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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

How many people tell lies in family court?

51 replies

xx200xx · 14/07/2023 17:40

Hello,
Me again sorry

Just looking on how many fathers have lied to family courts for custody??

My 1 year olds father has/is lying so bad. He's saying my son is filthy and In dirty clothes what don't fit every time they have contact. He says he wishes he had more time with him so he can bathe himS Also plenty of other lies.

I have done nothing but tell the truth. He only sees our son twice a week atm for a few hours. We are back to court in October.

I'm so scared he will get custody due to his lies. He's a full blown narcissist. He has got his father as a witness also. I have took pictures of my soon before contact and he's coming home with dirty clothes. Only 2 occasions I forgot to take pictures. I'm so scared. Sorry for posting loads. I'm just having a hard time

OP posts:
GetInTheBinThenGetInTheSea · 14/07/2023 17:44

Unfortunately, a lot. Have you spoken to CAFCASS yet?

Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 17:49

GetInTheBinThenGetInTheSea · 14/07/2023 17:44

Unfortunately, a lot. Have you spoken to CAFCASS yet?

Yes, before the hearing started but now there not involved but I'm going to ask for a section 7 to prove my point

OP posts:
Livinghappy · 14/07/2023 18:36

Unfortunately high conflict individuals will lie excessively and sadly courts believe it takes 2 people to create conflict...which isn't the case.

I was speechless by the lies Ex told, all were easily proven to be untruthful, but courts don't look at each allegation as you imagine happens. So an abusive person can throw mud just to hope some of it sticks.

If you have other references such as childcare etc who can verify your child is well cared for that will help but all you can do is defend yourself by photos etc but be prepared for his allegations. Always remain calm however as he wants you to get angry.

Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 18:45

Livinghappy · 14/07/2023 18:36

Unfortunately high conflict individuals will lie excessively and sadly courts believe it takes 2 people to create conflict...which isn't the case.

I was speechless by the lies Ex told, all were easily proven to be untruthful, but courts don't look at each allegation as you imagine happens. So an abusive person can throw mud just to hope some of it sticks.

If you have other references such as childcare etc who can verify your child is well cared for that will help but all you can do is defend yourself by photos etc but be prepared for his allegations. Always remain calm however as he wants you to get angry.

I'm currently in a refuge so the staff will be able to do me a supporting letter they have no concerns whatsoever.

Was you childs father trying to get custody?

OP posts:
Livinghappy · 14/07/2023 19:02

Was you childs father trying to get custody?

Really not sure of his agenda...definitely fought to have more time so he paid less. Mostly I think it was to cause me maximum upset. Post Court when we had no been for contact he would send messages to cause drama/upset. I stopped engaging completely - grey rock. I never respond quickly and only if essential and when I am put a completely non emotional response. Narcissists thrive on conflict, its like a stage for them so courts really suit them.

Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 19:03

I made of mistake of putting my son in something that said 9/12 months and not 18/24 months. When I brought it the hanger was 12/18 months. It fitted my son don't get me wrong. I didn't realise until my son got back from fathers when my mother pointed it out. I know there going to use this against me 😭

OP posts:
Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 19:03

Livinghappy · 14/07/2023 19:02

Was you childs father trying to get custody?

Really not sure of his agenda...definitely fought to have more time so he paid less. Mostly I think it was to cause me maximum upset. Post Court when we had no been for contact he would send messages to cause drama/upset. I stopped engaging completely - grey rock. I never respond quickly and only if essential and when I am put a completely non emotional response. Narcissists thrive on conflict, its like a stage for them so courts really suit them.

How much time did he end up getting? Also do u mind me asking what he accused you off?

OP posts:
GetInTheBinThenGetInTheSea · 14/07/2023 19:39

xx200xx · 14/07/2023 19:03

I made of mistake of putting my son in something that said 9/12 months and not 18/24 months. When I brought it the hanger was 12/18 months. It fitted my son don't get me wrong. I didn't realise until my son got back from fathers when my mother pointed it out. I know there going to use this against me 😭

Ah, bless you. I know what it's like to stress over every little thing that can be held against you. It's horrible. I'm sure you're doing your best.

I wish I could reassure you more. Have you spoken to the staff in the refuge about getting legal aid?

Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 19:43

@GetInTheBinThenGetInTheSea

It's awful!!

I have legal aid already as I have a non molestation against dad. Police are coming to see me tonight as he has broke it also.

OP posts:
GetInTheBinThenGetInTheSea · 14/07/2023 19:45

xx200xx · 14/07/2023 19:43

@GetInTheBinThenGetInTheSea

It's awful!!

I have legal aid already as I have a non molestation against dad. Police are coming to see me tonight as he has broke it also.

That sounds really stressful but it's good evidence that he's behaving unreasonably.

Are you hoping for full custody?

Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 20:03

@GetInTheBinThenGetInTheSea I wish I could get full custody, but my solicitor says she thinks the judge will give 50/50 as that's what normally happens. But he's not going for custody and giving me 2 days a week. So scared it will happen!

OP posts:
GetInTheBinThenGetInTheSea · 14/07/2023 20:23

xx200xx · 14/07/2023 20:03

@GetInTheBinThenGetInTheSea I wish I could get full custody, but my solicitor says she thinks the judge will give 50/50 as that's what normally happens. But he's not going for custody and giving me 2 days a week. So scared it will happen!

I'd prepare yourself for the worst. I hate to say that, but the court is a weird place.

Are the kids with you now?

Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 20:27

My child has been with me for the past 6 months while living in refuge and has always been with me. I have always been main caregiver .
What do u mean prepare myself for the worse? Meaning my child could get giving to dad??

OP posts:
Mari9999 · 14/07/2023 20:39

@xx200xx
I would imagine that judges and magistrates have seen and heard all sorts of things. I would imagine that they do not believe most of what they hear from either side. Without overwhelming and objective evidence, they are not going to remove your son because your ex says that he was dirty. Equally so, they are not going to be impressed by you bringing in mountains of pictures and emails trying to prove that he is so much worse than you.

They know that you are 2 people who no longer like each other and are not going to inclined to say anything good about each other. They know that the 2 of you are not inclined to be reasonable, because reasonable people settle their issues without court intervention..

If either or both of you have legal representation, they if they are willing to be honest, can tell you before hand exactly how this is going to end

Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 21:25

Mari9999 · 14/07/2023 20:39

@xx200xx
I would imagine that judges and magistrates have seen and heard all sorts of things. I would imagine that they do not believe most of what they hear from either side. Without overwhelming and objective evidence, they are not going to remove your son because your ex says that he was dirty. Equally so, they are not going to be impressed by you bringing in mountains of pictures and emails trying to prove that he is so much worse than you.

They know that you are 2 people who no longer like each other and are not going to inclined to say anything good about each other. They know that the 2 of you are not inclined to be reasonable, because reasonable people settle their issues without court intervention..

If either or both of you have legal representation, they if they are willing to be honest, can tell you before hand exactly how this is going to end

I would be bringing in pictures proving myself, to show proof that my son is clean and dressed properly before contact with his dad. So surely proving myself wouldn't be bad in court? It's got to the point I have to as I'm being accused of all sorts

It's being settled in court because I had to leave to go to refuge due to dad being abusive. So I had to stop all contact with him and let him apply to courts as that was advised by my solicitor.

OP posts:
Thunderisntnicebythebeach · 14/07/2023 21:36

Can the refuge workers support you being a good dm? They can offer up character statements... Keep records of your dc's daily schedule... Keep details of any baby clubs you attend... Any Dr appointments you take dc to. Show on paper who has been doing the actual parenting these past 6 months. Does he pay cms? He can explain why not to the judge if he doesn't... Keep your bills etc paid up to date. Prove you are the responsible one supporting your dc. If your ex repeatedly slags you off it won't look well he has no respect for his dc's dm... Keep any abusive messages etc. Proof. Receipts. Evidence.

Mari9999 · 14/07/2023 21:44

@xx200xx
It is a matter concerning your child so you will naturally worry, but no court is going to take your child from you because an angry ex says that your child is dirty or unkempt. Angry exs make all kinds of allegations. There is nothing that he is going to say or show that the court has not seen and heard multiple times. If you act rationally and do not get drawn in to his nonsense, things will probably go exactly as your solicitor says.

Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 21:44

Thunderisntnicebythebeach · 14/07/2023 21:36

Can the refuge workers support you being a good dm? They can offer up character statements... Keep records of your dc's daily schedule... Keep details of any baby clubs you attend... Any Dr appointments you take dc to. Show on paper who has been doing the actual parenting these past 6 months. Does he pay cms? He can explain why not to the judge if he doesn't... Keep your bills etc paid up to date. Prove you are the responsible one supporting your dc. If your ex repeatedly slags you off it won't look well he has no respect for his dc's dm... Keep any abusive messages etc. Proof. Receipts. Evidence.

Yes the refuge staff can give me a supporting letter but I'm not sure if that's aloud or if CAFCASS have to ask for this.

Courts know I have been on my own for the past 6 months doing everything as my son has only started seeing his father again. He gets 2 hours 2 days a week. But this increases to 4 hours on Wednesday.

We can't bring cms into court cases as this reflects badly on the person who mentions this.

OP posts:
Thunderisntnicebythebeach · 14/07/2023 21:51

I imagine a judge will ask him regardless.. Dc aren't pay per view but showing financial commitment is a thing he would look a twat not to be doing.. Is the 4 hours to he supervised? That's a long time to keep up a facade... Give a man enough rope op...

Chatillon · 14/07/2023 21:53

Mari9999 · 14/07/2023 21:44

@xx200xx
It is a matter concerning your child so you will naturally worry, but no court is going to take your child from you because an angry ex says that your child is dirty or unkempt. Angry exs make all kinds of allegations. There is nothing that he is going to say or show that the court has not seen and heard multiple times. If you act rationally and do not get drawn in to his nonsense, things will probably go exactly as your solicitor says.

100% ^

Most judges* will have spent much of their youth in dirty clothes that got a bit crumpled and rose up the ankles a bit. It is part of growing up and having the physical freedom to be.......... just a kid.

Judges* have a great deal of experience on sniffing out bullshit.

I can tell you are overthinking this. It is never a bad thing before a battle to heighten the senses and get the adrenaline flowing. But don't fret. Harness that energy and get calm and collected for a good outcome.

*You won't go in front of a judge, but I am using that term for ease.

humus · 14/07/2023 21:55

We’re dealing with my husband’s narcissistic x who is unable to tell the truth, lies, manipulates and has be harassing us through the court for years. The court has seen through her lies, but cafcass always seem to frame it as both parents in conflict rather than abuse by 1 persistent liar.

Mari9999 · 14/07/2023 21:55

@xx200xx

Don't get caught up in trying to disprove something that is not an issue before the court. Again, the court could probably tell you in advance exactly what both of you are going to say. Mothers and or fathers don't lose custody of their children because the angry ex says that the children are unkempt. There will probably be a 50/50 split.

peekabooer20 · 14/07/2023 22:07

My ex did the same. I was convinced that the judge would believe him, he seemed to all the way through, but in the final hearing it was obvious, they saw through it all. Just keep telling the truth. Narcissists lie so much they trip themselves up with them. I was so scared my ex would get 50/50 or even full residence but they said no way because my child was also a baby but because of the high level of conflict. I know it's hard but try not to worry too much, when the child is pre-school and there is conflict, 50/50 is not the norm despite what many people on here seem to think x

Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 22:09

Thankyou it's just so hard to constant worrying. I love my son so much and only want the best for him. Im finding hard being bombarded with lies and his solicitor writing to my solicitor with these lies. Just wish it was all over with!

@Thunderisntnicebythebeach he started claming benefits the moment cms got set up and stopped working (supposedly) he works for his brother so I think he's getting cash In hand. He never pays on time. He's claiming he's having to buy my son new clothes as clothes don't fit him. However that's a lie.

OP posts:
Original poster
xx200xx · 14/07/2023 22:12

peekabooer20 · 14/07/2023 22:07

My ex did the same. I was convinced that the judge would believe him, he seemed to all the way through, but in the final hearing it was obvious, they saw through it all. Just keep telling the truth. Narcissists lie so much they trip themselves up with them. I was so scared my ex would get 50/50 or even full residence but they said no way because my child was also a baby but because of the high level of conflict. I know it's hard but try not to worry too much, when the child is pre-school and there is conflict, 50/50 is not the norm despite what many people on here seem to think x

We are constantly having different Judges so I just hope they can see straight through him. I have a barrister representing me what helps a little more, he has a solicitor.

My solicitor thinks he will more likely get 50:50 but I don't get how this would work especially when my son starts school as we live an hour drive away.

OP posts:
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