what is a ‘Nice Guy’?

[gemsandmilk]

I’ve seen this used a few times in a derogatory way. Is it a man who wants to act nice for other reasons? Could you explain?

Man here
Interesting thread.

The definition generally agreed on above seems to be the bloke who adopts/broadcasts nice attitudes in order to gain attention from women/sexual favours (they hope - though often vainly) - I have been aware of these types in "right-on" offices but also particularly on social media/in certain forums. They espouse what they take to be right-on ideas but are actually total frauds. Absolute worms. If memory serves there is a good example of this in the film Dogsville - a film which deals with bullying at some serious length - and he turns out to be amongst the worst.

In truth, I have tended to think of the term "nice guy" as being someone who is seen by some women as not up to sex or interesting sex, some bloke who is too delicate about women for them to be interested. Or maybe I'm thinking of "nice boy". I was called this once by a woman who it seemed clear to me was somewhat disappointed that I didn't want to do "terrible things" to her/made no moves. In fact didn't fancy her.

I’ve had one, and it did not feel ‘nice’. Always felt odd and disingenuous, and screamed if his lack of boundaries. It was all about him ‘wanting’ to be nice and not really ever responding to what I wanted or needed. In fact, even when asked to not do thing he was completely dead to this because he relied only on the ‘nice guy’ act and had couldn’t be who he was at all.

Everything from his past was framed him as a ‘victim’ and he had. I told in anything or had ever done anything wrong.

if he ever didn’t get his own way or I responded with a ‘nah’ he sulked and was passive aggressive. Sometimes his reactions were really over the top and he seemed like he was ‘acting’.

he was too much, far too much and flooded our relationship with his feelings,

urg… makes me feel sick and off reflecting and also angry.

Nice guy is code for entitled.

In my experience, it's a guy who thinks being nice is tokens to spend on either sex or being nasty to you.

So interesting, thanks everyone. I find it really hard to get my eye in to the genuine niceness vs this stuff

My ex was a classic "nice guy" completely changed his preferences and personality to hook me in. Pretended to like things I liked, I remember coming across one of those stupid political quizzes he did, in the answers he was somewhat right of Hitler. He was pretty controlling, took me a long time to realise though.

Yes I forgot, passive aggressive to extreme lengths. Only very very occasionally does the mask of "niceness" come off.

having had a certain experience of a woman in my past, I'd be wary of someone who seems to apologise a bit too much/too readily - quite often for things you had never really noticed/didn't think really needed to be apologised for.

When the term ‘nice guy’ is used in a derogatory way it’s a reference to men who go around saying ‘I am a nice guy, women aren’t interested in nice guys, I might as well be an asshole’

Bit in-fact they are actually assholes. They are the type of men that think if they show a hint of (fake) kindness to a woman she should be willing to have sex with him and when they don’t they turn nasty. They often befriend women and then get angry that friendship doesn’t turn to sex and m, again, get nasty. They don’t see relationships with women as anything more than transactional with sex being the part of the bargain they receive. It’s often part of incel thinking.

There is obviously the abuser, who is nice to everyone else an abusive to his partner. The ones that are super nice and polite to everyone else. But not their partner. That’s a tactic to us against their victim. But when someone uses ‘nice guy’ as an insult that’s not what they usually mean.

Men who are actually nice, don’t broadcast it or expect sex for the smallest act of kindness. They don’t seeth over the fact that the smallest act of kindness has had women begging for sex. They don’t then get nasty with women who don’t want sex with them.

Well of course there’s street Angel/ home devil.
Home devil has to work exceptionally hard to appear nice outside the home so that nobody suspects him of what he does behind closed doors. Going for a meal? Street Angel will have that bill paid before anyone else. Cold morning? Street Angel has defrosted all the neighbours card and gritted the pavement. Need a handyman? Don’t panic! Street Angel will work for free! Everyone will tell you what a nice guy he is because EVERYONE you know, particularly your closest friends, will be recipients of his charity. If you express anything less than adoration for street Angel, you’ll be dismissed as crazy because after all, he’s just such a NICE GUY. When home devil starts to emerge you’ll think you’re losing your mind.

"I'm so wonderful because I treat women with the level of general respect all humans can expect from each other...and yet I have not been rewarded with sex! Why do birches only want arseholes instead of nice guys like me??"

I like Maya Angelou’s quote and I think of it a lot when I think of nice guys that aren’t quite so nice at home :
"If you have only one smile in you, give it to the people you love. Don't be surly at home, then go out in the street and start grinning 'Good morning' at total strangers."
After years of a ‘nice guy’ who was quite the cold, calculating, miserable fuck behind closed doors , its nice to be reminded of the value in genuine people who don’t need everyone to believe they’re Mr nice guy.

Well done on counselling but that’s it right there. I have no idea why you are in counselling and I would write do not share but people generally have counselling due to some sort of vulnerability caused by past or current issues. Abusive men of every type can sniff this out.

It’s why women can end up with a whole line of abusers. It is not the fault of the woman that she has a vulnerability it’s the fault of the exploiter. Myself and my sisters grew up in a very violent household, truly awful. All 5 of us ended up with abusive men, we were all vulnerable. I would say 3 of them followed that pattern more than once. The other 2 of us fortunately didn’t.

Your counselling is working because it is giving you boundaries and you are questioning. In all relationships no one truly knows what’s happening between a couple apart from the couple. Trust your gut.

It's not a fault in a woman to have a vulnerability. I still have the same vulnerabilities I had when I was in an abusive relationship. But I'm in a healthy one now, because counselling helped me to understand that when, as a vulnerable person, I don't like something, I need to respect that feeling and distance myself from the cause. I don't have to stop being vulnerable, I have to remove myself from people who disrespect my vulnerability.
It's like when you've cut yourself. You can't make the cut go away, but you can stop using the injured finger and keep it out of harm's way. You don't say 'Keep running on that broken leg!', you say 'Better test that and let it recover'.

Look up the m’lady sketch by Amy Schumer.

That’s a similar kind of vibe.

Some guys are just inept with women and inadequate and because they lack confidence will try and get into a woman’s good favours by being her ‘friend’, when it’s actually with a view to a sexual relationship.

They’ll often put a woman on a pedestal but essentially don’t see her as a real person beyond their own fantasy wish fulfilment.

They mistakenly think that because they lack confidence so are not ‘players’, they are by default ‘nice guys’. They think because they are a bit pathetic and idolise the object of their affections they must also be nice. Yet they are ultimately motivated by self-interest.

I have a friend like you describe OP.
Loads of women friends which is mainly how I know him. Has been in love / lust with many of them including me, boundaries have been crossed, his ex wife hated it but he just says its because he relates better to women.

Tbf he has loads of men friends too, is generally a popular guy .

Very kind, generous, would do anything for anyone, not materialistic etc and would do anything for his men friends too.

Good looking, interesting, fun etc but I have seen his temper more than once.

He was in love with me at one point, I didn't want to spoil our many linked friendships so didn't go there and fortunately saw the temper thing after that (not related to me but was shocking)

he's been a good friend to me but its got to the point wjere ive had to distance myself and had to say no to things or help i could really do with, for fear of givnig him the wrong idea, which is ridiculous and goes against all my feminist sensibilities.

Because we share so many friends i also fear that accepting any kindness from him will be seen as me 'leading him on' although everyone knows what he's like, because he's a 'nice guy' I'd look like the bitch.

He always bemoans the women who turn downnice guys, he has no lack of serial/ romantic dalliance but they never last for whatever reason.

Personally I think it's because of his anger and desperation to have a girlfriend.

We've discussed it and I've gently raised the subject of therapy and he was immediately defensive.

After that I just thought I'll leave him to his sadness and loneliness because he has his narrative and I'm sure I'm not the first woman who has suggested ways he could change it.

The ther thing he does despite being very much one of those 'feminist' men is very obviously and distinctly sees women or 'females' as a separate entity from men.
No matter what he says about equality, his many 'female' friends, how amazing women are etc, there's many little things he says and does which show he has a different view of us.
Is very hard for me to articulate this!

I think you articulated quite well.

I hate the ‘oh women are amazing’ (or similar) line. It shows they think of us as an entirely separate entity to men.

Women aren’t amazing. We are the same as men. Some are amazing, some are neutral in terms of being amazing and some are crap. And most of us are all 3 at different points in our lives.

But also on the flip side they moan about how women aren’t falling at their feet and how women just don’t recognise how amazing they are.

ugh yeah spot on! I hate it when people, and particularly men, do the ‘women are amazing’ schtick. It just belies sexism. So patronising and there’s often this obvious expectation of some reward. It’s one of the reasons I hate International Women’s Day, it’s used as currency for brownie points.

Ditto for the ones who make comments like

“women are much more sensible than men”

”women are the more intelligent sex”

etc. Often accompanied by a little twinkle of excitement as they anticipate your thrilled reaction.

Nicely put.

There is a trope in fiction, particularly film and TV, whereby as long as a guy is nerdy, awkward, not a jock or player type, he can treat women like absolute shit and still be the good guy.

I am still here and reading so avidly! Mumsnet is amazing when it helps you dig down into a hard to grasp issue like this. I so recognise the man who crosses all the boundaries with his friends. And the hidden anger! It’s quite like the man I’m thinking of.

Yes the anger! They feel entitled yet
inadequate and frustrated. They’re mostly angry at themselves but this gets deflected and channelled into hatred of women, and particularly towards the person they fancy as they feel humiliated by them.

Yeah! It reminds me of some tv show in the US I saw an ad for once – it was something about a ‘nerdy’ unattractive guy (or a few of them) getting to go on dates with hyper attractive model-type women. And one of the sound bites in the trailer was one of the nerdy guys saying, “I just hope they’re not shallow”. Obviously completely missing the point that his interest in them was very shallow. 😂 I’m sure many of these guys would have loved to be ‘players’ but felt compelled to be as ‘nice’ as their options demanded.

That's almost sublime in its irony.

Sounds extremely early to mid 00s to me.

My dd and her friends talk about "cookie monsters" Guys who are performatively feminist for the "cookies". I knew men like this when I was young. So depressing they are still a thing.