How long would you give it for an engagement?

[icecreamlotion]

Firstly I know proposals are frowned upon in mumsnet and that it should planned as a couple, no ring etc, but for arguments sake I prefer the old fashioned proposal so bare this in my mind with my post.
My partner had been saying for a long time he wants us to get married. He said he wanted to get me a nice ring and do it properly, but with huge debts he couldn’t afford to at that time. I made it clear I wasn’t bothered about an expensive fancy ring but I respected his expectations towards a proposal and didn’t put pressure on him as marriage wasn’t even on my mind.
His debts are now cleared and he’s come into a huge sum of money. It’s briefly crossed my mind that with some of this money he may buy me a ring, but part of me thinks he won’t as the subject hasn’t been discussed since last year. He doesn’t even know my ring size. I’m now feeling anxious that if he spends the money on other things that leaves him without any left for a ring, that it will never happen. our relationship is generally very good and we are happy. I’ve never needed marriage to be content in a relationship, but as he was the one who discussed it and made it clear it was important to him I have since assumed it will be a given.
I think my fear is that he’ll never ask and it’ll turn out to just be another thing I get let down by, if he hadn’t ever spoken about marriage it wouldn’t be on my mind at all. I don’t want to be lead on with false hope and find that actually I’m not the one he wants to spend his life with. I’ve been hurt by many men before and told stories to keep me hanging on that never amounted to anything. If he doesn’t get me a ring whatsoever when he now financially can, I don’t think I could look at him in the same way again. It’s not so much the lack of proposal and marriage, it’s the principle of saying it then not doing it that bothers me.
Would you outright ask about it or wait and see what happens? How long would you give it that if no ring is presented in X amount of time you know it won’t happen at all? Would it then be a dealbreaker for you? I need reassurance from other women what I should and shouldn’t accept.

My sil is in the exact same position, she could have written this post.
What I’ve said to her is to talk to him. Obviously you can’t push for an engagement if you want him to ask when he’s ready but you can ask if an engagement and wedding/marriage is still on the table for you two.

I think you are being insanely passive with the whole 'he might buy me a ring now that he's inherited lots of money' thing why are you waiting about, like a passenger in your own life? The ring itself is a piece of jewellery, and is completely irrelevant I'm married, and I have neither an engagement nor a wedding ring, for instance.

It's more concerning that you appear to think that having a conversation about an important decision for your own personal future is 'putting pressure on him', not something you can talk about as you would any other major joint decision. TWO people would be deciding to marry here. And also that you think that only the absence of money has prevented him proposing before now. You've specifically said you didn't want an expensive ring. Nothing stopping him proposing with a Haribo ring.

If you really want to be married, why aren't you?

Sorry not much advice from me. I'd find out My ring size myself and casually drop a message 'my ring size is .... for future reference'. But then im not very subtle and my partner would take it as typical me 😅

Be unsubtle and see what he has to say, you've spoken about it before with him and he was fine with that convo by the sounds of things so there's no harm in revisiting it again now 🙂

I think it would be a deal breaker for me if we discussed marriage and I explained how important marriage was to me and that I wasn't bothered about an expensive ring, I just wanted to move forward in life towards marriage with him, and then he downplayed my wishes and nothing ever happened.

What I mean is that, this has to work for both of you. If you are saying you just want to be married and he is saying no, he wants to make a big show of it, and that isn't what you want, then I think it means you aren't massively compatible. I think it probably depends where you are in life and how long you've been together, to an extent. But when dh and I were dating, we discussed marriage after about 6 months, in a yes, that's the plan one day sort of way. I'd say it was probably 1.5-2 years in that we started making plans. We decided roughly when we'd book the wedding and worked back from there. I wanted to chose the ring and dh knew that and we bought it together but I left it up to him to propose once the ring was ready (which was a few weeks later).

So I'd say we went from deciding to start planning when the wedding would be and looking at rings to engaged in 6 months, and wedding was 6 months after that. But we were on the same path and in it together. If we hadn't been, I think it probably should have been a sign that it wasn't the right decision for us. I've been in relationships in the past where there was lots of noise about a ring and proposing, but then nothing ever happened, and it's very clear in retrospect that they were not the right relationships for me.

Seriously DramatisPersonae did you not read my first paragraph? I’m confused about what your reply offers in terms of advice, it’s just goady judgement. I don’t want him to do it because it appears I’m begging or expecting it to happen, but because he wants to. He didn't inherit the money.
Thank you Hiddenvoice and Ilikejamtarts it’s very awkward for me to bring up big subjects because I’ve had many abusive relationships I’m still learning what’s okay to do or say all these years later. I tried a subtle ‘X is getting married next year’ hoping it’ll start a conversation, but it never turns around to us. Maybe my insistence on not initially being bothered by marriage has put him off?

mindutopia thank you, that’s a real eye opener and I’m glad you got your happy ending.
Is it typical that couples who marry later do it for the sake of it rather than because they want to? I know there’s a big debate on the right time with some saying before 2 years or it’s over, or no earlier than 4 years as it’s too soon, for example. It feels like the final glue to hold a relationship together, but it’s not something I ever focused on before. Now I think about it more it would be nice to happen and if it didn’t I’d assume he’d changed his mind about me.
It’s 3 years together for us and I’d like children in a few years when I hit my 30s.

We were together 10 years when we got married. If you want to get married - tell him that. I’m not sure what else is helpful to suggest

I was with my dh for 7 years before he proposed. I was getting fed up waiting as were all our families. I joked a few times about me proposing but he said he was going to do it. We had a chat and he told me he just wasn’t ready yet but could see a future with us.

I didn’t push it after that and respected his decision. We lived together and were planning on moving house when out of the blue he proposed.

I was glad I chatted with him and knew where I stood. It’s a tricky chat as you don’t want to feel like you’re nagging but you also want to know you’re not wasting your time if marriage is important to you.

Just go in gently with the chat and ask what he sees happening in the future and go from there.

I think asking if this is something that is still on the cards is perfectly acceptable. It's not begging for a proposal, it's about finding out where you stand.

I think we're conditioned to think that women just want to get married, and that men are doing us a favour by letting themselves get 'snared'. But those ideas are very much past their sell-by date now. A simple, "I'd just like to know where we stand, and whether a long-term commitment including home, marriage and children is still something you imagine for our future one day?"

It's OK to want marriage. It's OK to want to be married before you have children. It's OK to not want to be married. What's not OK is for you both to have very different wants/needs, and not be able to talk to each other about them.

Me and my now husband had been together 5 years before he proposed. We had talked about getting married previously but he had been married twice before which made him apprehensive, understandably. He knew I would like to get married. I didn't badger him as I wanted him to come to the decision on his own. The proposal took me completely by surprise, he also had know idea what my ring size is as I didn't wear rings for him to compare to. He underestimated the chunkiness of my finger 🫣, so we got the ring resized. Now coming up to 10 years of marriage in September.

I didn't get married till I was in my late 30s, btw. It was not "for the sake of it", I assure you!

Thanks everyone, nice to see some happy endings! His mum is very pushy with ‘when will I get grandchildren’ etc so I’m very surprised she hasn’t asked about marriage, she’s very of the mindset marriage before children, although none of her children are married.
sorry clawedbutler I didn’t mean that rudely so apologies if I offended you, I just know a lot of people feel pressured after a certain point, once that early honeymoon phase excitement has passed it becomes the next step for many, but can take longer for others for various reasons. I once worked with someone who had 8 children with her partner and they’re still not married despite her begging him for years, I don’t want to feel that emptiness she must have.

Tell her that he has to propose first, then she will start hounding him about it.

I think my fear is that he’ll never ask and it’ll turn out to just be another thing I get let down by, if he hadn’t ever spoken about marriage it wouldn’t be on my mind at all. I don’t want to be lead on with false hope

Why "hope" for something you never thought about ? How can you fear being let down over something you never wanted or needed?

I read all your paragraphs. You don't seem to feel capable of expressing what you want. You say it never occurred to you to want to get married, that he was the one who brought it up, and now you say you're afraid he'll never ask at all, despite the fact you said it hadn't been something you wanted and he did, but now you won't even remind him in case he feels 'pressured' into something he said he wanted.

Forget him for a minute. What do you actually want, and why are you so reluctant to say 'This is what I want' to someone you supposedly love and trust? Why put this whole thing on him, his wants, his actions?

Mixed messages here, OP, you say it's not something you've been bothered about but you also want him to want to? If he's changed his mind or wants to spend his money on other things, is that not OK if you've not been that bothered about getting married? He may have decided he wants to spend the money he's come into on something else, but how will you know unless you ask him about his plans?

His discussion about marriage and buying a ring when he had the money was quite some time ago, once it got into my head and I knew it was something he was keen on it then made me look to the future when it would happen. At that time I wasn’t interested no, but now I am and he is aware of that. Does that explain?

If it's something you want now, and he knows it's something you want but isn't doing anything about it, then it sounds like you need to talk to him about it and tell him how you feel. Think of it as practice for all the other slightly uncomfortable conversations that are occasional parts of a long and happy marriage!

I'm sorry that your previous relationships have left you feeling uncertain about what's OK and what isn't. I hope that you can rebuild your confidence to trust your feelings and know that your needs are important.

Even if we were to argue that you should discuss it...well, you have. From what I understand he was the one to start this conversation back in the day.

You can of course bring it up again, even as a circling back to the previous conversation

Or you can assume that if he was to propose he would do it without a prompt already.

Unpopular opinion here, but based on my own experience (so consider my obvious bias) - I think if a man is in love and wants to get married then he will propose.

I think people may have all logical, practical and financial discussions under the sun, but I've been there and done that and all I can say is "fuck that".

Someone may be convinced to get married, you can convince them it's a sensible option, they may even decide to get married to maintain the relationship with you, but I will maintain that if this person genuinely wanted to be with you for the rest of their life then that conversation would not be needed

It sounds like you would like your dp to be in the driving seat, because that's more traditional or romantic, but at the same time it's making you anxious and stressed with the uncertainty.

You say "proposals are frowned on at mumsnet" - I can't speak for all of mumsnet, only for myself. Being passive, and waiting and guessing if your dp is going to propose, is not enjoyable. You might end up waiting a long time before finding out he doesn't want to after all, and then you've wasted years, and grown resentful. He might not realise you want this and be baffled when you are angry that you've waited so long for it.

It's just practical to have the conversation as equals. It's not nagging - that would be "hey why haven't you proposed to me, wheres my ring". Instead why not just sit him down and say, "do you think you ever want to get married? I've decided it's important to me to get married before having kids" (or whatever your honest reason is). Then if he says no, you know where you stand and can leave him. If he says yes, he can orchestrate a romantic proposal/ring for a later date.

Being open and grown up about things is just a simpler way of life.

I think you probably need to find a way to tell your DP that you now want him to be your DH. He might have a romantic proposal planned but equally not, especially if he's unsure of if you definitely want this.
Deep breath and tell him that you are Very Keen to receive his proposal please and you'd like to get a date set.

Well, tell her you'd be happy to start trying on honeymoon but no earlier ;)
Engagement means nowt :D

For me it would entirely come down to:

How old are you?
Do you want children?
Is it necessary/important for you to be married before you have children?

I think it’s good for you to be setting boundaries even with yourself and not necessary ‘pushing’ your partner.

Don’t wish for a proposal from someone you can’t even talk to.

Don’t get married, don’t even stay in the relationship if you haven’t yet recovered from other abusive relationships.

So you’ve been together 3 years and I assume you’re around mid 20s. How long have you been living together? And when did you last discuss marriage and at what depth?