass half empty type of guy.

Over the years, I have also realised that our styles of communication are totally different. I am much more direct, I will express how I feel at the time, and don't tend to be in moods or hold resentment. (I have had to do a lot of work on myself over the years as I used to get in moods etc, but I don't any more) However DH does not tend to express how he feels so is often in a mood with me, or holding a grudge as I have not guessed what he wants me to do or how he feels. And then he sometimes speaks to me angrily in a loud voice, or storms around etc.

I have asked him so many times to please work on his style of communication - I find it so painful and upsetting. I have said to him that I don't mind at all how he feels about something but if he expresses it at the time, I can deal with it, rather than him being in a mood and it coming out in an angry outburst later.

He just says that we communicate differently and that he is not able to communicate directly, nor does he want to. He denies that it is passive aggressive and just says that it's different.

On the other hand, he can be kind and thoughtful and a caring dad. I have thought about leaving many times because of the passive aggression, but having mulled over it for a couple of years I'm ashamed to say I somehow don't feel strong enough to. I am on minimum wage and finances would be very difficult. I would feel guilty and heartbroken for the children if I broke up the family unit.

I have spoken to some friends about this and a few also say that their husbands are moody and can get angry, but they just tend to brush it off as "it's just what men can be like" or they try to keep busy and out of their DH's way. So maybe I am unusual/too sensitive - I have tried to not let it affect me, but I find it very hard.

I know life can't be perfect - we have lovely DC, we're OK financially, live in a nice home and DH can be nice for maybe 50-60% of the time. Maybe I am expecting too much from a relationship?

Absolutely spot on this - never seen it expressed so clearly. My exH was a Guess person, I am an Ask. I was a confident assertive person and he gradually sucked the life out of me.

This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about over on the things that give you the rage thread! I cannot stand passive aggressive people and could not live with someone like that, they’d drive me insane! I find it extremely emotionally abusive that someone can be off with you or moody for no apparent reason (well there is but they won’t communicate it) they just rather leave people guessing and playing their game and this pathetic assumption that someone should be psychic and know exactly why they’re acting all moody and behaving passively aggressively is just childish and abnormal!

To me if someone cannot tell you what their problem is then they should just fuck off to play their silly passive aggressive game to themselves and not drag other people into their toxic shit.

So because HE didn’t want to do these things he behaves like this but cannot tell you what his problem is? WTF! It’s emotional abuse op! Him claiming he’s not a dictator but then gets in a mood when people don’t do or behave how he wants them to is very dictatorish! But yet you’re supposed to be psychic and guess that he doesn’t want to do these things! You’re constantly in a lose lose situation! Damned if you do, damned if you don’t!

If it was me and he behaved like this, next time I’d just tell him to fuck off if he cannot communicate things because normal people actually do communicate and it’s not you’re problem to guess what he wants and what he doesn’t want! Let him get in a mood about that and then ignore the childish sod!!!! People like this get me so mad honestly!!!!

You cannot live like this op! He needs to get professional help to sort out his issue, not ruin days out/ holiday’s because of it!!!!

I've told him I won't second guess what he says. So if the words come out of his mouth I'm believing the words and will hold him accountable. I will not analyse if that is really what you mean.

When you lay it out like this, it's clear this passive- aggression is a form of dishonesty or lying.

Do they really find it too hard to directly disagree to the extent that everyone has to do this double checking to ensure they're being honest? Or is it a way of having it both ways - if they turn out not to like it they can say 'see, i didn't want to, and I was right'. In OP's situations it doesn't even get that far though - he knows from the outset he doesn't want to do something and can't deal with it. The pack of cards situation is so minor I'm tbh amazed a grown adult isn't embarrassed to act like that.

Anyway, I couldn't deal with this childish behaviour- I'd have to leave.

I think you’re being far too forgiving here. He’s ruining your holidays with his shit. He’s emotionally abusive and gaslighting you into thinking it’s your fault. Honestly I couldn’t put up with this.

Goldmarsbar

You are living with the Dominator and that is a book by Patricia Evans I would urge you to read. would also suggest you read Lundy Bancroft's book called Why does he do that?. Your H is in those pages. Do not let him see either publications. He being nice 50-60% of the time is not good enough and you remain walking on eggshells aka living in fear. Also you've likely plucked those figures out of thin air so have no real basis in reality. He is also not a good dad to his children if he treats you as their mother like he does. Would you have described your father as a good dad to you; no.

Abuse is NOT about communication or a perceived lack of, its about power and control and your H like your dad wants absolute here.

Counselling was never going to work for someone like your H because he is at heart abusive. He was never going to listen to any counsellor and likely thought the whole thing was a waste of time and or for your benefit only. I am not at all surprised both his parents are dysfunctional; he became dysfunctional as a result of such poor parental role models. Narcissists in particular are deplorably bad parents.

Your H is abusive like your own father was towards you when you were growing up. Between them, your parents taught you a shedload of damaging lessons about relationships and you went onto marry another version of your dad. Its a continuation of what you've always known.

You have a choice re this man, your children do not. Do seek legal advice asap re separation and divorce as knowledge here is also power. He does this to you because he can; he feels absolutely entitled to dictate terms to you along the mood of your home which may feel like both a warzone and an uneasy calm when he is there. Its certainly not the sanctuary it should be for you or your kids. One generation i.e you and your H for that matter have already been profoundly affected by their parents poor life choices and decisions. Its now your kids who are already and will further be affected by all this in their adult lives, particularly if you choose to stay with him.

Apart from you doing this assertiveness course I would also suggest you enrol yourself onto the Freedom Programme, you can do this now.

I have thought about leaving many times because of the passive aggression, but having mulled over it for a couple of years I'm ashamed to say I somehow don't feel strong enough to. I am on minimum wage and finances would be very difficult.
You can work up to it, starting out by improving your work situation. And you can do the research so that you know how it would work, rather than being afraid of the unknown.

I would feel guilty and heartbroken for the children if I broke up the family unit.
You wouldn't do it like your dad did. You'd do it properly and make sure the children got any help they needed. You'd make sure they stayed in touch with their dad. They would learn how to communicate their needs, and how to take action to change their lives if their needs were not met. That's something they are now not learning from either parent.

My exh was similar, and it created a constant simmering resentment in him because he saw me as like his domineering parents (the ones who made him that way). I also had a "wait and see" approach, thinking that I would get to make the decision later, but he forced my hand: his resentment boiled over and he sought out other women, all the while treating me and the kids with disrespect. It was painful.
He told his final OW (the one where I worked out what was going on) that he had never wanted to marry me and have children: I had "made" him do it. Sounds familiar, huh.

And what Specso has written here; you need to take heed of those words too. This poster's comments bears repeating:

"You say you’re trying to find a way to live with it but why? You’d very likely have a happier life on your own with the children or with a new partner who isn’t miserable. I don’t mean to sound dismissive when I say that, I know when you have children and concerns about finances etc it’s not easy to end things but why should you find a way to ‘put up’ with this for your one precious life? You don’t owe him a relationship or marriage when he’s being horrible, causing an atmosphere and doing nothing to put any effort in from his side.

You can’t change a person and you can’t make a relationship work on your own".

The pack of cards - very familiar. I'd buy food on holiday and he'd stand outside the supermarket with a scowl on his face.

Unless this is one of those posts where some facts are being withheld, I think he needs to do some serious work on this, quite possibly with professional help.

Saying he has a different communication style is being over generous - its not different, it's non communication. Passive aggression.
Man here - I had long term experience of this from a female partner. Wishes not made clear, clear questions about joint plans evaded/not answered - moods and sulks when arranged things didn't work out as WE (well thought it was we) had planned. On commenting on a clear sulk, being told that if I really cared I would know what the issue was. Oh yep and as per a comment above from another poster latterly told that I was a dictator. But a clear simple question from me asking for an example of this dictator behaviour never answered.
Lots of other examples.
It also seemed to me, as per above, that there were family background roots.

He needs to work on this. If not I can see your old age together being particularly problematical.

pendleflyer

op has stated that both joint and separate counselling have been tried without success.

I’m totally with disco moves, I’d force accountability for every single decision. Burgers? You’re sure you want burgers? I have expressed no preference and I am happily going along with whatever you choose , if you turn around and somehow make your choice of burgers my fault you will be wearing your burgers and walking home. Do I need to text you ‘are you definitley choosing burgers for dinner?’ I would do this for every single thing until he stopped or I gave up on him or he snapped (and if he snapped - I’d be mad! YOU HAVE MADE JUST ABOUT EVERY ONE OF YOUR CHOICES, DECISIONS AND EVERYTHING WEVE DONE THAT EVER DOESNT ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY PLEASE YOU MY FAULT FOR YEARS. If you can’t handle two weeks of me making sure you are taking some fucking ownership of our daily life then yes we should be over. If you want to grow some common sense, look in a mirrr, give yourself a shake, say she’s put up with my joy killing blaming her for years, if I can’t handle a couple of weeks then I’m pathetic. Because you are. )

He's a horror who is emotionally abusing you all.

Good to read you are looking at getting out.

Do it for your children and the affect this has on them.

You cannot change him.

Stop trying.

40%-50% of the time is a huge amount.

Do not underestimate how much your children are absorbing.

They feel the eggshells atmosphere and it changes who they are.

It is often years later they will realise what it has done too them.

Perhaps co parenting will be better.

If he behaves like that with them alone, they will stop wanting to see him.

The problem is… he most likely won’t stop. And then he will just get in some sort of passive aggressive ‘mood’ because op will be questioning everything and checking to make sure he actually wants those things. So he will just start to become passive aggressive for being questioned. It’s a vicious cycle.

And personally I’d find it too much of an effort to keep saying those things to him, it’s not op’s responsibility to adapt her method of communication to accommodate for this shit, he is the one who needs to change and learn how to communicate. The only response I’d give him is to fuck off! I couldn’t be doing with him making every (non) issue of his my fault and getting in a mood about it.

Another thing you could do op is just mirror his behaviour and do the same back to him when you don’t want to do something! Play games and let him guess what’s wrong with you! See how he likes that!!!!

No, don't do that. Never push someone who is abusive into a corner. That way can lead to violence.

OP - after reading all these replies I think it's time to ask yourself why you are bothering to stay. You can't change him, so therefore you can't change your marriage.

You might be poorer long term but is a holiday like the one you described worth it, or better not to have. A lot of children don't have holidays and are perfectly happy. So look properly at your finances and where you can tweak it. Speak to a solicitor about your rights, check the benefits calculator. Start looking at rightmove. Dream.

If it's not to split the family up..why? Seeing this kind of behaviour where daddy upsets everyone, where mummy is really sad...you think they want that?

Are you frightened of his reaction? Can't help you there, me too. But maybe you have a friend who could be in the house when you tell him, etc.

Break it all down into small chunks. Then decide what to do.

Sorry it was said tongue in cheek and wasn’t meant to be taken seriously. As I’ve said in my previous posts I just wouldn’t tolerate it and he would be gone. Can’t be arsed with emotionally abusive people who think everyone should be psychic and guess what they’re thinking.

Yes I recoginse this from my OH who ticks all the boxes for covert/vulnerable narcissism. Check it out OP and it might ring some bells. I first heard of it on here and suddenly everything made sense.

He will try to make you scapegoat for every problem in his life, I doubt he even likes you because he probably considers you to blame for everything that has ever gone wrong in his life. He will manipulate you into being to blame for things you had no idea were even happening. He certainly won't care about how his behaviour is impacting you because he will have little empathy and no remorse. His world will revolve around him and it will be a very shallow world. He is probably a very good actor though as looking good to others is often very important.

My OH now recognises that he ticks all the boxes - although in true narc style he flits between feeling that he is a victim of narcissism and that he can't be a narcissist because he doesn't want to be.

I am reading this chat with interest. My partner has all these passive aggressive traits. He is also undiagnosed Asperger’s or high end autism, which makes for a seemingly narcissistic and passive aggressive personality. His dad was Asperger’s and his mum a sort of narcissist. He grew up in a very complicated house. His mum never acknowledged his emotions when they didn’t fit with her view of the world. My DP was able to act in a very different and seemingly nice way when we first met. However for him once he had me . We had a house and child, he couldn’t keep up the effort of trying to be nice. He will do everything for our DC but nothing for me, which is upsetting.

Living under the stress of being his emotional punching bag will hollow you out OP.

He is absolutely abusive.

However, in your place I would be working on emotionally detaching, accepting that it is over, and quietly working on getting organised to leave.

Reach out to family and friends.
Work on your finances.

Organise NOTHING going forward as a family.

Spend as little time around him as you can.

Admit nothing to him, just smile, nod and ignore.

Do not respond or react to him when he is upset, dead eye him in response.

Give his behaviour zero reaction or oxygen.

Focus your attention on yourself and the children.

If you have space move to your own bedroom, this will really help in detaching from.

This is not a good man.

Best you start organising yourself quietly for a better future.

OMG! Who else finds it sad, worrying and terrifying that so many women are apparently living with these unbearably immature, selfish and frankly not very nice human beings?! 😱Sadly I am one of them and after just over 40 years together and now being in very ill health I accept that it is too late for me BUT I am angry and upset (well fucking furious actually!) on behalf of all the lovely frustrated, disrespected and (yes) bullied women posting here for whom there is still time!! 🙄 You are not his mother, his carer or his social worker and do not deserve to be the convenient outlet for his emotional shortcomings and/or hang ups!! Life is short, I'm 76, please DON'T put up with it, if the person who is supposed to care for and respect you can't do those simple things, what, FFS, is the point?! 😢 😏

This, with bells on.

I started this thread over a year ago and saw today that a couple of PPs have added to it today.

I am pleased to say to everyone that I did get out! I told my (now ex) DH that we needed to separate and he moved out at the beginning of this year.

It's been really hard at times but my overriding feeling is one of absolute relief and freedom. When I see exdh now, we can have a nice conversation for a bit, then I see the passive aggressiveness/ one upmanship/ control coming in, and I just feel so so relieved I am not living with it any more! The other day he was starting to get like that, and was standing in my doorway, and I literally just said "Sorry, I've got to go now, I'm busy" and closed the door on him! It is just so empowering that I can assert boundaries and put my wellbeing first, which I just couldn't do when I was living with him. I couldn't get away and just had to absorb his hostility and anger towards me for years.

Another good thing is that although I was worried about the effect of the separation on our dc, they both seem absolutely fine with it. In fact, my dd has become a lot more confident in herself, and has actually removed herself recently from a toxic friendship dynamic at school - I'm sure that can't be a coincidence.

I am going to therapy at the moment, which is helping me hugely. I am still grieving the loss of the relationship and marriage, and still coming to terms with how awful it was sometimes - I just don't think I realised it at the time. I think the confusing thing for me was that he was always nice to the dc, but not me.

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who posted on this thread, it helped me so much to clarify my thoughts and feel supported! And if anyone is in a similar situation, I feel so much for you, but you don't have to live like that - as PPs said to me, we only have one life, and there is a much better one waiting for you out there.

This thread has tied me up in knots because I could have written your first few posts word for word, right down to the holiday. I don’t know if I’m relieved that you left him and are now much happier, or if this terrifies me even more because I really don’t see myself leaving DH for all the reasons you listed previously!

I am glad you’re much happier now though.