Can infidelity ever save a marriage?

[OnACloud]

This could be controversial and I’m absolutely not trying to make light of infidelity, I’m currently struggling through the aftermath myself.

Ive been in a faithful, mostly happy marriage for 27 years. Up until now. I discovered a few months ago that my DH was having an affair. I was devastated. Now he is out the other side and working hard to repair our marriage he is also devastated and totally ashamed.

I’m not going to go into the whys and wherefores of our situation except to say that our relationship had become mundane. We were bimbling along without giving each other much attention. The causes of his infidelity are deep rooted, however, I am fully aware that he is fully responsible and he made the wrong choices.

Coming to terms with everything is tough and I’m struggling but there are times when I wonder what would have happened if we hadn’t have hit absolute crisis point (his affair). Would we have continued drifting apart? If he’d have told me he thought we weren’t in love anymore (which I know he should have done) would it have been enough of an awakening to save our marriage? I’m not sure.

Anyone else understand what I’m trying to say here?

Yes but where would you find information that he's had sex lots of times if he doesn't admit to it? I doubt he'd be silly enough to write it all down in his diary.

You say that you worry that you're looking for excuses and justifications while at the same making all sort of excuses and justifications.

It's your life though, you clearly just want people to say that yes affairs save marriages which in reality is just ludicrous. If you have to go to such extremes that you have to completely destroy the trust of a relationship, traumatise someone and completely betray them to make a relationship 'work' then the relationship obviously doesn't work.

Yes

What am I being naive about exactly?? All I said is that I’m confident I know about how many times they met up and what happened. I’m not kidding myself about anything. There is a lot to this, it’s not been a meet up and shag in a car kind of affair.

One of my best friends had a long term affair, very long distance (similar to what you describe, OP). It was mostly conducted on the phone. The physical side of things is the last step. They didn't suddenly meet up and then 'have an affair' in a short space of time. They were in very regular contact and regularly sexting.

What you are describing takes planning, he made the choice again and again and again to keep it alive, for whatever reason.

Do you count infidelity as physically swapping bodily fluids? Or does infidelity start the moment they crossed boundaries, building up anticipation and the constant contact?

I could never forgive that, personally.

I would also bet my bottom dollar that he is NOT telling you everything.

No it won't survive. Unless they themselves owned up out of the blue from guilt.

You have to remember OP. This person you love CHOSE to lie to you on numerous occasions. So no, you cannot trust a word they say about this affair now you have found out.

You can make it work but be prepared to spend the rest of your life manically over analysing every single second that he seems 'off' or quiet, or is texting for a little longer than expected.

That's a life no one deserves to live.

Yes, absolutely., if both people want it to. The snag, in my experience, assuming that both parties in the affair were married/in committed relationships, is that, once things come to light, one person’s marriage may end in acrimony and the other’s survive, leading to one affair partner wanting to enter into a committed relationship with the other person, who is not interested because still married and wanting to stay that way.

But yes, I’ve certainly seen affairs that enabled marriages to continue, and sometimes improved them.

I think I’ve been misinterpreted.
I haven’t at any point said it wasn’t an affair because they didn’t have intercourse. It was very much an affair that lasted for six months. They didn’t see each other during the last four months, it was all messages and phone. This is still an affair. My thread has the word infidelity in it.
I have been lied to over and over again. I am well aware of that. I just happen to be confident I know about the details about the physical part, which actually, isn’t the worst bit in my opinion.
Before this, I thought any infidelity would be a deal breaker but it’s very different when faced with the reality.
We are giving our future a chance to survive together. I am under no illusion. Some days I’m full of anger, some pure devastation and hysteria. Today I am feeling a little stronger which is why I decided to post a very specific question. Tomorrow, I’m sure will be different again.
Thank you to those who have given constructive, honest responses both positive and negative.
To those just ranting about me being naive and believing everything I’m told, I’m assuming you’ve either never been in this situation or didn’t survive it. You’re wrong and you’re not even trying to answer my question. The ‘line up the ducks’ brigade.
Thanks again to those who have tried to help.

Thanks Hermetic. The OW turned out to be a serial adulterer who came after him again six weeks later even though he had blocked as many avenues he could. I expect she’ll move on to someone else now.

I actually think having sex with someone other than your partner is a fairly minor thing compared to the utter horrors of marriages described routinely as normal on here, to men who behave like Neanderthals, are utterly insensitive or absent, won’t parent their own children, are incapable of looking after them overnight or if ill, can’t or won’t cook, shop, clean, ‘can’t’ work flexibly to facilitate a partner’s career, watch porn, pressure women into unwanted sexual acts, go to lap dancing clubs etc etc etc.

@OnACloud
https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_perel_rethinking_infidelity_a_talk_for_anyone_who_has_ever_loved?language=en

I doubt he'd be silly enough to write it all down in his diary.
Ha ha, you'd be amazed. My exh and his OW wrote long emails detailing what it was they'd found especially enjoyable and reminiscing about the good times. She printed hers out, presumably to read in private moments, and her dh found it. My exh didn't print them out, but instead wrote the email account password down 15 years before and never changed it.

I do agree that if I hadn't read what they'd got up to, I'd never have imagined they'd do half of those things (e.g. meeting in a brothel). Totally out of character, or so I thought. He could have lied to me about that and I'd never have guessed. I couldn't read anything from his face.

One conclusion I came to, though, was that what bothered me the most was the way he openly treated me and the children - very disrespectfully, with obvious lies as if we were idiots, and revelling in us not being able to prove the obvious. I feel like if my partner continued to be respectful and loving to me, I'd have more trouble making my mind up what to do.

You still haven't mentioned whether or not you feel free to stay or leave, OP.

Best wishes, for whatever the future holds. I don’t think you’re going to get a balanced response on here. I understand that infidelity can be a deeply hurtful experience, but think Mn encourages deeply black and white thinking about it, while regarding things I consider far worse as ‘just what men are like’.

I’d far rather DH slept with someone else than behaved like many of the spouses described on here without any particular outrage.

I think it's important that you feel as if you are choosing to stay with the guilty party. (Whether or not you're kidding yourself - it's about the feeling.)

Yes, I think an affair can be the catalyst for a renewal of a relationship.
Humans are fallible and people can sometimes break their own moral code through complacency, self delusion, compartmentalizing to indulge in a simplistic game as they try to embrace a freedom that last was real in their twenties (or whenever) etc.
Reality bites and they wake up to the real damage.
If they fundamentally weren't seeking a cheap thrill, made a mistake and have the strength of character to put in the graft needed to repair things, properly, then yes the cold bath of the incompatibility of their actions with the life they actually want can give enough impetus for lasting and positive change. If they respect their life partner and recognise the hurt and damage that is the minimum needed to make it a possibility.

It's not the most likely outcome from an affair, true reconciliation that is, but it is one of the possible outcomes.

@80s I agree, the total disrespect for the whole family is so hurtful and one of the hardest aspects to forgive.
At the moment I would like to give our future together a good shot. The ball is entirely in my court and I have said how long and hard it will be with no promises.
He is desperate to do his best and he wants us to be together but if I went home now and told him to leave he would respect my decision. I have no fear of him making things difficult for me if I say it’s over. I know some on here will say I’m naive for thinking that too.
I didn’t want to go into too much detail but mental ill-health, childhood trauma, attachment disorder and neurodivergence all play a part. And before anyone jumps in, I’m not using all those as excuses but partial explanations.

@PimpMyFridge you talk a lot of relevant sense. Thank you.

@FairlySane thanks, I will watch later

Hi OP
I know I will get flamed for this, but I wanted to offer you my thoughts. The MN brigade may come after me but they can't say anything I haven't probably said to myself over the last few years.

My long term partner had an affair and it absolutely floored me. I thought our relationship was really good, but in hindsight there were probably signs I missed. I loved him with every fibre of my being. When he cheated he did the whole "I love you but I'm not in love with you" line.

I did the 'pick me' dance and he chose me. We went through the hysterical bonding phase and I thought our relationship was better than ever. He sought counselling, and to be honest we did have some really good times, and I don't regret us getting back together because we made some more incredible memories.

Sadly we are not together anymore. I can't say if it's because of his affair, but I just couldn't get over it. His phone would beep and I'd get that feeling of dread going through me. I tried to pretend everything was fine and it wasn't. We lasted a further 3 years, and like I said, it wasn't all bad, but it was never the same. He wasn't MY caprisunnn anymore, it felt tainted.

I am also ashamed to admit that after my relationship ended with the above ex partner, I met somebody else. However he had a long term partner. Why he cheated is his business, and there is no excuse (they have since separated and his partner never found out). But for a year, I was the OW. I thought I loved him, and if I'm honest I did (and still do) but I wanted to offer you the other side. The affair wasn't a mistake - mistakes happen by accident, for example if you make a spelling mistake - you don't mean to. I chose to repeatedly meet this man and be the OW. Do I regret it? Of course. When my ex cheated on me I was on these forums doing exactly as you are now. I don't know what I was looking for with the AP but perhaps I wanted to feel wanted and chosen. I know I should have looked at that from within, and not from another man. What I wanted to try and say though, in my experience, once you start to feel something for someone else - whether love, excitement, attention - it's hard to move past that. Your husband may indeed 100% regret what he did, but it will always be there. It's like an itch you can never scratch. You want it go away and it won't. So your husband may be feeling the same way I do, and want to make thing right (I don't have a partner so I can't make it right with anyone) and he may tried his hardest to do this, but in my experience it's always there, and something we just have to carry with us.

You are the wronged person in all of this and you have to decide, in your own time, whether it's something you can move past. But your husband also has to make a decision whether he can live with what he's done, as everytime he looks at you he will be reminded of what he did to you and your family. Whilst he is actively trying his best to do everything 'right', he needs to also check in with himself, as to whether this is truly what he wants, or whether he is doing what is 'right.' Sometimes I wonder if the cheating spouse stays for the right reasons - whether they are truly remorseful, or whether it is out of fear.

I'm sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, and I do wish you all the very best.

OP, you may have already come across this, but it’s really helped me over the last few months. (Also Cheryl Strayed is a wonderful writer.)

https://therumpus.net/2011/08/12/dear-sugar-the-rumpus-advice-column-81-a-bit-of-sully-in-your-sweet/

I haven’t seen it @booksandbrews , will have a look later thank you.

Thanks for your honesty @caprisunnn . I think my biggest worry for the future is that the memories will always be there. I said to him last night that even if I forgive I will never forget and that our marriage is now forever tainted. I also said that at the moment I feel like the memories of his affair completely overshadow all other memories together. I hope that will get better with time.

You’re quite right, ‘mistake’ is not the right word. I’m well aware that every conversation, every message was a deliberate choice. Something else I went on about during last night’s rant! 🙄

I know a couple who have successfully reconciled and renewed after an affair.
They have been together over ten years since the ow left the scene (affair was discovered, it was traumatic and difficult for some time), in all honesty their relationship is better, they care for it and maintain it in a way they didn't before.
The damage left its mark but like scar tissue that's been tattooed over, it can become a new symbol of adversity met and overcome, part of the story of how two people fought to overcome their weaknesses to recentre their intentions and recognise one of them had strayed too far down the wrong road.

For every story like that, there is another if bitterness swallowed and eating away from underneath, or words being cheap and actions not matching... So I wouldn't take any of it lightly.

Whenever someone claims this, it does sound somewhat delusional. It has the air of a woman who is desperately and emotionally holding onto the idea that this trauma was required, when it could have been avoided. She is trying to make the best of it, trying to find light in an ugly situation.

You hear the same focus on 'there were mistakes' and 'we didn't communicate well' or 'we were stressed/I pushed him away'. Underneath all that, you can still sense the sadness, the trace of the injury.

I guess it's up to you, but the usual pattern of traumatic events in a relationship I've noticed is that the event will happen, then the other party will try their best to hold on for 2 -3 years until they eventually realise that their trust will never be rebuilt, that there is now a permanent shadow over how they view their partner. It takes that long to work through all the feelings and let go.

There are others who do stay and say they've never forgiven their partner, don't trust them or view them the same way, but they stayed together for other reasons.

I’m successfully reconciled. I do trust my husband, I’m not bitter and I am really happy. It’s possible to survive an affair.

However, I don’t believe infidelity ‘saved’ our marriage. It didn't, it absolutely broke the marriage we had. It decimated it. It caused huge wounds and it has left me profoundly changed. I consider myself a pragmatist not a romantic anymore. I am not happy it happened, I have been traumatised. I don’t thank my husband. Far from it. I consider what he did abusive and we discuss it as such.

However we were able to build a new marriage and a new relationship from the wreckage. We have new boundaries, new spoken and unspoken rules, new understanding about the people we are. I’ve seen behind the mask, he has seen behind mine. We decided to stay together and work with our new knowledge of each other.

Part of that has for us involved me not accepting ANY responsibility for what he did. I refuse to accept any blame. We were both in the same marriage only one chose to cheat. I will not be pulled down that alley. He owned his behaviour and has NEVER tried to excuse what he did. Tbh we would not have survived it, as I know it would have led to deep resentment as I started to heal.

Infidelity did not save our marriage, a desire for him to do and be better and me to find grace did.

I just wanted to thank you OP a for starting this thread. It’s very helpful to me also x

@letthatmango so beautifully expressed, you put that into words so much better than I could.